deejammin'

Clearly the FD rate Tomlinson and Smith ahead of OMac for our second/third KPD. With May, Lever, Tomlinson, Smith and both Petty and TMac who can potentially be sent back I totally understand why we would be looking to trade OMac. All things going well it looks like 42 will be the number for a list this year so our list looks like this: Delist: Dunkley, Wagner, Wagner Retire Bennell Trade: OMac, ANB, Preuss If all seven go through (and I know TMac may well be traded along with some others depending on the offers but these three look likely) then we have 5 list positions to fill and the following picks: 23,47,62,63,83 I would think we would be aiming on pick upgrades with most of these trades and perhaps even packaging them up to a team with an academy prospect for an even higher pick. If OMac upgrades one of our picks in the 60s to 40s-50s we’ll be doing well. I imagine we would be hoping to get a couple of second rounders and a third rounder at least with the three players we have on the table, which would be a significant upgrade on our current draft prospects, who knows maybe we can even get to the point where we package up a couple of second rounders for a late first?

So Goodwin still has a better finals record than Chris Scott over the last three years. Geelong need to get over WC or Collingwood to draw even....? 2018-2020 Finals record: C Scott 1-4 S Goodwin 2-1 lol #straightsetscats

I hear what you’re saying but three years versus four years on a contract doesn’t mean as much these days. If we get to the third year and Jack’s not working out at Melbourne, then a trade will probably happen, hell players have asked for trades one year into a contract, if he’s ruined his body through injury he will retire like a number of other players, if a four year contract gets him over the line I think it’s worth it. I think Jack is a high quality player and individual that sets super high standards in behaviour, training and attack on the ball and that he will make our club and team better. I think he will play well for us, heart and soul for all four years and possibly beyond, but I really don’t think four years versus three will make much difference if things go wrong. Nathan Jones sounds like it’s as much about him coaching from the list as it is about playing, this idea is become common and will get more common with the reduction in the soft FD cap. Burgoyne at Hawthorn, Hodge at Brisbane, Mitchell at West Coast, Heath Shaw to GWS?? it’s a common thing clubs do to get quality people and leadership in-house. Nathan is a club legend, a good person and a good leader who is intelligent enough football wise and emotionally to be a good coach. We’ve all seen the hard way what happens when you let your senior players go elsewhere on mass, Bruce, Yze, J McDonald, Green all left our club at a similar time to be assets to other coaching panels, including premierships, as our list bottomed out and floundered for leadership. We still have a relatively young list with relatively few experienced leaders. Keeping Nathan is a no brainer and if the best way to do it is one year on the list then great.

Gawn didn’t play in the dogs game. Preuss did. And there are two ways to look at that game, one is that ruck men aren’t important and that Dunkley broke even, the other is that we failed to capitalise on this opportunity in the ruck. Preuss and the mids lacked connection in that game, he was constantly hitting it to where our mids were not and eventually Preuss resorted to just taking it out of the ruck and booting it forward, which hurt us as well as we allowed the dogs so much rebound off half-back and freedom in transition. The fact is we should’ve played better in every facet of the game against the dogs and Preuss’s previous game against North was excellent! Good ruckmen are key to Port, Brisbane, Geelong, West Coast and Collingwood and while Richmonds rucks aren’t setting the world on fire they still play them. That’s the top 6 teams all having key ruckman, many would argue Nick Nat is one of the most influential players in the AFL due to his ruck craft! We are a better team when a dominant ruckman is connecting with our mids and unless we bring in some good talls to replace TMac and Preuss we can’t afford to take the risk of trading them both. If we have Gawn, Jackson and Weideman as our only ruck/tall forward options next year we’re taking a huge risk, one injury and the good teams are going to exploit our lack of height, both in the ruck and forward, especially if we keep bombing the ball forward under pressure. If we trade TMac and Preuss we need to be bringing in at least one key forward/back up ruck, and if we can’t, we should keep Preuss for insurance. Unless of course we get a ridiculous offer (like a Brent Daniels) for him and even then we should still be bringing in a backup ruck somehow.

I mean, if we could do that it’d be pretty amazing. Obviously I don’t think we’d be able to trade Preuss for him, but from a whole list perspective if we could trade TMac, Preuss and bring in Cameron and draft a young tall we’d be going well. I’d say it’s more likely we bring in a different less high profile tall forward as everyone is saying Cameron is involved with Geelong. My main point was just if it looks like we will end the trade period not being able to bring in at least one tall for T Mac then I don’t think we should trade Preuss. Unless someone offered something ridiculous of course. We really need talls on our list and while Jackson is great it’s too much to ask a second year player to be both the number 2 key position forward AND back up ruck.

I think part of this is probably that Preuss wants game time and so the club is checking what they could get for him as a matter of due diligence. The reality is if we trade both Preuss and TMac we are leaving ourselves exposed for talls. Sure neither has set the world on fire in the role we really need to fill, that of tall key position forward, but we were relatively lucky for injuries this season, I’d be very worried if the only tall forwards on our list were Weideman, Jackson and Brown. That leaves us very thin on the ground should one of them get injured or if Gawn goes down. From a list perspective we need a tall forward anyway, trade both Preuss and TMac and you really need to be bringing in at least 2 talls, at least one of whom can play ruck. If we trade both Preuss and TMac and don’t get talls in one long term injury to Gawn, Weideman or Jackson and it’s curtains for 2021. We can’t leave ourselves that exposed. This deal only gets done if we can find a way to get a Cameron type forward.

If only Demetriou had called Bomber to let him know the cops were onto him... he could’ve destroyed the evidence and relied on being a hard done-by good bloke to get the lowest possible penalty....

The idea that so soon after such a massive scandal that brought the sport into disrepute, threatened to ruin 3 seasons, was found by the head WORLD anti- doping body to have been against the rules of world sport, that [censored] off, frustrated and bored the fans to no end and that may still have a large amount to play out with regard to the health of the players involved and their families long term, (let alone the impact on the integrity of the competition during the period doping players were aloud to play)... the idea that so soon after all of this the AFL would even consider letting Hird have ANY official role within the sport is beyond astounding, the fact it is a coaching position is just beyond stupid! What an immoral farce this league has become.

Perhaps Jobe's Brownlow is in a storage facility with the extensive documentation of Essendons drug program, fully filled out ASADA forms listing all the "legal" substances taken and letters to Bruce Reid asking for details on Thymomodulin?If only Jobe had looked for it earlier this all could have been avoided! .....Alternatively perhaps Jobe is an unrepentant drug cheat.

Happy to have different views mate. I tend to think CAS has more integrity than Essendon and the AFL and nothing I have read, heard or seen makes me think Essendon are anything but guilty. Im a diehard Melbourne man however and now he's here I'll be barracking hard for Melksham as I do all our players.

Saty I think it's disgusting that the whole thing has been reported and discussed in such a biased way that the whole issue has been distorted and an obvious attempt to cheat has been treated with sympathy rather than the objective view it deserved. I don't think or mean that anyone is disgusting, sorry if I offended or upset anyone and I'm sorry my words could be interpreted that way mate. I would have been better served by saying "distressing".

I also think they are guilty clearly. And I understand that the younger players faced a tougher circumstance than players like Jobe. But the treatment of this issue in the media and by some on this forum, being so desperate to excuse the players at every turn, never admitting to any of the facts of the case, has been truly disgusting. Its interesting to note the difference in the way our media has treated the Essendon players who couldn't come forward for fear of senior players and club champions versus Russian athletes whose families are threatened by a dangerous regime. Those poor poor Essendon players.

I can imagine it. But ultimately it's the same argument as the Nuremberg trials, doing something you think is probably wrong but accepting it and doing it because those more senior tell you to is actually not an excuse. I don't doubt the younger players were more naive, or heavily influenced by those senior players, but ultimately when it comes to drugs in sport if you take the substance and don't report it you have no leg to stand on. A lot of Essendon players could have been saved a lot of time and money if just one player had been brave enough to report. Some players clearly said no, look at Zaharakis. (Sorry Ted tried to quote you and got my own)

Interestingly none of the Essendon players managersor the AFLPA were kept fully informed by their players on the program at Essendon either. So while I see your point, the players only have themselves to blame, they were fully able to fill out their ASADA forms, speak to Bruce Reid or speak to their managers but chose to maintain secrecy for a competitive edge, that is not innocent behaviour and I don't see why so many are so keen to excuse it.

It seems to me young AFL players say no to their bosses all the time. They say no to contracts, they say no to staying if they have a better offer, they say no to giving the club an idea of their intentions, some really talented players say no to different roles, they say no to staying an hour away from their hometown, we had one who lied to a club champion who was dying of cancer for a whole year to take a big contract. The good ones say no to booze with friends, unhealthy food, staying out late, etc etc. But when it comes to saying no to taking an enormous amount of injections that contravene your ASADA/AFL training, aren't administered by a doctor or nurse, aren't told to the club doctor or put on ASADA forms before matches it's all of a sudden impossible to say no. I think you should get your hand off it.

Wow, you are a hair splitter aren't you. CAS the worlds leading authority and top arbiter of doping in professional sport found to a "comfortable satisfaction", CAS's determinant of guilt for all its cases that "all players were significantly at fault" for violating the code by taking a nominated banned substance which was Tb4. You can argue legal wording semantics all you want but the result is the same. All doping cases worldwide are judged by comfortable satisfaction, this is the standard by which guilt is judged in doping in professional sport. Tb4 was the substance the players were accused of taking that violated the code. The highest court in the world on drugs in sport found to the worldwide standard for the leading code in drugs in sport that Melksham and his colleagues took TB4. Melksham= Banned drug cheat

Great post, I missed this before I posted my less detailed one above. Got fired up by the ignorance of Saty's comments on the subject and skipped ahead. Beautifully put Bing.

Thymosin Beta 4 has been categorically proven in numerous research studies to promote advanced healing in human muscle, organ and bone tissue. A simple google search will provide you with all you need. It's main medical function when administered in the large injected dosages like the Essendon players received is to help with the quicker healing of heart tissue after major heart attacks, it also promotes the same kind of rapid healing in all muscle tissue. It is banned because the majority of increase in athletes fitness comes from making small breaks in muscle tissue due to excercise and having them repair stronger. Tb4 speeds this process up to superhuman levels. Saty I respect your love of the Mfc and your enormous contribution to most threads, particularly training. But Jake Melksham was found guilty of taking Tb4 in large dosages to aid his athletic performance at a time when it was banned. He is a drug cheat, he's done his time and will be welcomed back by MFC supporters but no amount of blurring lines because you are unaware of details of peptides like Tb4 changes that fact.