Maldonboy38

Tried to resist the temptation to respond so early before 2012 but could not help myself. B : Strauss Frawley Rivers HB: MacDonald Garland Tapscott C : Jones Moloney Bail HF: Petterd Cook Watts F : Green Jurrah Davey R : Jamar Trengove Grimes IC: Martin McKenzie Howe Gysberts E : Gawn, Blease, NOTE : I am worried about the future of both Scully and Sylvia. Obviously both would be in our best 22 if they are around in 2012. As much I would hate to do so, I reckon Howe and McKenzie would come out of the 22 for Scully and Sylvia. I might have to have a rethink - Jordie is a must in our best 22. .

Our effort today was OK. We were physically stronger over the ball than we have been in a long time, especially against a strong bodied team like the Hawks. Both our defensive and attacking spread was lazy. I was shouting this at the screen when Tim Wason said the same thing. And defending from so far back highlights this situation. By the time we have run and spread up the entire ground a few times, even the fittest teams/players would struggle. Our kicking inside forward 50 today consisted mostly of bombs, because by half way through the 3rd quarter our players are exhausted. This is not a fitness issue - it is a game plan issue. We have to defend the middle of the ground better. Placing many players behind the ball when play is on the wing is only a situation to execute when we need to close the game down. Watts should not be gap filler in EVERY game. I closely examined the Hawks at the stoppages. They defend the area of the ground where the ball is, not where it could be. If a ball up is on the wing, their defensive structure defends that space. Their midfielders, half forward etc.. set up a zone 40 metres either side of the ball. Yes, they also keep 2 or 3 players way back in defence totally unmanned so they can do that switch they do so well, but they don't add too many to that area while play is on the wing. Our defensive structure of starting too far back is as week as Knight's poor defensive structuree at Essendon in 2010. I am a Dean bBiley fan but this is not a winning formula and will be obliterated by finals football. . .

6. Jones 5. Martin 4. Petterd 3. Rivers 2. Howe 1. Bate .

The Good Jones. Stef Martin. Matthew Bate. Our physical effort (with some horrible exceptions) The Bad Ability to keep it inside our forward 50 Our handball to a close, stationary target, where a Hawks player swoops in on the run and they carry it forward with ease. Hawthorn's uncontested possession count. Brad Green has to stop flying for marks that spoil his team mates clear advantage in a marking contest. The Ugly Fumbling. Even the smooth, efficient kills of Trengove were fumbly today. Unforced turnovers. Maric did a shocker on the southern half forward line near the boundary but there were many of these. Marking targets inside 50 .

I really hope Howe is not the sub. He is a natural forward and his disposal on both sides of his body is really good. His tackling has been both surprising and effective. He could be one of those to man up across our half forward line and stop their switch. I wonder if Nev Jetta's pace could also be used cross our half forwad line to intercept and frustrate thier chipping game. A great comment from above by Jumbo: The Hawks niggle, punch, scrag, bump - anything to unsettle the opposition. I can see Moloney, Jones, Sylvia Green, Jamar, Tapscott being able to handle this but not many others. Jurrah, Watts, Garland, Strauss, Nicholson, Scully, Gysberts, Howe:- can they play good footy for four quarters with this sort of attention? IMO, not for four quarters just yet. If they actually do it for four quarters, I reckon we win the game. I also wonder if we have left behind that stupid strategy of no-one in our forward line when we win it at half-back or midfield? The Carlton game, the North game, and many others. Our midfielders had no problem winning the ball but looked up to see no options. Or, they handball 8 times under pressure and turn it over. We must do the bullying. .

Great thread. Good to focus on a game of footy for a change. All that Malthouse stuff, clubs finances, selling games interstate etc... leaves me cold. The main issue for the Dees is the midfield. Hawks have bigger bodies than our boys and have, over the past few seasons monstered us at stoppages. That shocker earlier this year is a prime example of being physically dominated by bigger bodies. Because of this I would not be playing Morton or Gysberts. Morton - because when he chooses not to commit to a contest, or fumbles, he then gets pushed off the play or looses interest. Gysberts - his small frame would see his usually good skills collapse under pressure, or he will just get pushed aside too often. Also, the Hawks game is set up by their left-foot half back line. Our half forwards should all play man on man and give them no switch room. If we can thwart their switch-play off half back we have gone a long way to dismantling their game plan. Our big plus is in the ruck. But Mitchell and Burgoyne are great readers of whoever is winning the ruck contest. We must ensure that these two don't spend the day roving off Jamar and Stef. Scully will be vital with his pace and I wish Bail was ready to go. Jones, Moloney and Sylvia are vital. I wouldn't be putting McKenzie on Hodge or Mitchell. As of yet, he has not developed the footy smarts or physical size to combat these two, but I cannot think of a good match up. Savage perhaps? Garland on Buddy. He is a really good spoiler and this leaves Frawley free-er to break the lines and deliver to our half forwards. Nicholson on Rioli. He has to concentrate 100% just on Rioli. He has the early acceleration and pace to go with Rioli and can be damaging on the attack. I am unsure about Hodge because this year he has played a stopping role on oposition players. He might take Petterd. If this is the case, take Hodge to the goalsquare. A couple of things in our facvour: Do they have a player who can run all day with Watts? I don't think so - I just hope they don't put Hodge on him. Can they stop Stef Martin and his second efforts that see him putting it inside our forward 50? This could be a close game and they have a lot of younger boys also. Unfortunately, I reckon the Hawks by 20 points. .

I am looking forward to the next four weeks. Can we be consistent? Can we play 4 quarters? It is likely we won't win one of these games, however... Hawks. We are a slight chance here. We have improved but are likely again to get flogged at the stoppages. Probably Hawks by 35+ points Geelong. I reckon we have a shot at this. They are really shakey at the moment and even the Lions matched them for 75% of the game. Last year they only beat us by 11 points (I think) and I reckon the work of Jamar and Stef will give us first use. Carlton. I am a bit 50-50 with this one. As long as Robinson gets sat on his backside I will be sort of happy. The Blues are suspect and aprt from a gun midfield have real problems down back and I can't see anyone handling Watts' run and aerobic capacity. West Coast. Payback time and we should be angry. I reckon we will win one of either Cats or Blues, and come close in another. The other will be a flogging. This just happens to be a pattern at the moment. .

We play Hawthorn and we need to pick a side to match them. They slaughterd us at the MCG earlier this year, and it was mainly due to the big bodies of their midfield - Sewell, Mitchell, Burgoyne etc... I don't remember the exact stats but our stoppage numbers were way down. Gysberts was really inefficient last night with lazy and poor disposal, and will get monstered by the Hawks midfield. I would consider giving him a rest, or maybe as the sub. He is a genuine talent and I love much of his work but he won't stand up to the physicality of the Hawks. I also reckon Strauss may struggle even though I think he has a place in our current 22. I can see Rioli running around him, Osborne out-muscling him, or someone like Guerra running through him. Morton is going to be a real worry against the Hawks. He will play because he seems to be a favourite, but his lack of confidence, fumbling and lack of physical presence may give the Hawks an easy avenue to work through. OUT : Gysberts, Nicholson, IN : Davey, Joel MacDonald POSSIBLY : If Scully needs a rest, I wonder if we should also consider bringing in Bartram for Rioli? .

Green - strong and active Jones - not as dynamic Watts - just OK game Gysberts - some dreadful disposal Frawley - move over Scarlett Trengove - quality and excellence Morton - feeble and fumbly Sylvia - flair and strength McKenzie - an OK game Petterd - creative and gutsy Maric - quality small forward Garland - mr. reliable again Moloney - quieter but effective Jurrah - class and aggro Rivers - standard Rivers game Scully - beaten by tagger Martin - versatile, skillful, 4-quarters Tapscott - good first game Howe - shouldn't be sub Jamar - played his part Strauss - an OK game Nicholson - loved his effort .

6 - Stefan Martin 5 - Colin Slvia 4 - Jack Trengove 3 - James Frawley 2 - Ricky Petterd 1 - Addam Maric

We have to keep Max Gawn. Obviously a lot of clubs will circle and make offers etc... They would be mad not to. But looking at his Casey and Melbourne form, Gawn has skill, aggression, ruck nouse, can take a mark and he is HUGE. Spencer's position looks the most vulnerable because Fitzpatrick has shown little so far. I would be happy to offer Spencer if we had to absorb any ruck trade pressure. .

In my best ever 22 this bloke is the coach, just above Leigh Matthews. Sourpuss - yes. Disdain for the media - yes. One word answers that infuriated everyone - yes. But his boys played with a fire and a freedom that every team aspires to but few reach. Who could foget those Hawks of the 80's? Disciplined, tough, skillful, and those 2 or three with flair. Great coach Yabbie - well done. .

Melbourne should be planning to have the ball in thier hands a lot, and play positive, strong football. WE can't underestimate Port - they usually play 2 - 3 quarters of good footy and so do we so it is not going to be as easy as it appears on the surface. But man for man we have a much more sillful starting 22, and a lot more grunt players (which in light of some refent efforts says a bit about Port). The sure hands of Gysberts, Trengove and Watts should be too much for them. Dangers: Schulz. Frawley should tear him apart, or Garland with his amazing spoiling attributes. Gray. A really good footballer who is playing brilliant footy in a poor side. Rodan. Bennell to run with him and run off him. Rodan is only quick off the mark - he can be caught after 10 metres or so. Bennell is quick off the mark and continues to accelerate. On recent form, Bennell does not deserve his place but it is horses for courses and he should play in Darwin. .

When I wrote the topic up this morning, I really wanted to give a big-picture perspective of the game, without focusing only on the poorer parts of the game. I reckon we have a great list, a game plan that can work, and a coach who is ready to do the hard yards. But when we lose... we get monstered. But even I can't get a grip on these matters: Our lack of leadership when we are losing, especially when opposition get 3-4 goals in a row. Moloney can hold his head up - very little has diverted him from being physical and vocal. Rivers has been good this year but his leadership is limited. Green & Davey have been very disappointing in terms of leadership. Looking back on Neitz, Viney, Lyon - its a great pity to see such hesitant and ineffectual leadership. Our lack of aggro and intensity. We rarely have even 5 players play with a "hunter" mentality even when we win. Maybe the Richmond game was the only exception. McKenzie and Trengove should be learning this, not leading it. .

Is there any stats person out there who could research the following point for me? In our big losses this year, are there any serial offenders with really poor stats (under 10 disposals? under 12 disposals?) in each or most of those games? For example, I assume our skipper Green would be one but this seems to be an opinion based on emotion. I would love to see some figures. I hope someone can do the work. .

Can't believe people are wanting Nicholson or Strauss out, or those who want Bartram in. OUT : Bennell, Morton. IN : Tapscott, MacDonald. How far away are Bail and Davey? .

Yes, we are all steamed up after losing another winnable game at Etihad, with some familiar weaknesses on display. Fellow demonlanders, it really is hard to stick tough sometimes after 45+ years of watching the same patterns emerge. However, after a good breakfast, a match review with my Demon-loving family, and a kick of the footy with my boys, I would like to give some measured response to last night. The last 20 minutes was unforgivable, but apart from that period alone: At times our football was breath-taking. Our movement out of defence caught the Doggies repeatedly by surprise. Frawley, River, Strauss, Nicho etc... were not terrible and our loss does not sit with them. Our running through the corridr (or at least at the edge of the centre square) was first class at times with a great overlap pattern. We got it into forward 50 enough times to win the game. We equalled thier tackles, or near enough. Contested possession was even we blooded another first-gamer (although it was probably the wrong night to do it) It was only as the Doggies applied pressure in a small space that we began that horrible pattern of 6-8 handballs in close to turn it over, and because we had all spread forward, we got burned bad on the turnover. Our stoppage play shows deficiencies against mature, skillful midfields (Pies, Hawks, Blues and now dogs). Improvement will come after another pre-season, and 2013 should be the year when the bodies are amture enough to demonstrate skill in tight spaces. Our kicking for goal is an official worry now. We are missing 5-10 easy shots every week. All the great work done through defence and the midfield is being ruined by forwards either taking it too easy, not concentrating, or lacking simple skills at important times. If anyone remembers the years that Barassi was at Melbourne, he almost killed Flower's career. He was played everywhere because there were few with his skill, poise and courage in the team. I feel the same is being done to Watts. If he plays all over the ground to cover gaps, his forward maturity will slow down and it is now our forward line that is our main lack. I am a fan of the way Bailey has stuck to his development plan but think he is holding Watts back from developing the skills required for a key forward. The roller coaster is frustrating, but when we do play well it is great footy. Our problems ar fixable and depend on a strong, injury-free preseason leading into 2012. This will prove to me whether the team that is emerging is as good as the early 90's team that could have/should have won a flag. .

The Good Trengove Watts Petterd Petterd's mark Some amazing passages of football bringing the ball from defence to attack The Ugly Repeated 6-8 in close handballs which are eventually intercepted, and because we have all spread forward getting killed on the turnover Jurrah's kicking for goal Missed easy shots - Jamar 20 metres out; Green's 3rd quarter miss; LJ's yips; 4 posters; The Ugly Another loss at Etihad Allowing Hudson to beat both Jamar AND Martin Bennell and Morton

6 . Trengove 5 . Watts (this bloke CANNOT continue to play stop gap roles all over the ground.) 4 . Petterd 3 . Howe 2 . Jones 1 . McKenzie

I noticed it at the time, and when I watched the Bigpond video it stood out again. Jordie had just been involved in a big pack, the ball spills out to Martin. Jordie jumps over the pack, clings to Martin like a cheap back pack on a bushwalker. He cling on for dear life and would not let go. You could tell he hated the idea that Martin - his opponent - had the ball and was going to get an easy disposal. Serious man love developing for this bloke. .

Friday night is important. At this very moment we are in better form than the Dogs, and our essential players are in good form. Etihad should not make any difference. Our best 22 should be able to outplay their best 22. Some points to note: Without any stats in front of me I reckon the Dogs are a good tackling side so our skills under pressure will be a major factor whether we win/lose. Our 3 tall backs in Frawley, Rivers and Garland should be able to negate any large player influence from the Dogs forwards. Frawley could play a blinder. Griffen and Murphy concern me - both must be negated for us to win. Cooney also if he is fit. Forward 50 pressure is vital. .

Our game plan is functional - but it requires one golden ingredient that teams must work towards. Once you gain possession and begin the forward spread, the players must be at least 70 - 80% efficient when under extreme pressure. This requires bodies that are strong through the thighs, hips and torso and is the reason why we struggle against Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn. Once Gysberts, Scully, Trengove, Bail, Bennell, McKenzie develop this core strength our plan will be executed well. That is why Moloney, Sylvia and to a lesser extent Jones are so capable under pressure - they can take a tackle and dish it off with some efficiency. Watts is bigger than MOrton through the core - and look at his development. Have a look at the bum and hips of Nicholson, Strauss, Petterd. They are already strong-ish through the core and that is why they are better under pressure (not there yet, but better than Jetta, Bartram etc...) .

I have just spent a really enjoyable 15 minutes reading the after-game ranting of Tiges supporters on "one-eyed richmond" forum. If anyone thinks we can get negative and impatient about Morton, Bennell, Jetta, Blease etc... you should read their stuff. It is true - Tiges supporters eat their own!!! Some of the great lines about Melbourne players (Watts is a an umpire's favourite, Green and Pettered are soft) are nothing compared to their scathing attacks on Gourdis, McGuane, Farmer and wait for it - Miller. Yep, they rant about the same things we used to. One poster wrote "he needs 10 shots at goal for 4 goals". If you want 15 minutes of pure, self indulgent and gloating pleasure visit the site for yourself. .

Dunn on Hall - what have you been smoking? Hall would kick 10 on him. OUT : Morton, Joel Mac IN : Blease, Tapscott/Warnock? Will Tapscott need a run at Casey? Warnock has limitations, but playing on Gorillas is his upside. Bring him in for hall? .

The Good. Teamwork Jurrah tackling, and 2nd efforts Watts' 3rd quarter goal (and the fellow Dees supporter who said to me "that ain't no Brighton Grammar boy any more) Our forward structure Very dependable back six Scully's 10 possessions in the last quarter when everyone else slowed and/or cramped Moloney and Jamar The Bad Set shots at goal. I think we missed 7 gettable shots, it might have been 8 Richmond supoprters who believe if you tackle someone with the ball it MUST be holding the ball. #$*@!%$y frustrating. Car park being full. Got to Punt Rd by 1.05pm, drove past the closed car park gates at 2pm, had to park in Lennox St, missed first 15 minutes. ended up sitting so high up I could see over the southern stand. The Ugly Cale Morton's first kick. In regard to kicking skills, Morton has Darren Gaspar and Ben Holland writen all over him. .