P-man

Fer Christ's sake...announce the damn thing. This purgatory is killing me.

Yeah! Goddamn maggot coming sixth in the B&F! Who does he think he is?? Bloody hack, weak, bloody mongrel, shirt pulling bloody dog. Patooey!

That's all very well, but you conveniently leave out the compensation for Scully. We've done quite well in the end out of that entire fiasco. I take exception to anyone who expresses any reservations about receiving a PP deemed to be "not engaging their brains". Who the hell are you to judge that? The arrogance expressed in your posts sometimes defies belief. Maybe people don't feel comfortable with being considered a welfare club. A third expansion team. Maybe they think that with a rumoured $1-2 million dollar coach as part of yet another bailout provided by the AFL, the club might actually be able to actually get itself out of the hole without draft assistance this time, instead of always returning to the AFL with cap in hand. Maybe people just don't like the concept of a PP. I acknowledge that the club needs to become competitive and we are suffering at the hands of fools who have since left. The argument for a discretionary PP as it stands is there and it is sound. But this issue is not nearly as black and white as you present it as. I would suggest in fact it is you who is not engaging his brain for failing to recognise that.

Good luck to him. Happy if he stays on in some capacity but equally happy if he gets a senior gig at Brisbane. Good fella.

I have no idea who he is but he seems a likely candidate to join Satyr on my ignore list.

The guy is a [censored]. It's quite evident that whatever Melbourne does, King will find some fault with it. Ever since he went early on saying the Neeld appointment was a mistake, he's been intolerable. Moreso than usual.

I agree for the most part WYL. I absolutely hate the handout entitlement mentality and I think the word "deserve" should be banned from the debate. Having said that, I've adjusted my thinking on whether Melbourne needs a PP. The level of performance over an extended period is a strong indication that we do. We are just too many players short in the most important part of the ground. The club needs to start becoming competitive, and quickly.

Firstly, RPFC brought up the concept of "hurt", not me. His original statement was they haven't hurt. It's taken until now to define what he meant by "hurt", and I initially disagreed that it didn't cause immediate hurt in terms of results this year. As for flow-on effects from losing two senior and decent players, in any club, he nor you seem to give that any weight. I do. It goes without saying that the loss of two pivotal players like Frawley and Hogan would hurt more, so to present that as some sort of trump card is basically placing a different emphasis around what "hurts" a club. After the appalling treatment of Junior, I think the Moloney/Rivers decision cemented the reputation of Melbourne's ill-treatment of its senior players who have given the club good service. I also have already stated that I'm not Moloney's biggest advocate, but I think the "cancerous" label is overblown by fans on a footy forum that frankly don't know the full extent of the influence he had at the club, especially on the younger players. Jones' progression as a player, and his being quite open in attributing that to Moloney, says that it is overblown to some degree. No-one knows the full extent to which their leaving has hurt the culture and feeling around the club. Not you. Not RPFC. The early evidence, on field and off, suggests it wasn't good. The club has gone from crap to Fitzroy level, and now we are rebuilding. Again. There are many contributing factors to where we are. This, I believe, was one of them. I don't want to to see a repeat of the treatment of our senior players like this ever again. The results have spoken for themselves, and the impacts last longer than one single season.

I don't suppose it's at all possible for you to refrain from being a condescending [censored], is it? I know you seem to struggle with that, but give it a bash. I guess if that fails you can always fall back on your self-proclaimed brilliant comedic timing. Hogan and Frawley will ideally be playing when the side is challenging, hence why their loss as key players in the side would hurt more. That doesn't prove your original claim that the loss of Moloney and Rivers hasn't hurt, period. This season it most certainly did. For God's sake, look where the club is at right now. You don't get to this point without a whole series of poor decisions that dig you deeper and deeper. All clubs eventually move on, and we will be no different.

Granted, those would hurt MORE.

Okay. It seems this is somewhat splitting hairs, focused around what can be defined as "hurt". Were we a worse team with them gone? Yes. Will we be a worse off team next season with them gone? More than likely. That's two seasons where we unnecessarily lost two players who remember what it was like to play in a good Melbourne side and still had good footy ahead of them. After that they'd each be in their 30s and moving towards the finish line anyhow. Beamer has his critics, understandably. I've been one of them. But Nathan Jones pretty much credits him for where his game is at now, so he cant have been all bad. As for Rivers being a "culture cancer", I've only heard reports of how liked and respected he was at the club. After this season, the process of picking apart how it all went so horribly wrong surely must account for Moloney and Rivers moving on, in some way. I think it had a meaningful and immediate impact. Hopefully not one that resonates for too long.

Incidentally, saying that their inclusion equates to the 2012 side doesn't take into account the improvement of other players since then - Garland, Jones etc. Even when factoring that in, the side as a whole went backwards at a great rate of knots. 2012 was no picnic, but 2013, certainly the first half under Neeld, was an unmitigated disaster. You also have to factor in the message that their leaving sent to the playing group. The spirit was sucked out of this lot. It would be naive to think that wasn't a contributing factor.

Now you're arguing something slightly different. No-one mentioned medium and long term. The question is did the absence of Moloney and Rivers hurt this year. Yes, it did. They would also have been handy next season. You can't state we would've lost by 2 goals less as fact. Look at the impact Moloney had at Brisbane this year when he was allowed to play his natural game out of the middle. He likely would've been given the same freedom under Craig. Certainly, Nate Jones wouldn't have been our only clearance player. It's craziness to stick to this idea that losing two senior, quality players in a list that was already scraping the barrel in that regard hasn't had ramifications.

Output at the time being output under Neeld? Not exactly the best barometer of a player's talent. I'm not losing sleep over Petterd, I'm simply not agreeing that he's "crap", and I'm certainly not agreeing that the loss of Moloney and Rivers hasn't hurt or contributed towards what was season 2013.

Roos just nodded along and without flinching answered the question.. Honestly I think he 's coming. I'll be floored if he pulls out now.

I don't want to contemplate him pulling out. Would be the epitome of cruelty.

Healy is gonna scare him off. Shut up you pillock!

Still non-committal.

Says he'll make a decision by Tuesday next week.

Simply not true. He has played 11 games this season in a finals side, including the last three consecutive rounds. If you can tell me which injured player or players are going to come in to replace him, fine. Otherwise, to cast him off as a fringe player and liken him to Cheney at Hawthorn is doing him a disservice. Has his absence hurt like Moloney or Rivers? No. But he was good enough to keep on the list in my view.

For a crap player he's done well to make Richmond's best 22. A top 8 side. Dont defend Neeld's garbage oversight in assuming everything would be hunky dory without Moloney and Rivers. He was clearly wrong, and the handling of both players was wrong. C'est la vie. The story of this club's rubbish treatment of its senior players doesn't begin and end with Junior. It is all a contributing part of the environment that has led to this debacle of a season. This isn't a defence of Beamer's handling of the situation, btw. As for Terlich and Matt Jones, I admire what they have both been able to do as first year players. Immense really, all things considered. However at this stage I only see Terlich as a longer term prospect. Happy to be wrong, but if we're lacking 5 or 6 midfielders, 5 or 6 have to make way for those who are incoming.

Well this certain high profile player's demand was a decent coach. We've snagged the best one available.

This along with Viney's goal was the highlight of the day for me. Brought a smile from ear to ear. He's left some great memories.

Quality thread :D I'll admit I have pondered over #6. Lyon and Longmire are a couple of pretty handy underlings. But have they developed into the coaches they are today because of their tutelage under Roosy? Hm? Ah? Aaaah. Melbourne delivered his biggest ever loss as coach and it clearly left a mark on him. Maybe he's back to settle the score. Wipe us out completely from behind enemy lines.

Our clearances still need a tonne of work. Grimes has to stay in defence. This is already his best game of the year by some stretch.