DeeSpencer

Yep we really need a base, but at the same time we need to make Casey work whilst we've got it. I think PJ explored moving away from Casey and the numbers didn't add up without a base. Soldier on with what we have for now and constantly be on the lookout for something like Elsternwick. I still think a public-private partnership with a council and a private school might be the best bet, particularly around women's football. If you look at the Melbourne private schools that are located in our heartland area the boys schools all have footy ovals either on campus or located at a sports precinct. The girls schools - St Caths, Lauriston, MLC, MGGS etc are lucky to have more than just a grass space. They have the ability to raise money, they have political influence and if women's football takes off they are going to need facilities and well maintained ovals.

Max played a straight bat but it's pretty clear to me Goodwin is lighting a fire under Watts for a pedestrian preseason given the talent and strides he made last year. Watts had a great year, but he's still an unusual player because he's 196cm tall but doesn't use that height all that often as a tall structural player and his defensive pressure is really poor for a guy of his mobility. At his best he's great, when he's off he doesn't add much to the team. Our rebuild is a bit like Richmond's who got a bunch of stars but they failed to build the depth and versatility in how they played and were found out in finals. Watts reminds me of someone like Shane Edwards who was very good for a few years but never fired in a final and fell away this year. We need to make sure Watts isn't the same kind of player (even if he's 6 inches taller). The challenge to Watts: - If you want Spencer's 2nd ruck spot - make sure you are super fit and can run around the ground when in the ruck because we can't give you 3rd up help. - If you want Weid's 2nd key forward spot - make sure you are strong in the air and forcing contests - If you want Vanders' mid sized spot - then run super hard to present an option and most importantly chase and tackle with intent.

I think I said this in another thread but anyway. I went to quite a few trainings pre xmas. Not may after. He's looked the good skill wise and they haven't done much pure fitness work so it's hard to tell where he's at that way. He was quite in the intraclub but not the only one and it was a short hit out. Physically he looks pretty much the same. He's certainly not the strongest built nor the leanest. I had my own suspicions on the hair dye job at the time but it's really not useful to add more speculation to a thread full of it.

That would be one heck of an ambush marketing campaign. But I don't think it's worth selling our dignity. I've got faith in PJ that he's out there working on a deal but it's a tough environment and the new Netball league and AFLW hasn't helped. At least he can be positive (for now anyway) that the team has something worth investing in.

I think Goffy summed it up pretty well. Viney had a hip problem and slowed down. Hogan was carrying a sore knee. Stretch, Oliver, Oscar, Petracca, Hunt, Harmes all played a lot of footy. I would've liked to have seen more resilience but the Hawthorn win was the grand final for the players last year and then they had to go again against Port, Carlton and Geel. They did the job against Port but then were found out for mental toughness against Carl. There's a week and a half between the 2nd and 3rd Preseason games and another 2 weeks until the real stuff starts. There's no excuse in being tired for early season rounds. Then hopefully we can manage players through the season.

Pre christmas I remember his class standing out a bit. I didn't go much after christmas. He was pretty quiet in the intraclub but did the full training session as far as I could recall. I wouldn't actually be disappointed if Goodwin was cracking the whip. Quite the opposite.

PRIMARY LIST: Sam Frost - ? available Colin Garland (emerg) - available Mitch Hannan - rehab group Michael Hibberd - rehab group Liam Hulett - available Neville Jetta - rehab group Dion Johnstone (emerg) - available Ben Kennedy - rehab group Dean Kent - rehab group Mitch King - rehab/doesn't need to play Pat McKenna - available Cameron Pedersen - available Jack Trengove (emerg) - available Dom Tyson - just back to full training Jack Watts - unknown Judging from the preseason training the rest of the rookies aren't immediately pressing the best 22 right now so probably no urgent need to play them unless we have injuries and let's just forget about Lumumba. Not sure about Frost and Watts, I guess that will be clarified soon. I'd like to see Trengove, Johnstone, Garland, Hulett, McKenna and Pedersen all play in the 2nd game. Goodwin seems to favour playing the best team but I would've thought Gawn, Hogan, Jones, Viney, Lewis could be rested and a couple of others swapped out. Plus Tyson, Hibberd and Jetta if they are fully right to go.

24 players got significant game time after Wagner's injury. Watts comes in for one of Weed or Spencer. Then a couple of running players have to come out and the question will be who else from outside yesterday comes back in. Viney, Jones, Oliver took up the starting inside mids yesterday. Salem played a lot of midfield, although I'd imagine come the real stuff he'd float a bit more especially if Tyson comes back in. Brayshaw mid forward. Lewis wing/half back/midfield. Bugg and Stretch ran the wings. Melksham and Vince played half back. I can't really see Trengove overtaking any of those guys although one of that group might miss out. Vanders, ANB, Harmes and JKH played half forward flank with some midfield time amongst that group, with Harmes going down back a bit as well. That's probably the group Trenners has to get ahead of to get in to the team and then shuffle players around to find the right team balance. Vanders was messy with the ball but tackled strongly. ANB actually played very well, used the ball cleanly most of the time. JKH found some space and linked up, he was running hard both ways. Harmes struggled to get in to the game up forward and went down back. I hope Trenners gets a run next week. I'd be very surprised if he does well enough to get in to the round 1 side especially if Tyson gets back by then but he'll get his chance during the year I'm sure.

He's not Jack Viney but I wouldn't call him soft. The one thing Salem does is try to win possession with an eye on what he's doing next, so he's protecting himself from contact. Guys like Viney and Oliver don't worry about that because they have the strength, agility and grunt to just deal with what comes. I actually think Jordan Lewis is more like Salem than a big body bull.

The disposal I can probably live with for a preseason game. I'm more worried about other parts of his game: 1. Why does he get led to the ball by someone as cumbersome as Cloke? 2. How often does a forward gather the ball in front of him and he meekly reaches for their waist and doesn't lay a big tackle 3. He still gets caught between marking and spoiling a lot of the time. Fly for the mark or lay a clear fist on it. 4. He drops his head and spits chips after every goal conceded by him or the team. Poor leadership.

Oscar a shocking turnover kick on the run early, then steadied. He's a better kick from a standing start than on the run. He seemingly can't run, look up and kick at the same time. He reads the play well then attacks the contest with no force or conviction. A lot of the time when the ball gets over the back of a contest it's because he and/or Tom couldn't lay a decent fist in to it despite making good position. I really hope Tom was rusty. If he doesn't get more aggression as well he'll be a pretty ordinary player soon.

I'm not an expert but I think if the scan shows it's all back and place and no damage then it will just be the usual, rest, immobilisation, ice, gradual build up of exercise until he's back. Wagner battled through a knee last year so even if unrelated they might take a bit of time to maybe strengthen him up but that's just a guess.

I'll defend Hunt and Brayshaw's games today. Both were messy with the ball but fantastic without. Hunt's defending was good and he ran all day until he was stuffed. His ball use will always be his flaw but today didn't bother me. The difference with Hunt and Melksham was Hunt was taking the game on and then stuffing up. Melksham was making really unusual decisions in the 2nd half. Kicking, hand-balling or paddling the ball with no rhyme or reason. Brayshaw kept bobbing up in good spots, had uncustomary fumbles I'm sure he'll get rid of and his tackling is a cut above the rest of the team. I think he'll come good quickly.

Our better players seemed to play for longer and we wanted it more. Dogs had the skills (except for infront of goal). We had the endeavour. Negative first: We are still the same team with similar issues - backline ball use, the McDonald's were pretty ordinary (what's new) and Melksham started well then went to water, hopefully just fatigue. Lewis helped. Vince was good then went crazy Bernie - inconsistent forward pressure. A lot of the forwards don't do enough and some just make bad choices all going to the same target - overall kicking just misses too many simple targets which means forwards fly for the same ball - handballs stay in close far too much - Defenders make some pretty silly choices to rush out of the zone when a team mate has the player under pressure Positives: Salem. In the midfield or wherever I don't mind! Joel Smith - does a lot of good football things not just athletic ability Spencer - becomes an option for the team but just as importantly he's actually up to depth standard if this is any guide Midfield is up and running and versatile Aerial contests at both ends - forwards and rucks jumping in to each other. Multiple defenders (Multiple McDonald's) going up and not getting a comprehensive spoil. From a game plan point of view I thought we need to be careful not spreading to both sides of the ground too much. If there's a contest on a wing after we've spread from the backline we then have guys way out of position. The zone worked pretty well. The forward pressure was better even if not perfect.

Proximal tib - fib dislocation. Feel the bone on the side of your knee just below the joint. That's the head of your fibula. It joins the tibia there. Depends on how it settles but might only be off legs for a few days or a week and can start rehab. Hopefully under a month.

A quick ball movement style does sound good to me. We'll play defenders who can run and intercept and not be afraid of conceding a few goals and we should move the ball and look to score. Win more than we lose out of the middle and then in a fast paced open game you've got the advantage and just need to execute. I'm worried we'll still be short on the ideal composure from the backline and knowing when to slow down and share the ball a bit. Sometimes you have to tease out an opening in a teams defending, you can't always counter. Also I'm worried our forward line is just a little short on goal kickers and just a little short on guys who can make that inside 50 kick. So it won't all work perfectly. But hey, let's have a go. Young teams are meant to be fearless, fast and aggressive.

These words do mean little but I prefer the positive connotations with being fearless compared to Neeld's game plan which pretty much came down to parking the bus and kicking it down the boundary.

Always very hard to know what assistant coaches contribute. Chaplin wasn't a great athlete or superbly skilled so he made a career of being a smart footballer in the right spots. Probably the best thing you can say for Chaplin is that after being at Richmond for half a season in 2013 Alex Rance suddenly started playing a lot better and went from an ok young player with some upside in to one of the games very best key defenders. Seems like he'll work with the forwards at the Dees but he's going to know what defenders don't like.

Like anyone associated from that time at Melbourne you never know how much was there fault and how much was other peoples and part of the culture of failure. Got some decent late picks with Gawn and Jetta, even big Fitz offers more than most late picks. Scully and Trengove were no brainers if we didn't like Dustin Martin. Watts might even have been the right choice if developed properly. Gysberts had the talent. Strauss, Blease and Tapscott were the 3 top picks that really look bad in hindsight. All 3 had persistent and continuous injuries. But they also had big flaws. Maybe those first 2 don't break their legs and Blease gets a tank developed from an early age and Strauss gets confidence beating up on Eddie Betts and playing consistently. Neither had the work ethic or confidence which sums up MFC at that time. The stories about Rory Sloane just make me mad. Maybe Barry P had the right idea and somehow we Melbourne'd him in to picking the wrong players.

Foxtel likely put the foot down after recently getting fox footy as part of their tablet service - foxtel go or whatever they call it. Some people are saying the terms and conditions still say it will work on Ipads. So they've got a fight on their hands. Most footy media will be too compromised to touch this issue but someone will.

Seems like it's all stuffed anyway. Get a VPN and buy the international version is one idea I've heard of questionable intent.

Good luck to him. In an ideal world I would've kept him but I understand why they moved him on given they were stuck with Garland as depth and had Frost and Oscar. He looks fitter and should bounce back to pretty solid form and his kicking will help the Pies. I'll miss his ability to win some decent one on ones and kick a long goal or long switching kick but I'll appreciate Frost's athleticism and Oscar's work rate and height. When you've got 3 imperfect options it's not unreasonable to back in the younger two.

What's your method of watching it? Phone, Ipad etc? There's a lot of info on bigfooty and whirlpool that might be helpful.

I don't know about that. The way our game plan and most other teams work is that they sling shot the ball from turnovers and that means you need to have speed and power at half forward. In the midfield and at half back you can have smart footballers who run hard not fast, but to break zone backlines you need speed to burn and ability to force and win contests. We don't kick the ball well enough or open space well enough to finesse the ball forward. We need players capable of generating their own space through hard and fast running across half forward. Wings are about endurance and pace is needed but more so to out run your opponent and break lines with the ball - if you're fast like Isaac Smith you can do that in a tighter space and get out quicker and steady up, if you're slower like a Sidebottom you need more space or sharper skills. Inside mids just have to clock up the kms and not let opponents run away from you at stoppages, so it's more about balance in the rotation. There's a role for Trengove on ball and as a utility but even without injuries he wasn't quick so he has to show various facets of his game. Suspensions aside he was a very good tackler but not a great clearance player, so I expect that to still be the case. He'll have to have improved his inside game and then he'll have to be strong over head and really good with his ball use. There's a reason the Hawks weren't unhappy pushing Lewis and Mitchell and there's a reason Geelong were desperate to push Bartel. The game is getting faster every year.

The encouraging thing about the Demons recent build has been we have some confidence in Misson in fitness, Viney as list manager, Taylor in recruiting, Mahoney as GM football and several of the assistant coaches. I think a big part of why unstable programs don't succeed is because every time they fire a coach they have to rebuild most of their football department and do that without any football IQ around the place. As Dees fans we know all about that. Not to be too negative but I think we might have to make some big calls over the next few years if things aren't going to plan - be that on coaches, players, footy department staff etc but this time it shouldn't be a panicked tear down job like in years previous but actually informed decision.