deejammin'

Didn't Kennedy's team lose that game?

Clearly this is all Mark Neeld's fault...

The Afl has allowed Luke Ball to manipulate the draft to end up at Collingwood, it has also allowed Carlton to rort the salary cap with Judd. Seems to me the big boys get away with whatever they want, but should Melbourne FC want to do a Judd like deal to keep Scully or manipulate the draft to get Viney at a later pick the AFL comes down hard. The Draft and Salary cap are the only things keeping this comp remotely even, big clubs have boundless money compared to the minnows of the comp to spend on coaches, medicos, sports science, facilities, end of season altitude training trips. By letting the big boys abuse the only two systems in place it makes it impossible for small clubs to compete without begging members for money, the AFL should be ashamed.

He also thought any coach who inherited the list would make finals this year... just sayin' Martin is far from gone, Moloney is testing FA, Jurrah is a completely unique circumstance and would be happening at any Melbourne based club, Davey is staying, Dunn is unannounced and Gysberts situation has been said by the club and coach to have been reported badly. Of your list it is possible only one will leave seemingly as a reaction to Neeld, Jurrah would be gone regardless, which means 4 of your list may not be going anywhere, hardly carnage, also if Gys, Martin or Dunn do go it may well be for a smart trade. Funny how quickly carnage becomes good list management and (if you are a real Melbourne supporter) how quickly you may warm to Neeld and the possible new inclusions if we win some games next year.

You don't have to believe that they have a better list but it is true. Their top players are miles ahead of ours, Sandilands was better than Jamar in his AA year, now that his form has plateaued Sandi is way ahead, Pav is miles ahead of all our players, there are plenty of other players on their list plenty better than ours. Last year in an injury ravaged season they had more wins than us, had more wins against top 8 sides and as I wrote in another thread overall we lost to the top four by 350 points more than Freo last year, discounting 186 its still 164 points. This shows how much closer to the top teams Freo was, how much of a better list they were and how they were still way ahead of us.

Totally agree, when you attack the 'club' not the admin, coaching group or the players you are attacking 150 years of history, the foundation of the AFL Football, all the former players, every member of the club from the bootstrappers to the cheer squad to the volunteers, the billets, the bugler as well as all of the fans. People should watch what they say. It drove me mad when people were calling our club irrelevent and soft. The club is more than the team, for the record a president who fought cancer and fought for youth in a public way is far from soft, the way the club adopted a young Barassi after his father was killed was far from soft, the way the club rallied around T. Broadbridge was far from soft. The way the club support LJ was far from soft, the way the club responded to racism allegations was far from soft, the way we dumped Energy watch was far from soft! This club is so much more than what is going on right now on field.

Who have we thrown away? Moloney left us as a rfa which is within his rights to do. Jurrah pulled a shifty one out of contract, which he cold have done anyway. Apart from that the rest is speculation, and the club and Neeld have already said that it has been reported poorly, far too early to make that call. I also agree with RR that apart from Rivers very little high quality will be getting "thrown away" should our uncontracted players be let go.

Yes i understand, sorry to bother you.

He also totally accepted that Brock McLean left Melbourne for Carlton due to tanking without asking about the obvious hypocrisy inherent in that statement, he obviously has an agenda. There is no way, with Gary Lyon's media connections that he didn't speak to Ross and there is no way if Melbourne were given wind that Ross wanted to speak to them that they wouldn't, he was our first choice coach! You can believe what you want, but you are wrong.

Pavlich, Sandilands, Mundy, Barlow, Hill and Fyfe, all 10 times better than our best players, I would argue Pav is a thousand times better. Some of these missed most of last season, but all are clearly centre to a far better list. I think you are letting the raw statistics cloud what actually happened. Freo beat Brisbane (same as us), Adelaide (we beat them by more), Beat North by 30 points (they beat us by 40), The Bulldogs (they beat us by 70 in a clutch game), Port Adelaide (we beat them by a similar margin once and then lost to them), Essendon (by a similar margin to us), Gold Coast (ditto), Sydney (who we drew with). Freo beat almost every team that we did, with the exception of Richmond who we lost to later in the season having beaten them once, while also beating a couple we didn't in North and the Bulldogs. Far more interesting is how they performed against the top 4 teams. lost to Geelong by 11 (we lost by 186), West Coast by 30 and 1 (we lost by 104 and 48) Hawthorn by 22 and 51 (we lost by 55 and 54), Collingwood by 80 (we lost by 88) Overall we lost to the top four by 350 points more than Freo, discounting 186 its still 164 points. This shows how much closer to the top teams Freo was, how much of a better list they were and how they were still way ahead of us in an injury ravaged season. Freo's poor performances (usually coinciding with the loss of Sandilands) was being beaten by North and Richmond badly and amazingly smashed by us by 89pts at the MCG in a performance that ruined their year. After Melbourne won that game against Freo in round 13(almost the high point of the year putting us in contention for the finals) we won three games, over Richmond, Port and Gold Coast, losing 8 of the final 11, winning only 1 of the final 6 despite playing cellar dwellers Gold Coast, Port Adelaide and Richmond. Basically we capitulated. Anyway, Freo beat basically all the teams we beat, were far closer to the top teams, had far more stars and far more injuries and were still ahead of us on the ladder. The only thing we had on them at all was our victory in round 13, and we failed to replicate that form for the rest of the season. There is no doubt Lyon inherited a far superior list to Neeld.

I was suprised we ended up with Neeld, but there was a field of 4 teams looking for coaches at the end of last year, and all ended up with unproven coaches. Leigh Matthews, Paul Roos, Mick Malthouse, Rodney Eade and Gary Ayres were all available (according to people on this board, I have stated before the reasons I think all of them were unrealistic/impossible/not the right fit) and yet Adelaide, Western Bulldogs and St Kilda all ended up with first year coaches. Weird huh? Must all be so incompetent that they didn't speak to those guys. edit: Spelling

i think we'll agree to disagree, and I've covered this at length in two threads now, but I am confident that my confidence is not misplaced. I have no doubt several people affiliated with ours and other clubs would have spoken to Ross and his management and all been told the same thing, that he was staying at St Kilda. Blindsighting your management is unprecendented, what happened to Harvey was unprecented, the money Freo are paying Ross is unrealistic for Melbourne, but even if we had been able to match it there was no opportunity to do so, Lyon did all this on his own,m behind closed doors, possibly before we were even looking for a coach. If you want to continue to believe people like Mike Sheahan that this club is out to destroy itself by not even trying options then go ahead, I am confident he is a dingbat.

Fuschia you are welcome to your opinion as I am welcome to mine, but where in my post did I say that I thought it was spiritual or uplifting? I said it was "a bit of fun" if you are going to quote there is a button for it and you might want to do your research. Also, Dunstall and Brayshaw rib Gary over everything, every year, its what they do, they rib him over crying when he did his knee, yo gabba gabba, the list goes on, those boys would give him grief every time, and I think you are assuming he was embarrassed, I have heard him say he likes it. I hardly think those two (JB and the Chief) should be the standard by which we measure what MFC does, they hate the club. Finally it is not overwhelming in this thread, the count of those who have a clear opinion ( I generally counted those who were sarcastic as against the bugler although its hard to tell) was 15-12 against, hardly overwhelming, the same no. probably want to get rid of Neeld on this board. Obviously I didn't express myself clearly, and I'm not having a go at you I really like your contribution on this board and find myself agreeing with you 90% of the time. I am sorry that it embarrasses you, but I for one am for live music and establishing club traditions, I do agree with the suggestions that he remove the blazer, go back to playing from the cheer squad and not just for the MCC however. I enjoy it, my parents who often go to the footy enjoy it, my gf enjoys it and my mates don't give me s*&^ about it (swans and hawthorn supporters) so obviously I have a different experience to you.

You find our team song embarassing? Do you find the trumpet embarassing in all situations or just when it plays our tune? Seriously mate, Freo's song is embarassing, but there was a good chunk of the MCG belting it out last night.

There is so much wrong with this thread its ridiculous, I like the Bugler. First off, there are at least 3 different people who do the bugling.... Second, to those criticising the performance I think all 3 play well, with good intonation and rhythm with a nice tone, all you keyboard heroes might want to try playing with a single mic in the middle of the MCG without being able to properly hear yourself while the music echoes out of the speakers around the ground with various delays. Thirdly, we follow a sport where all teams run out to show tunes, spirituals and stolen national anthems with ridiculous lyrics and smash through crepe paper and you're challenging the solo call of a trumpet! In case you weren't aware, when armies went to battle they usually had a trumpet and a snare drum, not a 1850's American folk tune jazzed up to sound like a show tune from a 60s musical (I love our song but seriously get your hand off it!) and they never, ever ran through some crepe paper! Fourth, Enter Sandman is a song about sleep and death, you seriously want to encourage our players to be more disinterested than they already are, also not all footy supporters love rock and roll, the footy supporters all being rock and roll loving pub junkies stereotype is far from accurate, there are families and many people of different backgrounds with diverse interests, Enter Sandman is not our team song. Lastly, at a time where the standard for footy entertainment is Meatloaf the bugler is a welcome relief! Its a point of difference, its our club song that we all love, and its a bit of fun, if you want to hate something have a look at the standard of football we put out, not the pre-game entertainment.

The problem with those who are so vehemently against Neeld on this site is that they are looking for things to pin on him. At this stage this is an unconfirmed rumour on Channel 7, no statement from the club or Davey. We have already heard that Neeld and the club have said the way that the Gysberts and Cook situations were reported were sensationalist and innaccurate, there would be a possibility this is in the same basket. I do not deny i have been dissapointed with Neeld and the team this season, but at the start of the year he put the players on notice, said they had this year to earn their spots and now those that failed to are being removed, Neeld is owed this right as a new coach. He will be answerable to his list next season and will come under huge scrutiny should we perform like this year again and rightfully so. But to attack him for doing what he said he would do is ludicrous. Finally should Davey move on or retire thanks for a great MFC career and many great memories you have been one of my faves for a very long time.

WYL more often than not I enjoy your contribution to this site, even though we don't always agree, but on this issue I think you are wrong, I know multiple people from Melbourne would have spoken to Lyon personally. The fact is he said he was staying at the Saints, whilst simultaneously having done a deal with Freo. Who knows when? Maybe early in the season while Bailey still had a chance to keep his job, as I have said in the other thread on this topic Lyon was playing a game with no rules, there were no offers and counter offers, no way for any club to know what was going on except Freo, it is guess work to say Melbourne had a chance to usurp them and it is naive to think no-one from our club spoke to him. He lied, Freo were underhanded, most of the football clubs and admins were upset by the way it unfolded. This one is not the clubs fault.

The fact is I doubt you know what happened with Gary and Ross, I seriously doubt that no person representing MFC ever contacted Ross personally, I also don't doubt for a second that he said he was staying at the Saints. He wanted Freo, he got Freo, behind his managements back. MFC would have spoken to him, deal with it.

Totally devastated, after all this club has put in and the emotional investment of the members in him over his journey this feels like he's throwing it all in our faces. I have no problem with wanting to leave, but this has been done in a completely wrong way. Also if anyone thinks PA would put an article like that on their website, before Melbourne have commented and not be trying to get him on their list you're mental. Clearly they are making a play, PA had no reason to write anything....

Improvement: No distractions, no deaths of incredibly important club legends who mean the world to this club, its supporters, the football world in general and reach foundation. No racism allegations, no bombshells about Jurrah during the season. Just the MFC doing its very best. Also it wouldn't hurt if another Vic club could implode catastrophically and take the media heat off us for awhile. No BS leadership group or captaincy stories. Besides this, Grimes, Trengove, Tapscott, Blease, T McDonald, Clark, Watts, Howe, Jones, Frawley, Mckensie, Garland, Rivers, Sylvia, Nicho, Jamar, Martin or Gawn to have full, injury free productive seasons where they show consistant form and some improvement. Taggert, Tynan, Fitzy, Evans, hopefully Jurrah, maybe Gysberts, to have an injury free run at showing their wares for the seniors. Make or break year for Davey, I would hope he could find a role in the side and play well. We sure as hell could use some leadership and his best form would be great to play as a small forward pinch hitting as an outside mid/half back flank. Or we could see him traded for something.... Viney and a few others to come in and bolster our midfield. This is where I can see improvement coming from, also if it doesn't I would hope we have enough on our list to be able to continue to drop players to Casey who don't perform.

Nice one Tatu, its such a hard finals series to pick, far more difficult than past years, apart from our consesus on Hawthorn we have so many different results, yet I can plausibly see each coming true, what a great year of footy! (Melbourne obviously excluded) Macca, I suck at tipping as my love for MFC tends to cloud my ability to tip against their best interests, as soon as our season was completely over in the 2nd half of this year I tipped much better. Again, I can see everything you have tipped plausibly happening, its that close a season.

A whole lot of retrospect, cull debates and gazing into the past and future on this board at the minute, so heres the challenge. We all claim we know football on here, but rather than doing the usual debates on whether exuming the corpse of a proven premiership coach and having it sit in the coaches box would have been better than Neeld this year lets see some real footy knowledge.. Pick the winners of each finals game, with margin all the way to the GF, obviously if you get this round wrong you will have to post an updated draw, albeit at the loss of some street cred. So at the risk of shooting any cred I may have in the foot here's my prediction: Hawthorn to beat Collingwood by 46 pts Sydney over Adelaide by 18 Geelong over Freo by 37 West Coast over North by 21 Collingwood over West Coast by 15pts Geelong over Adelaide by 26 Hawthorn over Geelong by 6 Sydney over Collingwood by 12pts Hawthorn over Sydney by 32pts There goes nothing, should be fun at the very least.......

Where are your facts coming from? I have it on good authority that all those candidates were at least contacted, (except Matthews who is way past it and no-one is considering him), not necessarily officially (as most often occurs at football clubs). Roos was not interested in leaving his media gig, see above for Lyon and Malthouse, our club wanted Neeld more than Sanderson. You are speculating without foundation, show me proof that these candidates weren't considered.

BH we have agreed many times in the past but this thread frustrates me in the extreme. No.1 how do you know G. Lyon or other members of the selection panel didn't talk to Ross directly? Can you categorically say that no-one from MFC had a conversation with the man? Lyon was playing a dangerous game, if anyone had got wind of his Freo deal before it got through serious S*&^ would have hit the fan with Freo, Harvey, Lyon's Management and St Kilda all involved heavily in a shifty dealing he was trying to rush through before they were aware of it. Lyon could hardly have played Melbourne and Freo in a bidding war behind all of these parties backs so the most likely scenario is that Melbourne spoke to both Lyon's management officially and Lyon unofficially and were told the same thing, that he was staying at St Kilda. Maybe we offered less money than Freo and thats why he never considered us, maybe its the list or maybe we never discussed money as both the coach himself and his management said he was unavailable whatever the reason I don't think the MFC is at fault or didn't do due diligence on Lyon. No. 2, You seem to approve of the club engaging in illegal or immoral practices to secure coaches etc. In the examples above these practices backfired heinously for Carlton and Richmond, Carlton has had the worst period in the clubs history (which to me looks set to continue), while Richmond has played less finals in the past 30 years than Fitzroy and hasn't looked close to a flag for a very long time! Richmond looks like it is turning around in a time where it has stuck by its unproven coach and made fair trades and drafts to build its list. Lastly, many have forgotten how frustrated Collingwood were with Malthouse in 2009, the whole Buckley/Malthouse saga emerged as Eddie and co thought Mick was heading in the wrong direction and saw this as the best plan for future success. The whole Malthouse contract was hardly the raging success Collingwood thought it would be. 2010 was a suprise, which emerged on the back of a perfect storm at Geelong (G.Ablett and Bomber) and the ball bouncing the wrong way in the first Grand Final. For mine Geelong is the best team of the past 5 years with 3 premierships, 4 Grand Finals and a Prelim and it acheived this by sticking fat with its under siege coach (Bomber), keeping its integrity and sticking by both Thompson and Ablett when they were screwing them. Then took a risk on a young unproven coach, who won a Premiership in his first year. This is the example we should follow. Geelong have shown you can have integrity in your off-field plans and enjoy success, in fact they are still way ahead of both Richmond and Carlton whose shady dealings continue to hurt them. They will also [censored] Ross Lyon's Freo in yet another win for integrity. Also, we couldn't have got Chris Scott he was already contracted at Geelong and coaching in a finals series, your timing is wrong. Also Matthews is past it, Malthouse was definately approached and wasn't ready/was off limits/had legal and financial implications far beyond us. Neeld hasn't had a great year, but I don't think that any of the examples you have mentioned show a lack of due process.

Also not bringing in players who are playing well in the VFL at the expense of players who are losing in the AFL may well get us investigated by the afl if one of our players shoots their mouth off in a couple of years