jimcor

I have refrained from posting anything on this thread because the premise is ridiculous. Give the lad time because he's a good footballer who will likely become a great footballer. The reason I'm on here was because I wanted to pass comment on our midfield and didn't know where else to go. I caught 10 seconds of the Richmond, Hawks game and in that 10 secs, I saw Jake king make four successive, effective tackles on four different players. How good is that? When was the last time I saw someone in our mids do that? How fit is he? Just a thought. Ps I might have last seen it in the NAB Cup game against the Pies. Sweet memories!

Agree with the good Dr G. Of course, fitness impacts on performance and lack of stamina is very different from lack of effort! On top of the fitness issue, there is the skills issue and the need to learn (and practise) a new way of playing. This isn't a refinement, it's a complete change. The Bailey plan was a bit like reverse Russian Roulette where, by the law of averages, every now and then all the stars were in alignment and a win was had. I don't think that that was a good basis for a finals campaign. We are a work in progress and it's still too soon to judge but there are some positive indications that it might work. If not, we've waited nearly 60 years so one thing we can't be accused of lacking is patience.

6/- Rivers - Did a lot of good things in spite of being towered over 5/- Jones - Another really solid effort 4/- McDonald - Strong, fit and turned the ball over less 3/- Blease - Lots of effective bursts spoilt a little by poor licking for goal 2/- Watts - Always thinking, always looking for smart ways to get the ball and smart things to do with the ball 1/- McKenzie - Good job on Judd Also thought that Grimes, though not brilliant, played a good, brave Captain's game We're back on the 'improving' curve which is a relief. Thought we spread really well on occasion.

I think Tommy Mc is a thinker like Jack Watts and that's why he looks like he's coasting. Good players always seem to look like they have a bit more time. When his skill levels improve, he'll be able to execute his preferred option more successfully. Look at how Nate Jones is improving now that he's able to manufacture more time when he's in possession. Last season, I was often concerned that he was getting plenty of the ball but simply got rid of it as soon as he could.

I think that one of the problems with using your brain while playing footy is that you identify options, weigh them up and then select what you think is the best one to execute. When you're young, a greater proportion of these are probably going to be wrong. Jack Watts usually makes pretty good decisions - but not always. How on the one hand can we criticism our players for all flying for a mark, then immediately slag two (well, one really because JW was singled out) of them for trying to crumb! It's not rational. Anyway, it's also about learning from mistakes and my guess is that it will be talked about in the post-mortem.

I think this is pretty right. We were fortunate that they had a few outs but I thought it was an acceptable effort til 3/4 time. I thought our skills were better than in the fast but the fadeaway in the third qtr must be a fitness issue. The best endurance runners during the pre-season were Tommy Mc, Dan Nicholson, Matty Bates & Nate Jones and, interestingly, of the three in that group that played today, they all seemed to play out the four quarters. In past pre-seasons, Moloney has often been highlighted as the 'best' trainer but this year was found wanting - not the only one by any stretch of the imagination. Given that the bulk of our players (including the rehabbed like Mckenzie, Tapscott, Bail, etc) weren't match-fit, the mistakes they make as they become more tired are much more understandable. What soetimes looks like lack of effort or intensity might just be that they are buggered. This will improve over time. No excuses for lack of effort early on but as the game progresses, it becomes more understandable. I still cannot understand why Jamar isn't doing more and I don't think Moloney is smart enough to work out how to get out of the hole he's dug himself. Dunn also confuses me because I can't remember him contesting one overhead mark! Do you think he's following instructions and, if so, why?

And that's why I would expect him to be used more often given that part of being in the leadership group must be about speaking on behalf of the team and displaying solidarity. I am presuming that they would have been given media training.

Grimes is a very impressive spokesman. Having said that, I would also like to see Jamar & Rivers (as members of the leadership group brought out to provide some support for Mark Neeld at the post-match press conference. There doesn't seem to be any hesitation in drafting Jack Watts as a spokesman and a bit more visible solidarity would only help the case. I know Rivers isn't the most articulate of our players but, in my opinion, he's having a really solid year and merits a bit of showcasing. Of Frawley, Garland & himself, he's probably been the most consistent. Jamar speaks very well and should be very comfortable in front of the press after all this time.

I think this is right. I was certainly one who thought that he would never be more than a 'trier' and that his natural ability was limited. He is absolute proof that a player's attitude plays a huge part in their on-field performance. He seems to have both improved his fitness and his decision-making ability (what a smart, elite player really needs) significantly and it was this latter element that concerned me. Given a bit more time and coaching, he might even be able to get to the point where he becomes an elite player. Fingers crossed because if it was just down to application & effort, he'd be there already.

I disagree with this. I have seen the younger players consistently show passion however it's the senior players that are a bit of a worry. I wonder now whether with regard to the training, we might have gone too hard, too early. Hindsight is, of course, a wonderful thing but what else have got when trying to understand how we've got to where we're at. Anyway, I will reserve my judgement for a little while longer to see if we can get back on a 'week-by-week improvement' trajectory.

Agree with all that. The reckoning has to wait until after the VFL bye as another slaughter would be counter-productive and there needs to be given a last chance for some like Sylvia ( not Moloney!).

After a week off, this isn't the time to make unnecessary changes. After his broken pre-season, I don't think Sylvia wouldn't have the fitness level to run with a Walker. If Neeld dropped Moloney he would be making a statement that no one is undroppable, poor performance is punished and, if shopping yourself around mid-season is unacceptable. Davey is at least trying, Sylvia still might be saved from his own stupidity and Jamar is too talented to simply be written off. As I've said a few times, the responsibility lies with the coaches to extract the best from the players. Neeld is a teacher and would be more than aware of this. If he reacted as a lot of posters seem to want, 20% of students would be expelled or suspended every week. We'll never join the elite if all we do is respond by axeing players. Bate & Martin would be my two 'ins' to replace Moloney & Jurrah.

I think we need to give him one more chance (for the time being) to prove himself to this regime at this level. If he fails to impress again, then off to the bush to learn a lesson until he gets it.

Fair point but I think he was recruited to give us a bit of toughness in depth. As others have remarked, we need a range of 'types' in our mids so that has restricted his opportunities - and frankly, it's good to have some competition for spots. Someone (the coaches) have made a judgement that it's not the right time at the moment however, who knows, that might change this week. From what I've read here and elsewhere, he still needs to work on his skills and it's better for everyone if he does that in the VFL. I'd prefer Bates to come back for the reason stated before. I could be wrong.

From memory, Moloney had a full pre-season and has been given an extended opportunity to perform. He hasn't. I would drop him and make it absolutely clear to Sylvia (who had a very interrupted pre-season) that he had one more chance to show that he was up for it otherwise he is off for a rest in the country. There's no VFL this week so no VFL players will be able to show anything. Jurrah's out with injury. I'd bring back Bates (always gives 100% and can take a mark and kick a goal) for Moloney and, if fit, Stef Martin (has shown that he can play a bit) for Jurrah. Provided he can keep performing, Couch would have to be the next off the rank but not for these next three maybe. He's there for when Magner or Jones need a break and I don't think that's a long way off.

You're right about Trapper. It was never as if he didn't care, it was as if he sometimes just couldn't work out how to get in the game. Having been given a good opportunity to demonstrate at this level that he could rise to the occasion at a time when his talent was solely missed, he hasn't. Down to Casey to acquire some hunger or to wait for a delisting. On his day, Trapper made me feel grateful for being a Dees supporter because it gave me he opportunity to witness his sublime skills. Col normally just makes me feel a little bit used and abused.

Good post. I can't work out why some on here are determined to undermine Watts at every opportunity Are they still fretting over Natanui?? Regardless, he was a beacon on Saturday and we should take heart that he's still able to deliver while most of those around him struggle. I also fail to understand why he was only credited with one tackle, I saw three at least - and that wasn't his designated role. Sylvia has been described as a 'dumb footballer' and he's done little to disprove this comment. Let's hope he starts listening to those who know better and begins to deliver on his much-hyped potential. He's begun to maker Trapper look like Chris Judd.

Well put, PSD. Letting Junior go was such an obvious mistake it probably shouldn't need discussion (JM excepted). Miller I'm not so sure about but, with the benefit of hindsight, it's unlikely that his staying would have done too much harm - and Pia would only ever be an asset.

Absolutely right, Macca. That small minority can have a huge influence on the remainder because they are often older, well-entrenched and have a lot to lose if they allow the change to occur. The 'separation' I talked about can range from playing out your contract through to paying out your contract but as long as they are there, they are going to be a negative influence.

6 - Watts 5 - Blease 4 - Rivers 3 - Jones 2 - Grimes 1 - very difficult but maybe McDonald

Robbiefrom13, I agree with Hardnut, well said! I think we already have someone at the Club to play that link role - Neil Craig. He seems to be respected by both the players and the coaches and I'm sure he's acting as something of a conduit. I strongly agree that the solution is Ito be found by working honestly and sincerely with the players. In a work environment, I was taught that change was a manageable exercise and that those affected by change generally fell into one of four groups: 1/- Those that would immediately see the benefit of the change being offered and embrace & support it e.g. Jones, Trengrove, Grimes, Watts, etc (approx 50% of the group) 2/- Those that, after further and detailed explanation and the guidance of those that they respected, would then accept the necessary changes e.g. .??? (approx 25% of the group) 3/- Those who would accept change after being satisfied that their personal needs were going to be satisfied e.g. More money, premiership, etc (approx 15% of the group) 4/- Those that were determined to resist change under any circumstances for whatever reason e.g. Inability to change, loss of status, etc (approx 10% of the group) So, in short, approx 90% can be worked with and 10% may not be able to be worked with and a separation of some sort will need to be effected. These percentages are plucked from the air but they might be close to reality. The bottom line is that once the decision to make changes has been made, it can then be managed. The coaches and the leadership group have to do more than talk the talk. They have to provide some guidance and inspiration for the rest of the team.

That game-time argument was run from 2008-2011 and this is where we've arrived at - a culture that is not surprised or disheartened by abject failure. I think we have a greater need for leadership than ever before. Moloney has demonstrated none since his return and his contribution is woeful. Wrong perhaps to single him out but as the person who it's said of that he bleeds red & blue, I'd like to see it demonstrated on the field. I think we got Clark because he thought we (Neeld) had a future but if we fail to create leaders, we'll have trouble attracting anyone decent - even with $1m a season. BTW just re-watched the last two quarters and those who have criticized Jack Watt's performance either were watching a different game or were looking at it from a totally different mindset. I thought, if anything, he stood up and set a great example along with Blease.

A number of posters are calling for the dropping/execution of all of the non-performing senior players but that's just not possible. Does anyone really think that a less- experienced playing group will do better? The challenge,as I see it, is to convert under- performers to better performers. That challenge rests with the coaching group primarily. I don't think it's unreasonable for supporters, who have been waiting for success for so long, to be a little impatient. I hope and expect to continue to see week-on-week improvement and am disappointed when it doesn't happen - like last night. However, I also think that we need to hang tough because I believe that, as the players develop, the plan has a better chance of bringing sustained success than Bailey's. Fingers crossed.

Almost agree. Is Jones a senior player yet? Jamar was once again found wanting and I'm also beginning to think that his ruck work isn't up to scratch because so many of his taps go to the opposition. Isn't a class ruck man supposed to feed his crumbers? I still think Garland, Frawley & Rivers deliver but are not yet inspirational. That's one of the things that we seem to be lacking, players that are inspirational.

Oh dear! Eight games in and, for the first time this season (believe it or not) I'm pretty disappointed with our performance. That might sound mad but up until now, I could see that there had been week-on-week progress. This week, no such luck. Perhaps it was an unrealistic expectation. I will no doubt get over it by tomorrow but I think Neeld has to continually demonstrate that there is light at the end of the tunnel and, most importantly, that the tunnel isn't too long. And before someone else says it, that the light isn't on the front of a train coming our way. A strong positive was that it wasn't on free to air TV so not everyone at work will have watched it.