nutbean

Irrespective of whether he was up to it Didak did not want to be retired Ben Johnson - retired, Tarrant - retired, Heath Shaw moved on. Only one left is Swan. There is conflicting information as to whether Daisy Thomas was part of the clique. You will notice that I used the words - "Buckley considered problematic" and "perceived influence on others". I chose these words carefully as I have no insight into Collingwood other than what I read in the papers. I am not sure whether it is a beat up or not but all you need to do is google Collingwood ratpack - there is a plethora of articles about them.

Please send me an application form to join this club.

you know exactly where I heard it - Judd's grandmother

I didn't know that happened. Just googled it. I shouldn't find it amusing but the first paragraph reads - A MELBOURNE Football Club player has been ordered not to assault his teenage girlfriend after an early-morning incident last weekend. You have to ordered by a court not to assault your girlfriend ???? really ??????

I have good mail that we will only be receiving mail twice a week . So I think that will make it the pretty average mail.

Says more about us a club than about Sylvia. I always saw talent in him and I ( like many ) were always waiting for the breakout season - if only he had a full preseason. A lot of smarter posters than me jumped off his bandwagon earlier than I did knowing that we could wait another 10 years and he wouldn't do a full preseason or have a breakout year. But he sure was a tease - and I think that is what kept him on our list for 10 years.

I know it ...I know it... I don't mind good intellectual discussion and even if I disagree with opinions that are well reasoned - I can see their point of view - disagree and leave them alone. I just go a bit troppo when I see stuff written that a single player like Frawley will "stifle the development of younger players" and " our list can improve 10 fold without him ". I have no problem with any poster not valuing him as a footballer and thinking he is easily replaceable - But stifling youth development and our list would improve 10 fold without him is just blatant nonsense. We basically improved our list one fold with Sylvia going and Vince coming - one puts in the hard yards week in and out and the other didn't. Further onn Sylvia - I have been thinking about culture killers and I guess for me the ones that I see as problematic are footballers with discipline problems - coming back overweight for PS training or those that skip sessions, drink/(drug ?) problems, late night night clubbing, fighting and that's both on and off the field. Collingwood cleaned out a lot of players that Buckley considered problematic - the ratpack - not for their onfield performances - but their off field behaviours and apparently perceived influence on others. Sylvia's performances for me were made more disappointing because apart from the fact that he would only shine in one out of 8 games, his attitude outside the club made it worse. He had some noted indiscretions and other rumoured indiscretions. In his years with us he never had a full preseason. This in itself cannot be blamed on him but it adds to the total package. ( I tend to be forgiving of players like Nicholson - I unfortunately don't think he has disposal skills to be a regular AFL footballer but he gives his all both on and off the field. I love the Daniel Crosses of the world because he has average talent and has gotten 100% out of himself to be a more than useful footballer. In between you have McKenzie who is limited and works very hard but hasnt reached the heights of a Cross. I would love to have a hybrid Sylvia/McKenzie.)

mmm Jacqui... sweet sweet Jacqui

Just ask Brian Lake and Drew Petrie

I keep replying to you because you keep posting the same stuff that most I talk to don't agree with. So in answer to your question - has he lacked urgency ? half hearted efforts ? Nope - don't agree - I see an improvement in his efforts compared to the previous two years but also see him a fair way off his AA year. He doesn't go at it like a Jones or Dawes but then not many do. Do I see bombs to no-one, poor disposal at times and indecisive/poor decision making ? Sure. You keep banging on about him being in the leadership group - I can see that you definitely wouldn't have in the leadership group - I probably wouldn't either - but you and I don't vote in the leadership group - the players and coaching staff do. There is a good reason for this - there are many components to being a leader and we get to see just a slither - what we perceive on the field. We don't know what he does in the change rooms, on the training track and we really don't know how much direction and voice he is giving on the field because he is not animated on the field like a Hodge is. Interestingly - I talked to a couple of players separately about Cameron Bruce and whilst he was part of poor period of leaders I thought he was a very poor choice to be in our LG. I was forthright in my opinions on his helicopters and some less than full on efforts. I was promptly pulled up and told that he was fantastic with the kids, quiet instruction to the kids on the field, a leader in training and the players really respected him.I still think he was a poor leader in a group of other poor leaders but players thought differently. Again we only see a small part of the leaders in action. Do I compare him favourably to Dawes as leader ? From what I see - no. Would I see getting a pick within the first 4 picksas a win for Frawley - if it is used well - probably. You say that Frawley is not the footballer to take the club forward. We have a whole list that needs to collectively take the club forward. Some will be prominent through force of personality and some will do it through exceptional talent on the field. Some will play just play a role week in and week out. I don't see Frawley having a dominant personality. He had a couple of very good years - one being AA and he is playing his role this year - that's according to our coach. Not sure if he can rise again to be a "talent" or just be another role player. But to compare him to Sylvia is in my opinion insulting. You find the flaws in Frawley and boldly suggest he can't change - I find that arrogance ( or ignorance ) of the highest order - Many on here believed that Pederson - who's efforts last year were very suspect was an absolute delist and the same goes for Dunn a few years back - interestingly that they have changed. Watts is further developing and slowly changing - sorry Chip - you can't change. The club is fresh out of the change gene for you. And to suggest "Frawley will continue to waft which will ultimately have an impact on the development of our younger players" - where do you get this stuff from ??? Now you are insulting Roos and Co and their ability to coach and set standards - to suggest that Frawleys impact is that strong and toxic !!! (Roos end of year address at AGM - JKH, Jimmy T and Salem didn't came on as expected - Damn you Chip Frawley") I repeat - the way he has played the last two seasons is a way off his AA year. I see his flaws - I see his decision making and disposal at times. I think we may do alright if we get a band 1 pick for him. No player is indispensable and there are many players I consider more important to our structure and future than Frawley. I just keep replying to your posts because I find your view of him holding back our club back as amusing as you find my constant replying to you. edit - just re-read the post and obviously your last line didn't register - Let him go, and the chance for further rejuvenation to our list and club is ten-fold. take this comment and the comment about him having an impact on development of the younger players to Roos and PJ and see what sort of reaction you get. Bottom line is - he is just another player on the list with strengths and weaknesses. He will probably leave and we will probably get a high pick for him. If he goes then so be it - if he stays I will watch with interest to see our list devalue 10 fold and our kids fall into a giant hole.

Never miss an opportunity. Seriously.

I hate that place so much. A few wins there would probably change my outlook.

I'm surprised the whole team didnt want out at the end of 2013 season ( contracts not withstanding!)

I will ask this question - who here would have enjoyed playing small forward for the MFC in 2012/13 ? ewww is all. Just ewww

This does get lost sometimes

Whack em before they get here, whack whilst they're here and a nice little whack on the way out.

Well down to Shannon on his retirement and his time at the MFC - Instead of criticizing (not you Hardtack) maybe his time should be looked at in context with the clubs performances over the time he was with us. Imagine if Pederson had an injury riddled year this year and retired - imagine what his epitaph would read like based on his previous years output. Maybe we should apologise to Shannon for convincing him to put down roots in our neighbourhood for the past two years.

I got a medal on Sunday for finishing 5564th in the Run Melbourne 10km event - top that Byrnes !

And besides free agency - how would it work. Salem says my contract is up at the end of the year and I'm off to the Swans - I've signed a contract with them. MFC says - no problem - we want three top ten draft picks or he can go into PSD and take his chances that he gets through to the Swans.With a draft picks/National draft/PSD model pre-announcing a signed contract can't work except in unrestricted free agency.

I truly vacillate on this one Rjay. I actually I like all the intrigue and machinations unless it is a valued player on our list that is the subject of the leaving rumours. Then I hate it. As I said before, after being Scullified I have learned (with varying degrees of success) to unattach myself emotionally from any of our players falling out of contract who are not re-signing nice and early.

I'm not suggesting Arrow's source is unreliable ...wait a second...OK.. I will suggest that there are so many "sources" that are quoted on here with diametrically opposed views that someones sources can't possibly be reliable. Even the media who you think ( sic - hope) would have good sources have him signed sealed and delivered at various stage to Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood. There is one poster on here whose inside news has been pretty spot on the money as to the rest - I enjoy reading the rumours and take them as just that. Your presumption though that no player manager or player would leak is just that - a presumption. The trouble is that once you start to shop yourself you open yourself to interpretation. Apparently Chip has met with Selwood and Hawkins ( another rumour) - imagine them talking about their state of the art facilities and how money is no object to go and climb mountains in Alaska for preseason. Chip being a very smart individual would say " geez - so much different from my current mob - it would be great to play here" - Interpretation from Selwood and Hawkins - "he's ours, boys". So much guff and nonsense goes on at this time of the year - better just to take it all in and not twist a bowel until it actually unfolds.

I agree with this...except ... I don't know if we are heading down the NRL line as we have a far more complex system than the NRL - NRL players have a contract and that's it - when its up you can re-sign or move on so it is much easier for players to move in the NRL than the AFL. We have a National draft and PSD - so how can a non free agent player announce that he is leaving to go to another club - a deal may not get done ? It would only work for Free agents - they are the only player category who could announce prior to the end of the season that they are going and where they going to. I despise all this speculation so I actually prefer the NRL transparency. It would hurt to see a player in your colours this weekend who you know will be at another club next but is it any worse than the current Scully/Ablett/Franklin/Frawley charade ?

I agree with this...except ... I don't know if we are heading down the NRL line as we have a far more complex system than the NRL - NRL players have a contract and that's it - when its up you can re-sign or move on so it is much easier for players to move in the NRL than the AFL. We have a National draft and PSD - so how can a non free agent player announce that he is leaving to go to another club - a deal may not get done ? It would only work for Free agents - they are the only player category who could announce prior to the end of the season that they are going and where they going to. I despise all this speculation so I actually prefer the NRL transparency. It would hurt to see a player in your colours this weekend who you know will be at another club next but is it any worse than the current Scully/Ablett/Franklin/Frawley charade ?

Problem is - to finish bottom we would have to at least lose to the Lions and GWS - to lose to them means our efforts would have to well below our effort in the Port game (IMO) - I would like to see our effort for the remaining games at least at the Port Adelaide game level. If it is at that level I can see us probably winning 2 games ( maybe 3 depending on what the Eagles serve up) and therefore not finish bottom - anything else would be disappointing. Roos' constant theme has been that it is not about the winning and losing - it is about the effort, intensity and improvement. But the logical extension of that is if we bring the right effort and intensity to the Lions and GWS game we should win. So yes - I will be disappointed if we finish bottom.

I will be disappointed because it will mean our intensity has dropped off. I think if we play with the endeavor we showed from mid way through the second quarter against port and bring that to the Lions and GWS game we should win. I even think that we can beat the like of WCE and North with us playing at our best. To me coming last means that we haven't finished off our season playing the best we are capable of.