DeeSpencer

They (the property developers/council whoever) have sold all the land surrounding the oval at Waverley for housing besides the 1 remaining section of the stands that is the Hawthorn base and can't be expanded. It was clearly a great investment when they moved out there but as other clubs have improved they've slipped down the ladder. I'm not sure 4th worst is exactly right, it's probably overstated but they are starting to miss out on things other clubs have. For comparison Essendon have 2 ovals (1 MCG size, 1 Etihad size) and an indoor training room.

Why do you think our list got so bad in the first place? Poor facilities turned away players and staff. The footy department and club couldn't be located near each other. The players and coaches were definitely put out by having to train at multiple venues. We trained in unprofessional venues and the players and list followed suit. But maybe more than anything the lack of a fixed asset hurt our financial position and will continue to do so with the big clubs - Ess, Haw, West Coast heading for massive training complexes. Toorak park is too small and utilised way too much to be a permanent training base. But a long term training base has to be very high on Peter Jackson and Glen Bartlett's priorities. Back to the topic. This is a smart initiative from the club to stage a night training session in preparation for Darwin and also train in the heartland. Should be a decent crowd if the weather holds up.

That was my postulating in regards to why we might make up to 4 changes despite a good win. Against GWS we had Dawes, Hogan and Frost. We just beat Geelong with Dawes, Howe and Spencer which is much less mobile. Dawes, Hogan and Spencer might not be perfect but it does give us some advantages and I wouldn't be surprised if Roos tries it. Many good teams continue to win playing tall and the bad teams continue to lose whilst looking for more run and versatility and sometimes it just isn't there. JKH had 9 goals in 14 games with quite a few as the sub last year. Not too bad. He hasn't kicked as many this year but 2 goals 3 at Casey on the weekend shoes he knows where the goals (and behinds) are. He reads the play well, has nice hands in traffic and can be creative with the footy. I would keep ANB and Stretch in ahead of him but maybe not Aidan Riley who hasn't scored yet from 4 games (2 as sub), has 8 goals from 25 games and is really a midfielder instead of a half forward.

I agree about exposing a teams backline. I think you should predominantly pick the best side you've got to play your way and win on your terms regardless of opposition too much. But I disagree about Dawes. I think Hogan can take Howe's spot close to goal. The ruckman can play as they did. Dawes can keep his lead up CHF style spot. Which then does beg the question of what to do with Howe. If Howe can provide the work rate and defensive pressure of one of the smalls (ANB, Stretch, Brayshaw etc) then it will all function. It also probably means giving him a stint each quarter on a wing which he should be able to handle. This probably won't be popular but we could try Hogan for the first time in the Roughy role. If he's playing deep forward he could rest up much more and be unleashed for a 3 minute or so burst on the ball just for something different. The Dawes-Hogan-Ruckman combination is big. But not so big as to be impossible. If Howe can play small it can work and I guess we will find out soon enough if they are game to try it.

I agree but: - Hogan and Garland are clear best 22. Hogan and Garland in - The ruck advantage we had against Geelong won't be the same against West Coast and Hogan adds another tall to the forward line. Spencer, Howe or Dawes out? - West Coast have 3 dangerous key forwards (Kennedy, Darling, Sinclair) who need manning, where Geelong was really just Hawkins as a threat. Fitzy in? - JKH is a half forward flanker. That's his position. Bail, Riley, ANB (despite his success in hitting the scoreboard) really don't fit that role. He's also had success in the sub role. JKH in? I see Garland for Bail, Hogan for Riley with either ANB, Stretch, Toumpas or possibly Howe as the sub as the most logical moves. But both JKH and Fitzy are worth the question and the role of Spencer is certainly worth considering as the forward line will be heavily cluttered with Hogan back. The top teams make lots of changes these days. I think Sydney and Hawthorn rarely go unchained. They bring injured players back. Pick the right players for the right conditions/match ups and they rotate fringe and young players to develop their games and the list. Fringe or young players coming in and doing their job but losing out to more experienced or a different role player shouldn't be seen as a bad thing, it should be part of being a maturing list and team and finding a consistent best 22.

Just a tip but a 5 man forward line with a loose man behind the ball will not be conducive to stopping WC getting easy fast entries. They'll waltz the ball out of their backline and straight in to the forwards if we start a loose. We are better off starting the 6 forwards. Using Dawes and others as lead up forwards to hopefully take McGovern (and Hurn, Yeo and Shepherd) away from his intercept marking to then isolate the dangerous forwards deep. Stopping West Coast forwards will be a handfull and we will need good defending once the ball goes in to our backline and composed rebounding and of course we will need to win the midfield battle which will be much harder than against the Cats. But moving the ball with composure and putting on some scoreboard pressure as we did against the Cats might be the biggest challenge.

Interesting VFL review. Fitzy and JKH in contention for Darwin Seems the youngsters in King, Harmes, McDonald and White got beaten but missing so many other MFC players probably made it tough. I like that they are given roles and held to a standard not just set aimlessly to go play as they like. The comments around King sound promising that it was a good learning experience. Disappointing that VIv had a downer after such a consistent run of VFL form even if he couldn't repeat that at AFL level and Terlich went full Terlich.

Fitzy played a few games then was injured. Newton had a good run of regular games to start the year. Your mate Viv has had a rough run of it but that's the life of a depth player who hasn't taken his chances. Getting dropped back to VFL games still provide a chance to impress. The club have done a decent job of rotating who misses games as the travelling/held over emergency as well.

I don't think we need to play him to give him another year. I really think he's almost done enough. He's doing what the coaches want and improving. Fitzy is probably the one from our list who I want to see the most of at AFL level as he's shown he can dominate the VFL forward, back or in the ruck yet never settled at the top level.

Rotations might drop but they might introduce the 4th bench spot back, which could get interesting to see if teams rotate 2 rucks through the bench and keep 2 or even 3 key forwards on the field. I still think positional versatility will stay important and the option of a forward/ruck who gets to get in to the game in the middle then swap forward will still be handy. It will save on bench rotations as well.

I'm not sure we are getting Brayshaw level players out of many picks in the draft after pick 3 any time soon and having a few more experienced guys on the list helps for a few reasons I think. Mainly: 1). Older guys get less injuries, giving you more depth to choose from 2). They train harder, better and for longer letting you raise the training standard overall 3). Consistency and leadership at Casey. You don't want guys who have given up on their AFL dreams but 1 or 2 guys who spend more time that not at VFL I think helps develop the kids you've got down there as well as giving the VFL team a base to work from Existing contracts, a shallow draft and less players to trade out will probably keep our list changes down from the levels reached the last 2 years which is ok. We might not reach the perfect list of 44 without any guys we perceive as lucky to have a contract next year but that's ok. I get the feeling those who do narrowly avoid the chop this year will put in a huge preseason to save their careers and compete for a game knowing the list pressure is starting to build.

Hogan and Dawes are our starters with Pedersen the depth. None of those 3 can adequately ruck. Pedersen is the best but he's only about 195cm and if you look at the current top 4 in Freo, Haw, Syd and WC they all have back up rucks at 200cm (Clarke, Hale, Tippett, Sinclair). Max King is the only player on our list who has the skills and build to play forward and ruck and he's still probably a year away from even getting a taste of AFL footy. Fitzpatrick is currently a key defender. Gawn and Spencer are really ruckman only. Gawn has shown some aptitude as a forward but it's not his real position and in the absence of another ruck who play well forward it's unlikely he could play well for 70% of a game there. Splitting Gawn and Spencer is risk/reward and suboptimal as Roos alluded to post game. So in summary we need a young key forward anyway to give 3 or so years building their body now to replace Pedersen and Dawes and if that player isn't 198cm+ and we don't have confidence in Max King we need another of his type of forward/ruck player. We don't have to chase them as a priority but with later picks needs trump best available and unless we changed our minds on either of Frost, Fitzpatrick or Oscar McDonald as forwards I think we'd be wise to draft another.

Conflicting battles between 2 rucks and the Darwin conditions. Hogan and Garland should come back if fit. JKH has to be at least in consideration for the sub at minimum. Fitzpatrick is an interesting match up to give us the 2nd ruck and to give us the extra tall defender, as good as Garland can be at times I don't like the match up of him on Sinclair or Darling. I believe our best team would actually be: FB: Jetta Dunn Garland HB: Cross McDonald Lumumba C: Toumpas Jones Watts HF: Brayshaw Dawes M Jones FF: Garlett Hogan Howe Foll: Gawn Vince Viney Int: Tyson JKH Stretch/Fitzy S: ANB Out: Bail, Spencer, Riley +/- Stretch In: Garland, Hogan, JKH +/- Fitzy But I almost expect Roos will just go for Hogan, Garland in - Bail, Riley out and I can respect that. Rewarding Spencer for his good form and having the 2 rucks certainly wouldn't hurt. I'm not sure can play 3 talls and Howe in the same forward line but I guess if it happens we will find that out as well. It would certainly test the Eagles backline but at the same time they'd run all over us if we weren't holding marks.

A selfish perspective no doubt but I still think it's a shame Barry couldn't reconnect with his family in the offseason then find a way to keep that bond whilst down in Melbourne and keep giving AFL a crack. Tambling especially and Patrick had a crack at it and eventually finished up their careers when they weren't up to it. I'm not saying Dom did the wrong thing I'm just saying he's still playing footy for NT Thunder. So that means he's travelling to Darwin, NSW or QLD every week to play in the NEAFL. In a way both the thread title and video title are wrong from Barry's point of view. He didn't give up footy and it seems the elite AFL challenges weren't really the problem (although you wonder if the reports about him slacking in the preseason which were denied might've been true). The main issue seems he couldn't be involved in his community and play AFL football with geography probably the biggest challenge more than anything. If there was a team based in Alice he could probably do both, unfortunately there isn't.

Wasn't so much as trade as him being sacked by Carlton and us giving them a cursory draft pick for the rights to him. He picked us over Essendon and I'm very glad he did and I think a lot of clubs would be feeling foolish not to have sounded him out. Time will tell I guess. Some players need to be moved on for the greater good. That might have been Garlett at Carlton. It's just very unlikely that we got the chance to pick someone up in that situation and a credit to everyone but mainly to Jeff that he's back enjoying his footy.

Nope. Today reaffirmed why he's not a regular forward. Doesn't get the ball enough, probably doesn't read the play well as a forward, isn't creative or hard working enough with his leading and running when forward of the ball. Intercept possessions aren't as good as goals but they are super valuable and he can bring them down back whilst also stopping his opponent. The reality is that when in form of course he's a forward. Anyone who can take a grab and slot a goal should be as near to the sticks as possible. But if he doesn't work to find the ball or defensively then he needs to be trained up to do that. For some players that means the backline and for some that switch is permanent. That's what happened for Andrew Mackie who was a very similar forward to Howe back in his day and thrived at half back. He's far from the complete package as a footballer but I'd rather the players pump him up and we stay positive than focus on what we can't change in regard to his contract negotiations and/or desire for a trade.

Staying or going he needs to play well for the next 11 weeks. Sometimes I think guys in contract years let the media speculation get to them and then their form dips and the pressure builds and it all gets hard. Coming off an interrupted preseason and being swapped back to the forward line there's probably a bit of pressure on Howe. There's nothing lost in trying to support him a bit. 2 goals and a direct score assist from the tap down, if he's going to have a super quite game then this was a good type of one to have.

The only thing I don't get with Dunn is how he lets forwards mark the ball a good 5-10m ahead of him. Yeah I get that he's been out bodied or blocked and the forward has got the break but would it kill him to then charge out to catch up and at least get in camera. You never know when a forward will double grab one and what seemed like a pointless effort just became a worthwhile one. Footsteps etc. I don't know, maybe it's just me. But it seems he either wins the contest or if he's well beaten he gives up a little.

He's probably the best player to get a head coaching job if you take out those who were gifted the role at their former clubs - a list that includes Roos but mainly I mean Voss, Buckley and Hird. Now that counts for little overall but I think the great players who were often great captains/leaders get respect and get the players to play for them very naturally. If McCartney helps him with the teaching then that's teaching and motivation ticked off which is probably 2/3rds of the coaching puzzle. When Roos goes maybe we can snaffle someone from the Hawks system for some tactical advice and we might have most bases covered.

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2015-06-21/secondgamer-saves-watts-blushes Ignore the ridiculous headline. Check where ANB comes from in this clip. He's next to Lumumba when he kicks. Then next to Jones when he kicks. Then gets the jo the goose. Fantastic.

I love the Jones and Vince combination. They look for each other and share the ball and are playing like team mates. That makes such a difference to Jones I'm sure. With Viney tagging and other mids running through it makes a great combination.

Love that Gawn referenced the game shown on fox footy during the week when Melbourne beat Geelong down there. Belief goes a long way. Hopefully we get more of it.

Spencer certainly helped Gawn and they both did enough forward, but you'd think ideally against such a non ruck of Walker than Dawes could've held his own and Hogan would've given us even more up forward. But the 2 rucks brought dominance at the contest and did enough forward to make it work. We all know the answer is a good forward/ruck player who can legitimately play 30% in the ruck to give Gawn a chop out and still be useful forward. In the mean time its about picking the 3 or 4 who actually bring the most competitive output.

Both Cross and Watts have been going 3rd man up for a lot of this year. Watts did it effectively against the Dogs. 3rd man up is useful against a good ruck, but it's not very often you can get a free man to go 3rd man up and then also outnumber a team in the direction that the 3rd man hits it. Most of the time it's just moving the problem, which is fine against a team with a dominant ruck or a particularly good clearance midfielder, but I don't think it's a substitute for winning a clear hit out to advantage.

He'll certainly have to work on his speed but not to a crazy extent. In every confident good game he plays he looks quick. When he's chasing tail and not getting the ball he looks slow. Sidebottom is a gun outside mid without a lot of speed. He does have a lot of other great traits (marking, dual sided kicking) but mainly he reads the play so well and has such a great work rate that he can be slow. The other comparison I'll make is Nathan Jones. He went from a pretty slow player in his early years to now playing very fast. More fitness and speed training would've helped with that but mainly it was about adapting to AFL level. Andrew Gaff might be a top 5 outside mid in the comp and he's not that quick. We certainly need more pace on the field in a lot of spots and a lightning fast wingman would be lovely but mental quickness and work rate beats speed 9 times out of 10. It's why Lewis Jetta barely touched it in last years grand final and why Crossy can tag guys way quicker than him.