Macca

Group-think does happen but the mob is often right whilst many minority views are wrong. And vice-versa. As for Frost ... the undue criticism has died down but the residual effect lingers. In my opinion. Now you may disagree with my opinion but I say 'Vive la Difference'

We couldn't be further apart on this issue. Let's agree to disagree.

Every player breaks team rules, same as they all make errors. May himself broke a team rule by berating a player rhe way he did. Frost went up to spoil when he had other options yeah? How many times do we see that happen? Constantly I'd say Short passing in the backline traditionally was against team rules and that's what May did in the first half. Causing a direct turnover By the way, that is the 6th time I have made mention of that horrible May clanger yet no one else here wants to talk about it. I know what I saw and May was out of line. Are you happy for him to do it again next Sunday (in the same way for a prolonged period) Genuine question and I'd appreciate an answer. You quoted me so now it's my turn. I'll ask you again and again if I have to.

I have always found any kind of abuse towards umpires to be utterly pointless. I have never done it and never will. In fact, I have never disputed even 1 umpiring decision in my entire life My motto is to accept the umpires decision and move on. And that will never change. That attitude served me well in my playing days so I don't see why I should think differently as a spectator. Others can do as they please. If they want to go to the footy and scream at the umpires all day, that's fine with me. It is just not my cup of tea.

... will mean this place will go into absolute meltdown. Hoping for a win and if we come to play we can quite obviously win but I'm not sure we've played consistently well in one game this year. So play well and up to expectations and we'll win. Wouldn't put my hard-earned on it though.

Excellent point ... and that won't be the end of it either as I'm reckoning that we'll make some more moves with the coaching structure at seasons end (with Goodwin staying of course) And we'll probably move up to 10 players on and maybe 1 or 2 more than that if we trade aggressively in the off-season. As for the current skills that we witness ... a massive improvement is needed. Also, we weren't switched on for the first 6 games this season so that's another issue. And the gameplan looks outdated. So a lot has to happen if we're to climb the ladder again. The OP made a number of good points but our reality reveals other problems that can't be ignored. I'm neither confident nor despondent about our chances next season. But there is a lot of work ahead if we're to win more games than we lose.

Yes ... happy to agree to disagree. Building a great culture is possibly harder than building a great list. It's a long slow process. Respect is the big key ... mutual respect. All done out of view of the public. Airing dirty laundry is counter-productive. Neeld came flying in weilding a big stick and talking tough. Massive fail eventuated. So it's tricky. May can play but he still has a lot to prove ... and if he can become a difference-maker on and off the field I'll be the first to acknowledge that. Still got to do it.

Are you serious? Frost cops it no end. Much like Oscar. He's not a great player but so what! We don't have an endless supply of ready made replacements so errors are going to occur from the lesser-lights So a better player and a more senior player in May kicking the ball directly to an opposition player should attract more criticism. But it didn't so there's your answer. Group-think at work again. And I acknowledge that May can play but that isn't what this discussion is about. May overstepped the mark and needs to adhere to team rules like any other player.

If he pulls his head in all will be fine. I used his own errors as an example of how counter-productive berating a teammate can be. If it was Jones instead of Frost do you think the same pro-May argument exists in the same form? I don't.

I don't think so nifty ... 'group-think' rules on the internet. So most who have a minority view are not often apt to speak up. You reckon this thread is a good sample size? I don't. i see it as a chance for most to just vent away. Pound of flesh just happens to be the current whipping boy - Frost

So true ... but without robust debate, it would be a dull old place

Player-speak May was out of line and needs to pull his own head in End of story

So May berates Frost for 'apparently' breaking team rules (an errant spoil that went in the wrong direction) but one could mount an argument that May broke an even bigger team rule. And in the process quite possibly motivated the opposition "Have a look at this rabble, arguing amongst themselves. Let's run all over them fellas" You never give a sucker an even break.

And there you go again with the scapegoating It is now the fault of Jones & Viney. Weeks ago ir was Goidwin and prior to that it was all Cameron Schwab's fault. The reasons why we're 4 & 10 are many. It isn't one thing and never would be one thing And if you had more experience in these matters you'd know that.

No I am not having an off day at all You're scapegoating Frost for starters. What about all the numerous errors made by all the other players Did you see May's almighty clanger for instance? How about you call May out on that one. May's outburst is probably a symptom of a much greater problem (player or club or both) But you can't see that because you are too interested in your pound of flesh. Put on your cool head and you'll see it my way.

So it's Frost's fault again for not immediately admitting fault? Maybe Frost was thinking about May's errant short pass at the time. Again, who the hell does May think he is. Did you at any stage of the May outburst want him to stop? I'm betting you did and if so, why excuse the behavior?

Well if he's going to dish it out he has to expect some pushback. How else do you think it works? It just ends with the May dummy-spit?

I just reckon it's a bad look and no good comes from it. Not sure we've heard the end of it either. I wouldn't be assuming that May is seen as the worlds best teammate either He's played 5 games and has a lot to prove.

I have seen what you've seen as well ... in case you weren't aware I'm also a demon supporter. You make too many excuses and are the scapegoat king around here. May's outbirst serves no good at all. There are better ways to go about it. And embarrassing a fellow player isn't it May lost his rag and shouldn't have.

But we can't be selective with these things. What if was Gawn berating Jones (for 10 minutes) Is that ok too? Your argument has no weight.

I'm not denying that Frost didn't make an error but so did every other player during the game (including May) They are called clangers. Should May have run down the field and berated T-Mac for dropping an easy mark? You can't have players berating other players during the game - it's not on. And May continued on for what seened like an eternity . . Frost had every right right to tell May to shove it and that's what he possibly did Who the hell does May think he is anyway? In the aftemath Frost mentioned that it is 'All gpod' but he's just smoothing over the waters. As I said, any error that May now makes should therefore be highlighted. So go to it folks

In how things actually work at clubs

Read my post directly above You lack consistsncy and experience Wyl ... love your passion but you are wrong in this instance You have to be consistent with these sorts of things. So be consistent May therefore deserves a spray hinself if we are being consistent but where does is stop? Put aside your anger about the clubs current fortunes and keep a cool head.

And if you lot want to have a consistent argument you should be calling out Frost for not giving May a spray when he (May) needlessly turned the ball over with an errant short pass earlier in the game. So how about it?

You don't fix it by making things worse. Do you even know how these things work? You sound like you're just angry at another loss and you want your pound of flesh. In a crisis it's best to keep a cool head. So hopefully May gets called out for his stupid outburst. He looked more like a juvenile than captaincy material.