Red Sox

It is nice to hear......certainly beats the negativity most of us have put up with from other supporters/commentators. As long as none of the players get ahead of themselves and continue to work to achieve that ultimate goal. Seen some decently rated teams in my time that got ahead of themselves far too often, hopefully this generation can avoid those downfalls. The West Coast game gave me shivers thinking that we were already getting ahead after only 3 wins and 10 in 3 years!! Hopefully a one off that one. Liam Pickering??? Massive conflict and not much point listening to that bloke as it is transparent when he is talking about a client. He pumps them up to the hilt, he gets on very well with Spud Frawley so would be no surprise if he was Chip's manager. I would add that the argument Liam made to have Frawley included over Dustin Fletcher (Brian Taylors nomination) was good. Taylor tried to retort by saying Chip doesn't pick up the best players and that Fletcher picks up talls and smalls. Not sure what BT has been watching as players such as Brown, Riewoldt, Stevie J, Medhurts, Motlop are a mix of small and tall that Chip has taken to the cleaners. More deserving of All Australian is Chip IMO - the selectors need to stop picking these 'teams of the year' on previous years form and just pick on exposed form for that given year.

Joel Mac is named first on the bench, always a good pointer to confirm he is likely to play and seems to make sense they pulled him out of the Willy game on a heavy ground that would drain him a bit? Could also be the quota rule at Casey? They bought in Fitzpatrick and Jurrah but not sure if two MFC listed boys had to make way and not sure why Tom would be one to have made way. Joel Mac makes a bit more sense.

IMO Bate & Petterd would be left to fight out one spot in the forward line. They are different players in what they bring. It's a tough call this one because when we do have a win it is Bater who really seems to play well. I would add the Rick was starting to have more influence on each game he played...it is a pity about his injury.

Hannabal finally I agree with you 100% on that fact and any REAL passionate demon would say the same. I get a feel that I am a bit younger than you (35) but I have certainly seen enough in that time to not want to accept second best or false dawns. I am also well aware that outside of a few players, we have had a heap of limited battlers at best, that I wont name but imagine you know what I mean. I am sure if you've ever had the pleasure of sitting near me at a game your opinion would quickly alter. The club as a whole has done a great job to turn a lot of this around but at the end of the day it comes down to performances on the field and this current crop of kids and potential talent IMO really do have a fair bit riding on their shoulders as if we dont make every post a winner over the next decade, the club could be in a vary precarious position. The apathy you refer to I agree with also and it is has a hell of a lot to do with why this club has been on it's knees. I guess that is why I may be coming across as an apologist because I am seeking to find the positive for the majority....sorry about that

Um....and what's your point or are you making three different points or are you just replying to me disagreeing with Gysberts disposal? Can't quite follow! Hopefully Gys can work on his disposal using socks in his bedroom while watching on TV!! If you think 2 weeks not playing football at all can improve this, outside of his rolled up socks..... The inclusions for this week you already put a line through as either too soft, not competent or on borrowed time. So in your glass 3 qtrs empty mentality why should you even care. No wonder this club has been mired in crap for 40+ years. You're a typical Melb supporter. .....yep that's right, nothing to do with talent, boards, facilities etc etc, as any Melbourne basher does you trot out this old gem....nice work!!

Agree Rhino on the Miller point.....Jurrah is lurking and I imagine another 2-3 weeks he will be close to an inclusion so Miller, Watts & Dunn will be on notice. Cannot agree with Stevethemanjordan. Just cannot agree with it in any way. Gysberts was put under close attention by Collingwood, very close attention. If his disposal was that bad where a comment such as 'learn the game' was warranted, why would Collingwood want to stop him getting it????? Not sure they would bother if he was a mule. I would also add that it can be difficult to be so clean when you are in the middle of a pack pumping it out as he did 25 times in his first two games. He has had a week off, now will have two and IMO this puts him right back for the year. If you saw what I saw standing out at Willy you could not possibly.....ah enough said, just stick to my own humble opinion which is....a terrible omission

Fair summation.....I think our future forward stocks look good, just a case of getting some game time together into them.

Bit too shabby?? The kid was watched pretty damn closely against the pies, he didnt get that many and was under pressure each time. He will learn from that but not by sitting back here watching it on TV.

Cheney, Spencer, Bennell = Average, Average, Average only 6 days ago, yet get named and Gys gets dropped after a weeks rest so will now have 2 weeks out of football with Caseys bye. Not happy with this, not happy at all!

FYI....that name pops up again. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/age-now-key-to-draft-picks-payoff/story-e6frf9ox-1225883452013

I like that point, he was effective and dangerous and was becoming a real focal point, IMO he could have got to the 40 goal mark easily with a full season and been left a great platform to launch from in 2011. Speaking hypothetically in response to 'will he be in our best 22 going forward', I could easily see Rick in the best 22 on the potential he has shown, even a crunch between he and Matt Bate in the forward line? Please, don't think I don't rate Bater as I very much do and IMO when we win Bater is usually right amongst it. If I could crystal ball and the ideal world comes together a forward six would include Jurrah, Watts as the KPP targets....Tapscott and Sylvia as the forward/midfielders, Wonaeamirri as the crumbing player (add Jim Bennell or Jetta at your leisure..I like a FIT Wonna because of his accuracy at goal) which then leaves a spot for a Bate or Petterd. Petterd and Bate playing at their best IMO there is not a great deal between them potential wise, of course Petterd does have the ability to play elsewhere which Bate doesn't. Again, I have a lot of time for Matt Bate so in no way a put down on him, just a comparison between he and Rick.

Junior is only 50/50 so he might well not be named....probably reading more than was there but from Bailey's comments I am doubtful they will play Sylvia and might give them both another week off. I dont mind this with Junior, not so he ends up playing the milestone game at home but because with hammys and his age it can quickly become an issue so better to give him another week if we get another year into him next year. I reckon there will be no outs at this stage and just an extended bench with possibly the two above included just to throw the crows off a bit.

Hannibal and others here that are so quick to label kids as soft or lacking courage....how ever you like to distinguish between the two, how did you find your first seasons at AFL even VFL senior level? Do you find the need to apply a certain label to a player that is far from warranted? Would you make the same comments about the majority of Geelong players? Doubtful....would you have made the same comments about Geelong players in 2005/2006, going by your summations here most definitely!! Today's football see's kids exposed into senior football a hell of a lot quicker than in days gone by where they could develop their game at reserve level, amongst men and play anywhere up to 50 or more games before they consistently played at senior level by which stage they had developed bodies capable of mixing it with seniors. They are now thrown into the senior mix a lot quicker, before they are developed completely and with a much higher expectation to perform from day one in every aspect of the game and little signs of where they might not yet be ready are then written up, as proven right here in this thread, as glaring weaknesses and doubts cast against them. Players such as Joel Selwood and Dustin Martin are rare examples of kids that have bodies ready for the cut and thrust from game 1 and in Selwoods case he had the advantage of coming into a fantastic group and he was able to compliment the others around him. Dustin Martin is getting the rave reviews he deserves because of the fact that very few kids are ready in every aspect of the game...he is some talent due to this fact and as much as I LOVE Scull and JT, Martin would be a certainty for Rising Star if not for his suspension, due to this fact, because it is rare!!! As for other high draft picks you could go through so so many since 2001 onwards that have been marked so hard and called "soft" or "lacking courage" because they are exposed so early. Gibbs, Murphy, Pendlebury, Thomas, Goddard, Wells, Deledio, Griffen, Hansen, Gumbleton, even the great Buddy was given this and other unwarranted tags early on. Strauss, Morton, Watts and the labels some are attempting to place on them so early may be accurate as you see it but the facts are far from that when you look at the big picture and the closing statements being applied. How about giving them some time and at least hold some comment back until they reach 50 games? Or continue to stamp their papers after a few games (or 2 in Strauss case - crazy!). Luckily none of you were on Hawthorns board at any stage or Luke Hodge would be suiting up with Fremantle right now......fair dinkum!!!!!!!

Ah yes, remember now Dr, cheers.....of course the example had to be them when it came to snatching a player away!!

Great clip!!!

Do father sons have a choice where they go at all? Am I correct in saying if a club commits to the pick then the kid has to come? Just asking because Jack Viney turned his back on Sturt where Todd played but of course he hasn't been in the state that long anyway and not like Todd played a HEAP of footy with Sturt. He is still only 15 isnt he? Hopefully a flag is already in the keeping by the time Jack comes across.

I have no hesitation in saying give it another 12 mths without injury and Rick on the potential shown would easily slot into Cat 2. But being cynical about this whole thing I reckon the AFL will debate putting Rick between Cat 4 into 3 possibly. It's not right and not my opinion on him just the feel that I get. If he does and I really really hope he doesn't...what does the club do? I noted that there was talk about Roughead at Hawthorn being a little off pace this year and with the Buddy factor it would be interesting to see if a trade could be struck for him if we lost Rick?? Hawthorn crying out for defenders - could we throw them a Rivers and an early pick considering that we have ample early picks on our list? Just a silly thought I know......

Well I must have missed your observations regarding the 9 previous games and these players involvements in those results. Calling it as you see it is one thing, outlandish future predictions are narrow minded IMO especially when you use one game as the entire basis for your argument or even worse a 'mates' observation. Call me one eyed, call me biased.....call me crazy but one game a career does not make.

Fair dinkum.....nice observations from a group that got a 20 goal hiding. Were you expecting glowing reports on the players, hardly!!! If half this lot had of performed then a 20 goal loss would not have happened. But as a group, which the majority of these boys are currently at Casey, before last weekend they were 8-1 so pull it back a bit please. Strauss - Soft? Ok could be some truth in that but this can change. Brad Green was soft at the contest IMO early on but his last 4 years have seen him transform this area of his game. But you cannot have been watching him that close with a comment like that as you obviously didn't see any of his work the previous four weeks and to say he won't make it......way over the top!!! Fitzy - a big beanpole that can look awkward and was his FIRST GAME at casey and you stick it to him, harshly. No word on the great goal he kicked and he did show some signs in the first half. Hope he doesn't come out and kick 5 in a fortnight or you might be calling him the next Carey putting in context how bad a sting you give after one game!! Even big Spence......ruckman take time and he still has time, Sam Jacobs at Carlton is a good one for Spence to watch and learn from. Meesen and Johnson are likely to go so I would expect that the Dees will give Spence that bit more time yet as Gawn and Fitpatrick are a year in. Maybe if these boyswere in a team sitting 2-8 rather than 8-2 there would be a bit more evidence of these attacks on Strauss and Fitzy....it was a shocking performance by the entire team, hopefully one of few and they return to the football where they win the close ones and were gutsy in getting these results, results that Strauss has played a big part in. Seriously!!

One from a pies fan and the other likely to be a pie......years of tanking? Not likely......I think Collingwood people quickly forget that they put all their players away in cotton wool from the middle of 2004, a year after playing off in a Grand Final for the 2nd time in 3 years!!. They got Pendlebury at pick 5 and Dale Thomas as a PRIORITY PICK!! HELLO?!!

Yep, not good anyway you look at, even accounting for our terrible results anywhere over the last 3 years even when we played finals you could put your house on us losing by 10 goals in Adelaide.....I had only just met my wife when we beat Adelaide in 2001 and now we have a house, two boys, plenty of debt and still no win at Football Park!!! IMO this is THE most important much for the year as it will really tell a lot about the players development as a group. If we continue to start games as we have and another 10 goal loss comes it really will be quite deflating. I could probably cope with a loss (by Tuesday anyway!) if we at least stay in the game for the majority and show some fortitude as a group. There is no reason why we should not go into this game and really attack Adelaide. They have been quite fractured throughout 2010 and if we can apply pressure early and maintain the rage we should be expecting to win this game. Go Dees!!

I will agree that it should be Millsy that makes way because we have seen his limitations....if he was to stay in the side I am not sure anyone could call it unwarranted and I certainly wouldn't. He did have a shocker against Carlton as did the majority but it so so easy to make Brad Miller the scapegoat isn't it? How has Matt Bate been in the same period? Not any better than Miller, missing crucial goals etc and struggling to stay in contests. There are reasons that Bater is struggling to get into games, fitness etc but he has been no more effective than Miller. I will again agree that it should be Dunn or Miller that make way if Sylvia returns, down the track both IMO should be playing at Casey when Jurrah is back and our future forward line given time to play together.....I just cannot stand the attacks on Brad. I've seen plenty at Melbourne play without much effort or heart, Brad has never been one of these and the effort he puts into every game deserves at least a lot less vitriol than comes his way from so many Melbourne supporters.

"The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show"

Yeah good point that....maybe the injury was causing more issue than we could tell, at his best Col is a jet but after his first couple of games this year has dropped away. I would play him though if 100% fit and ready to go....if not 100% yet, invest the game in someone else. For a forward line that has struggled and IMO is our final piece of the puzzle, there is going to be crunch for spots soon when Jurrah is fit to return and Wonaeamirri is fitter. Attrition/Injuries will most likely resolve it anyway. Jurrah, Watts, Bate, Sylvia, Miller, Dunn, Green, Bennell, Jetta, Wonna....hopefully Petterd still here next year which will make it more difficult if everyone is fit. That's 11 players for 6 spots (I won't call them positions as they dont relate much these days). If everyone stays fit and healthy for the remainder of this year it will be interesting to see how the coaching staff approach the forward line and it's development with a view to the future. For this reason I would hope that Watts plays every single game unless he is really stinking it up and that unless they play blinders that either Dunn or Miller are exclusions simply as we already know what they are capable of. I, like many am not a Miller hater, he has his severe limitations but he gives his all for the red & blue and I appreciate that! Dunn has done (dunn?) what has been asked too. Bate has struggled for fitness this year but can be very dangerous and as the season goes on a forward line of Jurrah, Watts, Bate is a good mix of KPP, Green would probably play further up the ground with Jurrah returning but go forward as needed. Sylvia on HFF leaves two spots where you would look for the crumbers such as Wonna, Bennell, Jetta......all three bring something entirely different IMO in the way they play. All three still have to prove a bit, not sure they will play in the one side for anything longer than a game here or there in the short term if all are looking at forward line positions, could be used in other spots of course, no doubt....but I see others we already have in these positions being more settled already. At this stage out of the three I really am looking forward to a fully fit Wonaeamirri returning to our side, a good mark for his size, decent speed but best of all is an outstanding kick for goal. Watts, Jurrah, Wonaeamirri, Sylvia, even Bate are players that I would feel pretty comfortable shooting for goal. Bennell and Jetta IMO are very closely matched at this stage....Bennell slightly ahead for mine as I think he has a touch more pace and is bit better in the air than Nev. I've waffled on a bit here but simply would like to see the forward line come together in the second half of this season and am really looking forward to how the coaching staff approach this in the last 10 games, if we don't happen to play finals next year, from now until the end of 2011 there are 32 games of footy for this group. ONLY 32...that is not a great deal really and the quicker that the right mix is found and played consistently together, the quicker our accent to the top reaches of this comp will be.

Was at the Casey game and can't see anyone coming in from there. Gysberts? Wouldn't have thought he will go out just yet but if or when Junior is back it would seem likely to be one of Gys or McKenzie that makes way....not that they particularly deserve it? Sylvia is likely to be ok to resume, who makes way for him assuming that he is straight back in which he should be, IMO he has struggled for consistency after his first couple of games but maybe the toe had been affecting him. I guess it would be one of Dunn, Miller or Watts to make way for Sylvia. Matt Bate could possibly do with a bit more match sharpness also. I love Matty Bate but he really seems to be wanting for some match fitness this year, I believe he had a limited pre-season which took him 3-4 weeks of the season to get up and running, got injured and came straight back in again. I've no problem with him staying in the side but can see reasoning behind him having a spell....not likely though especially as Casey have a bye. Watts - I would continue to play him, yes he is making some mistakes but he is also doing some good things and does an extra nice thing each week IMO and I really think he should be left to play out the season unless he really drops off Miller - I thought he was terrific against the pies and competed sometimes 3 or 4 against 1, he works hard and it's unfortunate for him that the results are not always there. So easy to stick it to this guy and agree his limitations have been well exposed but the hate he gets is not warranted for the effort he gives in the red & blue. Dunn - super defensive effort against the pies and should've probably kicked another couple. It might just come down to match ups between Dunn and Miller. Nev Jetta needs to get a bit more consistent, which can be hard from HFF and couldn't see him being replaced to leave a forward line of Bate, Miller, Watts, Sylvia, Dunn & Green as there is not much in the way of crumbing players. They could make a swap for one of Wonna or Jimmy Bennell for Jetta but it wouldn't be on form for Casey last week as both were quiet.