P-man

I really find the attitude that high draft picks provide an answer to our woes quite staggering, considering our own history and the examples of other clubs that have built, and challenged, without them. A priority pick is so far down the order of needs that its main achievement is adding to the stigma of the pathetic nature of the club, with the hand always being held straight out with the palm facing up. My main reason for wanting one is not because I feel we need one, but to shove it up the noses of opposition clubs and supporters who strongly oppose it. I'm quite aware there are many out there who would much rather see the club die than become competitive. The extent of the vitriol leads me to want to see them cry some more. But outside of my desire to [censored] off the enemy, I don't want one, nor do I feel we need one. Sure, the rules are there and the club is simply seeking to have those rules applied. But if we can get by without one, why sacrifice even more self respect and pride for one? We're almost running on empty as it is. And hey presto, I'm drawn into the death spiral that is the PP debate again. Yee haw. I maintain that writing off JKH and Salem is evidence of how silly the argument has become. They haven't completed their first season yet.

This is where the accusations of overreaction come into play. If you remove the GWS game and convert a couple of those losses under a goal into wins, would we even be having this debate? I would suggest not. Saying you have doubts about JKH who is a first year player that has undeniably shown promise is a sign that the justifications for this are getting totally out of whack. Some faith needs to be placed in Roos' ability to develop the names that Quayle reels off. And despite this nightmare end to the season, the middle segment showed that the group is coachable. They just feel vulnerable at present with their careers on the line. I'm not defending that as a mindset, but it's a reality. Yes, we're bad, but we've seen light at the end of the tunnel at different stages this season. I know it's tough, really tough, but more patience is required.

Helpful in what sense? How is any discussion on here "helpful"? It's just a discussion. Your second line is precisely one of the reasons why we're in the position we are. Players waiting to be led.

IF Strauss played well, and that's a big if, but it's possible, then we'd cross that bridge. We can't delist half the squad. Some players will need to be kept for at least another year. I wouldn't mind seeing him have a couple of games to state his case, the same as Blease and Tapscott were given. How much more did Blease and Tapscott do really? The fact remains that in a team pleading for players with excellent kicking skills, we have one in waiting. He's just turned 24. He hits his theoretical peak in 2 years. Watch Demonland go into meltdown if Strauss goes to another club and in a year or two becomes a cemented 22 player, while Roos never gave him a chance. We're gonna get hammered anyway. Give him A chance. Even Evans and Nicholson have been granted that much.

My view is that team morale at the moment must be really, really low. As in low even by MFC standards. Partly because of where the club is at, but largely because most players have a target on their back come season's end. This is not a united team at present. I'll be surprised if the next couple of weeks aren't complete massacres. They want this season to be over.

Welcome to D'Land. Some good points alot of which I agree with, but none of which alleviate my continuing frustrations with him that I don't see improving to any significant degree and which are all but nullifying his worth on the field.

Ouch - you are taking "leave Jack alone!" to its extreme. He (currently) has trade value and he is unarguably our most high profile player. By all means create a "Dan Nicholson - Keep or Trade?" thread, but I'm not sure you'll be flooded with reseponses.

Oh god, the delusion when it comes to this guy just goes on and on and on.. Just face it. The penny isn't dropping and is showing little sign of dropping. I was one of the ones saying "the penny will drop" 3 years ago when the same arguments were being had about him. He isn't just an easy target. His lazy efforts do stick out as being particularly worse than others. Is he just unfit? Who knows. But he can't compete. Players like Watts--types who easily get outmuscled and have no appetitie for the contest--are not what we need in our position. We are a decade away from being in a position where Jack Watts would be a nice to have. He could well go to a top team and become a contributor. We are not a top team. We need 22 gut running soldiers if we are to ever get out of this god forsaken hole. I don't want to bash him and I'm sick to death of talking about him. I like him as a person and I still cheer when he does something worth cheering for. But the same issues aren't being rectified. They're arguably worsening. The change is surely needed in the interests of his own career, not just the interests of the club. A late first round or early second round and it should be taken. Another year like this one and we really will get nothing for him.

Me too. I just wanted to hear Roos take some responsibility, himself, for his coaching performance and his team which he selected and directed. Something that he failed to do in the presser. Robbo got that out of him, sort of. I'm a Roos fan but these are awkward times for him and the club.

I'm now in the trade camp. If you can stomach it, watch the GWS game again. His lethargy at times is...amazing. He will jog when he is within 5-10 metres of an opponent. He simply will not or can not apply real pressure. He can't win a contested ball. He can't keep his feet. There is so much that he can't do, but when he has time he will occasionally make a nice pass or a kick nice goal that rubs out everything else? Nah, doesn't work that way. He needs a new start under a new system. He has to go.

We are where we are due to mind boggling incompetence, not bad luck.

The least they can do is say we've bankrolled a super coach and helped to cherry pick a gun CEO, and its time you stood up for yourself as a club and develop talent organically like the Bulldogs, Richmond et al instead of this quick fix begging mentality you've developed. Then your future successes may actually be worth something. Then slam the door in our face.

Oh dear. Whatever.

He's well beyond NQR. He's DNR.

You're still going on with this? Trading Jones is INSANITY. The only circumstances in which it would be a good idea is if you want to kill the club. Your target is the single last person in line who should be a target.

With Hogan and Dawes (and Gawn?) I don't think it's as crucial a need as the lack of skills further up the ground. A large part of the reason were not scoring is we are bombing it in hope or continually kicking to the wrong spots. Another large part of why we're terrible is that we turn it over like we are giving away leather in a fire sale. When we improve our ball users, the rest will follow. Not to say that another tall forward isn't somewhere on the list of needs. And who knows. Maybe we'll finally get a piece of luck and a certain M Clark will decide he wants to play footy again.

These are surely priorities 1 & 2.

"No awareness and can't defend" Again, that describes the bulk of the those who played yesterday. Blease and Tapscott got a chance based on not alot more. I'd like to see him out there, but that's just me and I acknowledge it almost certainly won't happen now.

Dunn and Kent are two that I missed. Dunn should probably be in there. He's been back to very ordinary of late but if he can bring his early season form he's in. Kent has major question marks over what he does when we don't have the ball but could mount a case for him also.

One game OD. Out of a four game career. He's shown signs he can make smart decisions under pressure and can handle a direct opponent. I'd rather this not just be people critiquing my team. I'd like to see other's teams.

I'm jumping on this one early cause if think any more about the end to this season, I will be reaching for the pill bottle. I realise this is a tough exercise after yesterday but that's kinda the point. - Leave holes where you believe there are some. - Be as realistic as possible, i.e. don't post Jones and Hogan and leave 20 spots vacant. - Expect Saty to chuck a tanty (also known as a Satanty). Continue on regardless. My crack at it: B: Garland Dunn Jetta HB: Salem McDonald <vacant> C: Vince Jones <vacant> HF: Toumpas Hogan <vacant> F: Howe Dawes JKH R: Gawn Tyson Cross Int: Trengove Michie Viney Riley Barry A lot depends on Trengove and Toumpas coming good and having a belter of a pre-season, but three spots to fill isn't panic stations. I also believe Howe needs to be moved forward again next year. Intercept marks in the backline are nice but he is far more damaging taking grabs up the other end.

I realise that mate but when you get overrun by half a bottom side with 60 rotations, that's more than just ability. As bad as we've been, we've played ten times better this season than that garbage.

The feeling around the place right now can't be very good. Two thirds of them won't know if they'll be at the club next year, which for a lot of them will mean the end of their AFL career. It can't be an environment that lends itself to a unified feeling. This has to be taken into account when attempting to explain yesterday's abomination.

He couldn't possibly be. We have a very good kick and decisionmaker who can't get a game. Don't tell me he's less deserving than the blokes who collected their pay cheques yesterday. It's highly unlikely but I really see it as a nothing to lose situation now.

Play Strauss. Seriously. He can kick, which places him above 80% of those who took the field yesterday. If defensive accountability is the issue, he will be in good company. 100%DE last week wasn't it? Play him. Roll the dice. Nothing to lose.