DeeSpencer

Thanks for the post Tom. Welcome to Demonland. We should be having a good look through the state and local leagues/delisted players for a young 198cm+ forward with ruck stop gap potential or a ruck with upside. 21-24 year old range. Someone like when the Bombers added Shaun McKernan. Or really just a younger, taller, more agile Cam Pedersen. Adding a player of Campbell's age would just clog up the list and Casey.

Hard worker, good cultural guy, helped dig us out of the hole but at least at Melbourne his body couldn't find any burst speed around the packs so other mids who had it went passed him and that's clearly an issue on the outside as well. North are pretty well stocked for mids as well so I'm expecting they plan on maybe getting a number of games out of him next year then using him as depth on a cheap contract for 2020/2021. They'll be times where I miss his clean and at times creative hands around the ball, plus his willingness to run for the outside ball, but there's other things I'm sure we all won't miss.

Max Gawn's busted toenails on his Instagram are a good enough reason to trade for a big ruck. Liking this. Not convinced he and Gawn will play together, especially against the best sides. But the ability to not over do Max through the season is vital. Got to keep your best players fit and healthy through the season, they are the ones that matter come crunch time.

No panic. Freo know we want to deal, they've made a smart low ball offer, we've rejected it. Until they even get pick 5 for Neale they can't offer it. We just have to wait it out a bit. The good news is they offered pick 11 to us now rather than dealing it for Lobb.

So instead of getting a gun full back the plan is to just throw Tom McDonald back, even though he's our best key forward, and just hope his lack of agility and horrendous kicking from the backline have just fixed themselves? What kind of plan is that? Trading from pick 14 back to 20, then adding a pick 3, it accounts to Hogan being worth pick 1. Then he won the Rising Star, he was probably still worth pick 1 if not more. But it's been 3 years since and apart from injuries and personal issues he just hasn't looked like a true superstar. He doesn't kick huge bags of goals, he doesn't take over games regularly, he doesn't do the freakish. Plenty of players have won the Rising Star and become good players without ever being of the same value. Don't act like Hogan is similar to someone like Buddy or Nick Riewoldt, it just isn't true. The Dogs gave Boyd the 2nd biggest contract in the history of the game. A mistake but a mistake they were always going to trade for. He was a pick 1 who they thought would play like a pick 1 - ignoring the more recent history of pick 1's and the evolving nature of the game. Griffen was 28 and banged up that year, no team apart from the pick rich Giants would've offered more than 1 first round pick, but it doesn't really matter. Boyd was still a rare overpay, there's no point comparing. Pretty much it comes down to the fact the Dees are happy to trade Hogan for a reasonable deal, not just the massive mega deal. If they weren't it wouldn't have got this far.

North drafted a youngster - Xerri - who they have high hopes for as the future after Goldstein in 2-3 years. They aren't in the premiership window and are trying to accumulate players who will help them win games whilst still keeping their salary cap open for big name recruits. Tyson makes sense because he'll help them win games and they can front load him in 2019 and have a very cheap depth player in 2020/21. We are closing in on a premiership window - if all goes to plan - and need a back up ruck. A must have when in the window. We haven't been able to draft one so we'll pay for one. He's not perfect - not really a forward and needs to work on his fitness, but he has enough size, strength and competitiveness to fill in for Max if needed and wouldn't be the worst up forward either.

I'd say only partially related. Certainly it pushed Tyson another spot lower on the depth chart and surely increases the desire to get away from his salary. I expect we would've done it anyway.

My read on this draft from some trusted types is there's somewhere between 7-12 really super players, where most drafts have maybe 3 top liners and another 4 or so highly rated. After that it's back to normal business (and a bit shallow in the later rounds). So if the plan is to trade Hogan for May and a draft pick that Jason Taylor can use then I don't really care if it's Freo's pick next year, or this years pick 15 or pick 25. I certainly wouldn't cave but if there's pressure on to do a deal then I'd do the deal. I'm more in favour of getting in some viable assets with a lot of late swaps - especially now that live draft trading can occur. So if the second part of the Hogan deal is a later pick but it comes with some 3rd round and future pick upgrades then I'd do that. Hogan for May is what our team needs. Getting the extra value that we deserve can come in a lot of ways, the idea that a straight up top 10 pick is also needed is too ambitious.

That sounds about right to me. Still think it waits until the May deal, both clubs will want to work the little trade around the big trade.

Better news from Clark and Warner. 5 and 16 would do me. 5 and 21 would as well really. I'll even give Brisbane a 3rd rounder to send to Freo to move the Neale deal along!

Struggled in most of his early games but his game against the Giants was fantastic and he did some things against us as well. Has a bit of grunt in him as well as the Long/Rioli genes for pressure and tackling. He'd be a very good pick up but clearly the Saints know his quality. Express some interest now and try to get him to remain uncontracted until next years trade period.

Well he doesn’t ruck, he doesn’t tackle, he doesn’t crash packs and bring the ball forward to crumbers and he doesn’t set goals up with inside 50 kicks. Not saying he’s goals or nothing but in the role he was playing he needed to crash packs or kick goals He’ll be 28 and age is a huge factor. GC have just been given 3 priority picks with mature age players. I can see them getting a mid first round pick, but another pick 3 or 4 would be too much. They AFL would rather give them more mature age guys again, which this time the Suns probably trade and get some extra mid round picks. If he’s restricted GC can match and force a trade especially if they’ve sorted out their salary cap. That might be more of a concern than the compo.

Almost every team we played sent their best defender to T Mc from the week he came back. And often sent their 2nd best defender to Petracca or Melksham. Maybe Hogan can adapt, maybe he was injured, but T Mc looked the better CHF of the 2 and Hogan became an incredible inefficient inside 50 target apart from against bad teams where he got repeated easy chances

Not sure we'll sign him for a long term deal. The reality is the forward line functions better without him with a gun CHF in his position and a promising young tall developing. Obviously there's a lot of footy that can change things as the year goes on but if he's not traded then at least until the games start we're dealing with the same issues. Plus he has to rehab his foot. Chances are we do the whole thing again next year, this time without a gun key defender available. Might be a long year for Jesse dealing with injury, maybe even learning a new position, not having a long term deal on the table and having an immense amount of media scrutiny.

Tyson will play VFL unless 2 or more of Oliver/Viney/Gus/Harmes/Jones and likely several others are injured. A back up ruck is an asset worth somewhere between picks 30 and 50. A back up midfielder in Tyson has similar value. North are probably only interested in Tyson because they can give him a restructured contract that is frontloaded for 2019 and then have him as cheap depth for 2020 and maybe longer whilst they chase the big fishies.

Tyson isn't a walk up start at the Bombers. He'd give them more competition in a role where they are weaker than us, but he'd still be behind Merrett, Heppell, Zaharakis and Dev Smith and most likely behind Myers who finally got it together this year. So really he'd be competing with the likes of Parish and Langford for centre square minutes. He doesn't have equal value to a player like Tippa who plays an important role in a difficult to find position. And he certainly doesn't have more value to an extent that Essendon would entertain yet alone even do that trade.

You're mad if you think our depth player who would we'd gladly send to a good home, where he'd only compete to improve them would somehow net us a contracted best 22 important player from another club. Even more mad if you think just throwing Garlett in - who should be retiring - would help.

In Australia, truth is a lousy defence. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/10891881/Restaurant-owners-win-libel-damages-over-scathing-review-after-11-year-legal-battle.html I don't think Chook will end up in a legal case but these things are left unsaid. And I also don't think there's all too much out of the ordinary in any of these Hogan rumours - just Tom Browne doing some muck raking. There's a decent football case to be made for Melbourne trading Hogan and for Freo picking him up. In the end that should prevail.

That's fair. Hopefully May achieves what he's bought here to do in the same way Tyson did. And I guess with Dom it seems unlikely he'll contribute a lot to us after this year, but maybe we can turn him in to a player that does. That's one of true skills in list management, knowing when to flip a player and get a replacement. No one did it better than the Hawks after '08, trading premiership players for assets that helped in their next run.

Rams, Packers, Cowboys

T Mac was a football eternity ago. Oscar might not be any good, there's a big thread here about finding a replacement. Fritsch and Spargo were early/mid 2nd rounders. Hannan was our first pick in the draft that year, you'd hope someone you like gets through to pick 46. Certainly some good later picks in the Jason Taylor era - it's a big part of why we all rave about him - but the better the pick the better the odds of finding more talent. I'm not suggesting we take the lead of some of the clubs who think trade week is a chance for club staff to make a name for themselves with empty tough talk, but we aren't the battlers any more desperate to do deals to get talent. Could be the year for us to dig our heels in over some deals.

A back up ruck is a back up ruck, they stay on the list for ages. He's the right age that 4 years wouldn't bother me all that much if it's what it takes to get him. The promise of more game time concerns me more. A bigger goal square or 6-6-6 doesn't change my opinion that the game is still massively decided by pressure - applying it and avoiding it. Unless the game plan is the bomb it down the line and play very negative football I don't see going overly tall working for us.

The recent record of delistings also shows me they haven't nailed enough late picks. King, Flipper, DJ, McKenna + Balic (both free to good home trades we took a punt on instead of a late pick), Hulett last year. I know the strike rate isn't great at these spots, but fighting for every little bit at the back end helps the recruiters. We've certainly done well with recent trades, but there's no reason not to even better! KK isn't easy to get a value on, our 2nd round pick probably not a terrible deal but the Suns will probably have a lot of late picks they won't even use, I'd want to get some late picks or upgrades coming back. And of course the reality is any KK even done separately will be linked with a potential May deal so I'm not sure I particularly believe the optimism that it will be done quickly.

Not sure the Giants have done anything wrong. They got a truckload of talent, gave away the guys they didn't want and kept most of the best ones and have been in contention for 3 straight years. They are looking to move Shiel on now a year before he's a free agent so they can sure up the rest of their list, make a serious play to keep Kelly and get better value now than free agency compo in a year. That said, they'll surely be keen on Shiel picking the Saints or Blues. If he picks the Hawks they've got their work cut out to get a good deal. Maybe if he picks the Hawks they just keep him and trade out Lobb, Finlayson and if the rumours are true Scully?