binman

Thanks HT for introducing some sanity to this thread. What is going on, why the panic? Improvement is rarely linear (Essendon not making the 8 last year for example, but pushing again this year - this is not all to do with Saint Hird, their improvement has been 2-3 years in the making). The club has been crystal clear we are building a foundation and the main game is 2 years away. My feeling pre season was that we wouldn't make the 8 but would be close and nothing that has occured thus far has changed that feeling. It was a calculated gamble axing McDonald (and Yze, Robertson, Wheatley et al in previous years) and not meeting Cam Bruce’s terms. Of course in the short term this was going to hurt but it was cold, hard business and based on future pay off. As someone noted Gysbersts and Tapscott may not be in the side if not for those hardnosed calls. I suspect the club has gone very hard in the pre season on building the core strength of our players - see the increased bulk of Bate, Martin, Newton, Morton - at the expense of aerobic capacity. Bailey has made the point on numerous occasions how important core strength is and how vital it is to winning stoppages (and how key that is). I'm not a stats man but i reckon our contested possession stats would be pretty good this year. I reckon we will improve our aerobic stuff as the year rolls on and be better able to run quarters and games out. As for the game plan it seems to me that we are, in fact changing our style this year. Whilst still playing a spread and carry style we are clearly going 'round the boundary more and less through the corridor. He has also been playing Jamar deep more often to encourage less shallow inside 50 kicks and provide a contest near our goal. I also reckon the sub rule aligns well with our style as games seem to be breaking open more late in quarters (as is the intention of this rule change). Bailey has also emphasised on several occasions the need for our forwards to create more pressure and i think Wonna’s relatively early call up (given his very interrupted pre season) is evidence of his focus on this. I would have thought that our current lack of pizzazz might be a direct result of trying to implement a rejigged game plan, just as we struggled early in Bailey's tenure with the Geelong style run and carry. The Collingwood forward press? The football media (and seemingly many fans) have very short memories (and attention spans for that matter). This is just the current orthodoxy which will be replaced by something else soon enough (ie by the side other than Collingwood who next wins a flag). Half way through last season Geelong were the favourites to win the flag and at the start of the season there was criticism of the Malthouse predilection for going around the boundary line. It also a style that is 100% reliant on having a side with few injuries, particularly to key runners. Hawthorn, the Saints and Collingwood have had sustained success with it only when they have had an almost full list for the whole season. Let’s see how Essendon goes now they have lost 2 key runners. I find it interesting that many of naysayers and doom merchants stress how long they have followed the club and how we should be delivering now. Surely the experience of watching footy over a long period teaches that only the clubs that plan well over the long term succeed. This has been the failing of Melbourne in the 30 odd years I have passionately followed the redlegs. In that time our governance has generally been an absolute shambles. This is why we haven’t been successful, not some half baked idea our fans tolerate mediocrity or our players are soft. Come on give me a break. We have had our fair share of warriors and talent but that is not enough. Our current governance structure seems to be sound and i am confident they will make the right calls, including who should coach the team. I actually think we will push for the 8 (though as i noted not neccesarily make it) and finish the year well. I also reckon we will continue the trend of last year and play well against the top 4 teams. Deep breathes all round and lets reassess where we at the end of the season.

Yes, i thought that was very interesting and it lines up with the comments he made before the season about the need to focus on improving our forward pressure and going to the boundary. I read his comments as a pretty strong critique of our forwards and their lack of pressure. I'm sure that they want more from Watts and Jurrah in this regard and i reckon Watts starting as sub was a pretty clear message he needs to improve in this area. Jurrah i thought was better this weekend and Wonna is terrific with his tackling and harrasment. I also liked Davey up there as its probabaly hard to tag him there in some senses and his pace means he can shut space down quickly and put pressure on defenders. Dunn does not do enough in terms of tackling etc and to be honest i'm not too sure Greeny does either (a bit slow?) As for Jamar up forward i know we are thinking 2012-13 with players like Cook but i do wonder if the FD made the wrong call not selecting Darling given their stated need for a strong forward they can kick deep to (Bailey noted the probelm with the "shallow" kicks into our 50). Darling played 2 years senior footy in the WAFL i think and i know Bailey is realy keen on soild citizens (and probabaly not keen on drafting kids from WA for fear they will want to return)but his aggression and precense (on field)would be pretty handy this year and beyond. Any way done now - lets see what the Cook can serve up.

What does this mean? We don't accept it! Lets say, for the sake of argument "we" don't accept mediocre skills what will happen?

Yep i'm with you on this. There was a thread asking how much we should win by for a pass mark. Many said around the 70 range. The betting line (which is alot more reliable than online forum predictions, given it is peoples hard earned) was about 50 points i think. Well we almost doubled that. But of course some people still aren't happy. Perhaps we should have beaten them by 500 points. Given the Bulldogs could only beat them by 70, at home, they must be a monty to finish near the bottom of the ladder (that's supposed to be ironic btw) Nothing wrong with constructive, well reasoned criticisms but It amazes me how negative many of the posts are on this site.

I'm with you on the negativity front. I'm also not so keen on the way threads seem so often seem to deinigrate into personal insults. Call me old fashioned but i was brought up to belive in the importance of respect and being polite. I'm keen on footy discussion not cheap point scoring. A postive from today? Jurrah - worth going along just for him, really smart in the last quarter the way he sheparded the Moloney goal through. Also Gysberts, he's a natural footy player and just a ball magnet. And Wonna showed how valuable his forward pressure will be in the next few years. Oh and 4 points. As i posted in another thread this was a real danger game and i'm happy to come away with a win

Absolutely. If we go out and show the lions the level of respect shown to them by a few posters we are a chance of losing. We need to bring our A game pure and simple. If we do and win by a point because the lions play out of their skins then all good. If we hammer them then great, but to be honest i would love both teams playing great footy and us winning going away.

A danger game for the dees, one we should win but as much as it pains me to say i like the Lions to cover the 31.5 line. We had a scratchy pre season, were poor in the second half last week, are struggling to kick big scores, the lions beat us in the pre season match (admittedly we had a pretty weak side in), our mid field is struggling and they still have a pretty good one. Also it might be a little slippery which does not suit our game style, with its emphasis on transition from defence via precise kicking and slick handball.

Its not just power forwards we are lacking, we also need to improve the tackling and physical pressure from all of our forwards. Collingwood and the Hawks have both power forwards and forwards and mids that tackle like demons (metaphorical ones not us). This obviously traps the ball in, causes turnovers but almost as important creates the referreed pressure so vital in causing errors and panic. I think from Bailey's comments before the season it is something he is working on (ie forwards tackling etc) but we have a long way to go with this.Wona has to come into the side for his forward pressure In terms of a power forward, don't laugh, but i reckon Newton is a chance to come into the side to be our power forward. He has been working to bulk up and is now big enough for the role. This might be his window of opportunity and perhaps like Brown he is a late developer.

I agree with these comments, spot on i reckon. Bailey's lack of a tactical response to the opposition having the momentum has been a theme in his tenure thus far, as has having no so called plan b, or simply an effective secondary model that works against sides that bottle it up well when our standard spread and run approach isn't working. On Sunday the older players didn't step up in the 3rd quarter but Bailey has to take some responsibility as well. Where were his moves to counter their run on (eg as one poster noted what about Dunn into the centre to get some hardness there), where was his tactical response? Team development is all well and good but tactical nouse in this day and age is crucial. I thought it was really intersting that Davey called for a slow down at 23rd min mark of the second, which may or amy not have been the right thing to do, but did not do so (& nor did any other senior player) in the 3rd when the game was being ripped away from us. Surely that was the time to stop the momentum, hold the ball, chip it around, rebalance. Green acknowledged exactly this point in his press conference on Monday. Now here's my point about this - Bailey was down on the ground during the 3rd so could communicate directly with the players. Why didn't he direct a player to go out and slow things up? Why didn't he take charge tacticaly. He's the senior coach after all and the buck stops with him Also tacticaly it was a huge risk having Maric as the sub as he can only play up forward, when we needed some mid field grunt and run in the last q not a goal sneak. He should have statred on the ground with Jetta sub as at least Jetta can play in a variety of spots and generally tackles well (though not on Sunday)

This might be a silly question but when you say AAMI park do they train inside that stadium? I had it in my mind they train out on Goshs oval, where the intra club practice game was (which has a boundary line, though not a fence as far as i can recall)

Jimmy did no such thing, on the contrary he made it clear that Fev should work himself out and gain an understanding of cause and effect. Until he does develop some basic insight Jimmy won't let him any where near any vulnerable young people

TJWWHBASO - The Jack Watts will he be a star obsession! I watched a replay of the game last night and it was interesting. Reid for the Swans took a good grab and one of the commentators noted how he was slowly improving and how it takes time for the skinny forward types to develop, but that he was getting there. The curse of going number 1 i suppose but wouldn't it be nice for JW to benefit from the same sort of patience and be able develop without the pressure of the TJWWHBASO. It is also intersting the discussion in this thread about how Watts might fit into modern footy. Players like Kernahan, Carey and Brown may become less influential as the game heads towards the need to have elite level runners, partic if the current 3 interchange and 1 sub rule stays in place as it places even greater emphasis on having endurance runners in the team. The idea of Watts doing some ruck work also isn't that crazy. He took quite a few boundary throw ins on Sunday, including a crucial one in the last 2 mins, right in front of Sydneys goals that he very cleverly hit on an angle away from goal and back over the line. No doubt about it he's got some smarts, something you have or you don't.

"Jack Watts: Jack had a solid game. He was good with some of his contested work and he laid three tackles, while he made five spoils when he was outnumbered." From the Mark Williams player assessment on the MFC website. This is what they really want to see from Jack and he will be picked every week while he continues to do the nitty gritty stuff even if he is not kicking bags

One of them was a beauty. City end. Great vision to see Green, top choice not to attempt to kick it himself (he was 20 metres out directly in front) and good skills to hit him with the handball

Basketball team?

It was bloody Maric's fault! He should have gone at the ball. Critical mistake (that kick btw was left foot, pretty confident thing to do given where he was kicking from)

Am i right in thinking Martin was an elite basketballer and only started playing footy in his late teens? If so there is still heaps of upside for the Martian, partic. given big fellas always take time to make it (see Jamar). His kicking might improve which has to help

I agree with these 2 comments. The tap from the marking contest that set up the Bennelli running goal was terrific and showed great awareness. I also would love to see him play a little more instinctively, with a little more freedom (a bit like Jurrah). Funnily enough i reckon his desire to do the team thing and meet all the expectations constrains him a little. I just get the feeling if he can snag a couple early he could have a break out game which might release the shackles and set him on his way

Good game from the big fella. My favourite Martin. Looks a bit like he has been told never to kick unless absolutely neccessary, reminds me of Miller under Daniher. I reckon we might see a bit more of the Martin dish to Tap the tank

I thought Watts was good, not great but good. What i liked was his intensity was alot better than what i saw in the pre season and as i have said previously i suspect this is what the fd will want to see. I'll wager they will comment on his improved attack on the ball in the player wrap. He was at the man today, competed in the air and brought it to ground a few times. I agree with other posters that he was slow releasing it a couple of times. I don't recall the Jurrah one but there was one on the AFL members wing where he held onto it for ages, ignored a really hard lead from Dunny (ironic that)and went into a crowded corrridor. The other interesting thing was that in the first half he played really deep, in fact almost out of the square and Jurrah played alot higher. I reckon it helped him get in the game. It would be nice to see him snag some of those goals and kick 4 or 5 which i reckon he will when he gets on a roll

Great to see that Trengove is in, given the outs this is key. Also i'm rapt to see Jetta in. He was by far our best against BL in terms of intensity. Having just watched the cats v saints game it really reinforced how important intensity is going to be this year. It will be very interesting (and possibly quite instructive) who will be the sub

The final team as per the mfc website: Melbourne B: Clint Bartram, Jared Rivers, Joel Macdonald HB: Jack Grimes, Colin Garland, Jamie Bennell C: Nathan Jones, Brent Moloney, Luke Tapscott HF: Rohan Bail, Colin Sylvia, Liam Jurrah F: Jack Watts, Brad Green, Addam Maric FOLL: Mark Jamar, Lynden Dunn, Aaron Davey I/C: Neville Jetta, Stef Martin, Ricky Petterd, Jack Trengove Emg: Jake Spencer, James Strauss, Matthew Warnock New: Luke Tapscott (North Adelaide, SA) melbournefc.com.au

Really good call i reckon. Bailey has mentioned him a few times this pre season, with particular reference to how he might be used tacticaly and as part of the teams response to the much discussed forward press (basically kicking over the bloody thing). I have no doubt from his comments the club see him as an important player "going forward" and at the moment, with us lacking some older players his physical strength/presence is no doubt been a factor in his call up. For me i'm just keen to see new players and after all this year isn't the main game, 2 -3 years is and as Bailey has been at pains to say players need 50 - 60 games of AFL to really start to impose themselves. Tappy is starting the journey on Sunday and all power to him. I've got him in my starting sc line up so let's hope he starts with a bang.

Good call, lazy work from me. FWIW i expect that by the end of the season Watts will be comfortably in our top 10

Interesting that not one person has Watts in the top 10