Red Sox

Yes, not a great deal and not a great draft for deals. (exceptions being Croad & Gram, Scotland? Meh, not really) A least Harford went on to win media performer of the year in 2010, though I am still scratching the head over that one.

In what way was I being incredulous? My response to the suggestion of the swap? Well, yes. My response to you? I wouldn't have thought so. It was probably more sarcastic considering I had read your response in regard the aforementioned group in this thread. As I said previously, I used the Voss, Buckley, Hird example in response to the call to swap, after that and am comfortable enough with that.

Not the worst call because of his kicking abilities. Not sure that he is that quick over the field and as such this would hinder his ability in a BP/HB position. I imagine he is down as forward/mid in the Chapman mould though, I would much prefer he deliver the quality of Chapman over Josh Hunt.

Cannot be if you read the article...and the article was right of course!

Yep, read that. Agreed with your final statement and added my further thought. Ok?

Jack Grimes, get on the park mate cause you are a star!! Love this guy Good signings, hopefully next year lock Scully in early past 2012 and away from any GWS clutches. Well done to Jones & Beamer - good mates that will be fighting for one spot shortly the way I see it.

I've been telling any Pies person (or others) that want to listen that MFC are far from being alone in tanking. Like High Tower states - it's list management. Collingwood made 2 grand finals in a row and the following year, tanked the 2nd half of the year, put all their players in for surgery, got Thomas & Pendlebury in the first few picks. Both could have been Norm Smith Medal winners and premiership players in the space of a week. (Thomas unlucky in the 1st game and also played a blinder of a 2nd half this time).

No, I would hope not but I he is behind the 8 ball. Stef is a work in progress that for many reasons went backwards this year. I think we need something/someone to help Jamar more than he got this year. Could a mix of Spencer & Martin step up? Perhaps, but I have my doubts that either will accelerate their progress in 2011.

And why would anyone in their right mind suggest otherwise. No one can declare anything out of a group such as Swallow, Scully, Trengove etc etc. From the talent seen they should all be fantastic players and have great careers. Voss, Hird, Buckley - you think any of their supporters would have swapped one for the other? Not likely and nor will we be sitting back saying that we would do likewise. Except for a flag for Buckley , those three champions achieved everything in the game possible. Scully, JT and Swallow all have the makings to do the same, for our sake hopefully Skull and JT are at the Voss end of achievements!

He is much better than that mate. No superstar that's for sure but fair dinkum he deserves a little more credit than that. Hell, advanced hair think enough of him to make him an ambassador! Agree with this JCB.

Looking forward to Tapscott very much, but I believe Sam Blease could be as damaging as anyone we have (including Skull). Time will tell.

Geelong and St Kilda are two very good examples for us as supporters to look at. Varying degrees of patience required. Both, for different reasons had access to some great talent early in the decade. Remember the night grand final they played (where sour Thomas and Hayes stood on the podium?) and that they were going to be rivals for the next so many years? Geelong, after almost letting it all slip away around 2005-2006, re-focused and as a group dedicated themselves to putting all efforts in to achieve the ultimate success, which they did. They were playing deep finals without the ultimate. St Kilda - did they suffer because of Thomas? I would argue that the teams under Thomas were more exciting to watch and had more going for them, maybe they needed a bit more of the mental fortitude that Lyon has bought to them. Unfortunately for Lyon that mental fortitude has not been backed up by the cattle he has in his current group. Players like Hamill, Gherig, Harvey, Jones etc are better than Eddy, Dempster, Macqualter, etc. Maybe Thomas was unlucky that the mix was out, ie - if Hayes, Riewoldt etc were another year or two advanced, similar to Pendlebury, Thomas, Swan and the youngsters at Collingwood? I believe some credit goes to Lyon for where he has dragged the saints, I think they really missed the boat earlier in the decade. It is amazing to say that considering that with an ounce of luck they might have won the flag in 09 and won the drawn game last week!

If we can get the deal up, David Hale will be wearing red & blue next year. Nothing surer in my mind. He suits our needs. Anyone remember how dead on his feet Jamar was by about Round 16-17? Paul Johnson was given all opportunity to assist and besides little fits and starts, he didn't provide much at all. Hale will be much more than competitive at the ruck contest, he will be a decent target up forward around a group of Jurrah, Watts, Petterd etc. If we can get 25-30 goals out of him, even 20 with a decent ruck output we will be happy. Bugger waiting, the time is now to hit finals in 2011. As big as Jamar's heart is, he will need some help if we are to win a final or two. Jamar is out and out number one. Hale for a 2nd round pick, that we could yet get back, is a winner as our back up.

Considering he said a flag at Collingwood would be bigger than Sydney, don't think he would be going anywhere soon. Poor form by him to differentiate between the flags like that, IMO.

my mistake

Yeah, your points stack up well. Especially in respect to yesterday. I still think the bottom 6 comparision does have some merit where evenly matched teams are concerned. Maybe all it does is consolidate a point about the entire 22. Bit harsh on Hayes, IMO he tried damn hard. His efforts in the last 2 minutes of the games sum him up and probably emphasise your points on Dal Santo and especially Montagna.

Yep, especially where big men are concerned. No point fluffing around with PJ. Let Fitz and Gawn develop. A 2nd round pick for Hale, which we might get back with a Warnock trade anyway.

He did win the Rising Star in his 1st year...I would be pretty confident to say that whichever club had rights on the early picks in the Kosi year, would have taken him also. Just like they would have all taken Watts. Will you say the same about Watts in 10 years if he doesn't work out as we hope? Pretty easy sledge IMO. Not sure about that at all. I think his best position is as a ruckman working around the ground. I wouldn't expect anything better than 30 goals out of him even with no Reiwoldt. Not sure about a dozen. Many 'experts' will match a teams bottom six against another teams when the 'front liners' are seeming to be evenly matached. The bottom six of St Kilda's has been mentioned plenty of times as the 'very' reason they struggle to take that final step. I would suggest the bottom 6 is very relative. You have just emphasised this further by adding in another 6 players. Pace has never been their go. Structure certainly has but it is quite difficult to set up your structure effectively when the opposition set up so well and don't allow you to. The forward pressure Collingwood has been renowned for this year won the day.

I don't care who we play in any Grand Finals as long as we 1. Win and 2. Win I just want to be seeing our boys climbing that dias. Of course, beating Collingwood would be great but I'm not fussy.

Which they began half way through the season. Half a season too late. About right in this market.

Would you be happy then? Really, it would be Hale for Warnock (Maric wont be worth a second round pick) and we would be left with the same pick/ This is how I would hope it works out. Very happy with that.

Cheers Demonland. Bring on 2011....Go Demons!

Every grand final in my 35 years (okay not the early one's), with the obvious exceptions being 1988 and 2000, I always get stuck watching the presentations. A sad feeling always follows as I think, 'when is our time for this'?. It is a weird fascination but I enjoy watching the players get the rewards due them. I have a lot of faith in the current group, from the board down that our time will come from this current group. But there is a fair journey to travel yet.

If we are very lucky, he will be just as good. Morton has the make up to deliver what Goddard can, the mental fortitude? Not sure. Goddard didn't use his height anywhere near enough early in his career. Goddard is a fantastic player, but he had people certainly question his ability as far as being a # 1 pick was concerned. From saints fans especially and others, very similar to the mixed comment Jack Watts has generated. He tailed off yesterday as the pies dominated. Without picking up a Norm Smith, IMO he was the best player across both games.

I'm not sure how I can explain why it has to happen. I never said it had to and you never asked. You asked why people associate lower numbers with better players. I only stated, matter of fact that it does happen. If Bennell wants to make a career and a name of out 43, that's great! My opinion was that he is a fair way from establishing anything as yet, let alone his number. I've got nothing against players that want to keep any number they choose to, but I would be confident to say that the majority move to a lower number.