DeeSpencer

Not bad, not terrible. Just needed to slot the easy goal and hold a couple he got hands to. Searching for the body is a phase young forwards go through. I’d still love to play him down back for a while to get him some simple touches but he also gets that in the ruck. He isn’t as natural as we want but he has all the skills to be a good player. Stick with it

Gawn for Tommy and Lever for Hore the obvious ones. Not sure he had much of a game at Casey but I’d love to put Baker back in on the fast Etihad track and leave Fritsch at half back if Petty doesn’t get up. JKH?? If we have to I guess, but are we really expecting him to get another go next year?

I'd name Gawn with no intention of playing him, where's the harm in that? Preuss emergency, make the swap 90 minutes before the bounce. Carlton would be 90% sure Max won't play but why make it 100% for them? Kreuzer may as well have to prepare for both opponents. Thinking about it as the week has gone on I'd rather see Angus Brayshaw play half back than bringing in Lewis or Wagner again. Petty out, Gus back, Dunkley in. JKH in playing half forward/wing, Hunt stays in the forward line more. Take your pick of Hannan or ANB out. Drop both and give Corey Wagner another go if you like, doesn't really matter.

We got smashed by Brisbane but before that we beat Freo and had a real chance to give Collingwood a decent fright the week before. Garlett goes back and kicks a goal instead of passing inside 40 and it's game on. Clearly the Pies form has dropped off the last month or so but they were on for a big game at the MCG with JaidBet playing. Different circumstances to some of their form at Docklands against Docklands home tenants. I think the midfield should bounce back from last weeks debacle and then the backline stands a chance to show some improvement. The forwards are already on a path to hopefully revert towards the mean (you can only score from 16% of inside 50's for so long). I'm not a big believer in reading too much in to return matches against a side you've played once. Things change so quickly in this league. Just play out the season week by week in to August.

That's fair, but we've deliberately recruited good kicks for our backline. May, Salem, Jetta and with the right coaching I still believe Hibberd (and maybe even Oscar if in the side) are all very nice kicks and Lever and Hore aren't terrible. Jones if playing half back is a good kick in uncontested situations too. No reason Fritsch and Baker can't be developed as good ball users on the wing, if we get their running levels up. We couldn't try to reinvent Hawthorn 2013. In fact I think moving the ball with so much uncontested kick and mark is too slow for good backlines these days and doesn't even work. Clarko made a big tweak last year to try to move the ball more directly for that reason. But Geelong, Collingwood and West Coast are doing very well with backline kicking games to control possession safely until they reach the centre of the ground. We might not have a Hurn or Lewis Jetta but I'd say we have at least the same kicking skills of Collingwood and Geelong if not better. We just don't have the same midfield work rates or intercept marking (at this stage). I think we should continue with a lot of our aggressive change the angles, play on and rumble through the midfield with Harmes/Oliver then quick in to the forward line game plan but it can be supplemented by a more patient build up around the backline, controlled moving of the ball that allows the forward line to react whilst still keeping the opposition backline under the pump.

Would love a coach to help with player development, teach Hawthorn style safe good tempo ball movement skills and add to the culture.....As long as we still have some additions to the foward half as well! Carlton couldn't score with Bolts in charge.

I'll put the Brisbane result down to the midfielders having a shocking off day, which happens, the contributing factors being: 1. The highs of recording a strong win against Freo (yeah I know). 2. An interstate trip up to nice weather in the middle of Melbourne winter 3. Brisbane's midfielders being quick and well drilled and just in the right spots - either rucking to Gawn or getting the easy taps once Gawn went down 4. A clear focus on ball movement and scoring taking their minds off the basics. I'd say the first 5 weeks was certainly about lack of fitness. And the whole season has now been overshadowed by injuries. Since the first 5 rounds we've beaten Hawthorn, Gold Coast and Freo, whilst losing in not entirely terrible shape to Richmond and Collingwood. We should've beat Adel and West Coast, whilst we've had shockers against GWS and Brisbane. It's 3-6 but with a bit of luck or avialable talent it could've been 4-4. If you factor in the lack of confidence, injuries and other things that just spiral when the losing starts I really think the preseason has cost us being closer to an even win/loss record. That's the kind of team we could've been with a fair run at it. That's still a long way off what we'd like to be but it's not the end of the world if that was the correction year after a run of improvements. 2 tackles is certainly a mental and physical awful effort and outside any justification from preseasons, but if it's not repeated again this week then it's something you can move on from.

We have a huge injury list but I'm not sure we have a huge list of injury prone players. I'd put Vanders, KK and even Joel Smith in that category, but a lot of teams have carried far more than that including the Pies with Reid, Elliott, Wells, Darcy Moore, Scharenberg etc. Elliott's a free agent and the level of talent that I'd fully support rolling the dice for at the right price. If he's available for 2 years at 300k/year you'd do it straight away, if it's 4 years at 600k pa you'd say no thanks. Depending on what happens between now and the end of the year I'd imagine his value is somewhere between those ranges.

That's not true. We traded up with the Saints for the Jordon pick, and given we had 2 picks in the 50's I was fine with swapping out a couple of picks in the 40's and trying to get up to the 30's to get a bit more quality. The Sparrow pick came to us in the Hogan deal. I get the feeling we were hoping Sturt, Duursma or even Bobby Hill fell to that pick or that we could move up a few spots - the Gold Coast and Giants both did in deals that cost them plenty - but we didn't move up to take him. The Suns had him next on their board and moved up because they wanted to get a particular player - Jez McClennan - otherwise they'd have taken him in the 20's. He's a strong athletic kid with some positives and negatives, probably wait until he's played some more footy at AFL or VFL level to judge that decision.

Involving pick 2 in any deal for Patton who's a big lump with a broken body when the Giants are probably keen to get his contract out the door isn't overrating or underrating him. It's just common sense to say let's not get a great draft pick involved in a deal for Patton. Didn't we learn from the Tyson trade? Patton's trade value should be in line with Scully's. Similarly I'm saying you aren't rating Hill enough! Pick 17 isn't the middle ground there. Especially if Freo lost Langdon they aren't about to say sure, you can have Hill for cheap. Weideman I agree his value is about pick 25, but finding a team willing to give that up (it won't be Sydney) and finding a replacement for him is the harder thing. Martin for Petracca I can see the equivalent value but I can't see how that helps us. We need more quality in the forward half. If we traded one for another we'd still need to draft more. Better to keep the guy we have and draft a Martin.

If we're looking for potential bargains to get some depth in the key forward group there's a couple of options who are out of contract. 1. Wylie Buzza (Geel) - 18 goals in 9 VFL games. Big forward/ruck type. 2. Zach Sproule (GWS) - 19 goals in 7 NEAFL games. 31 goals last year. Given both are well down the pecking order they might be available cheaply.

I saw him play a school game at the MCG and he looked like the best bits of Roughead and Franklin combined but I think the reality is he reads the play and competes better down back than as a forward. Plus we got him to finally sure up our backline, do we want to suddenly have that be the issue. I'm still a believer in the Collingwood, Richmond (pre this year), Geelong style model that you don't need 2 dominant big blokes. 1 quality tall is probably enough, as part of 2-3 guys who can win one on ones or create goals is a good start. Doesn't matter so much if they are big, medium or small and then get a group of 7 forwards who can work together in attack or defensively.

Overpaying for Patton who might not ever be up to regular AFL footy and at the bare minimum will always be a poor defensive player. Selling Weideman for a team that would have no interest in him - they have Reid, McCartin and Blakey and have to keep paying Buddy for a few more years. Under paying for Brad Hill who is contracted and Freo have no incentive to trade unless it's a whopping offer. Trading out Petracca for Jack Martin which in every possible way is a sideways or even backwards move. Chucking a couple of ball butchers at half back in Langdon and Hunt, where does Jones play in this creative team? At least put Langdon on the wing, move Salem up and add in Jetta or Frost to provide some defensive oomph. Not bringing in a specialist pressure small forward, relying on a first round draft pick to play half forward. One who is 178cm as well. The Langdon trade makes sense, as does the idea of bringing in a good first round draft pick who can provide some class in the forward half. The rest is pretty fanciful.

Stupid post. 1. There's no way he's still earning a fortune, and if he is that's on our list management. He wouldn't be offered a big contract for next year anyway so it's irrelevant. In fact if he has made a fortune he'll probably play on for less. 2. He epitomises everything about why we still have a football club. He stayed loyal when it would've been so easy to jump off. This year has been a down year for many but plenty are acting like we're still in the Neeld years. 3. Who's the next hopeful he's keeping out? Have a look at the Casey team and find a good player ready to play. There just isn't any. He's currently keeping out Josh Wagner - who's had a stack of chances - and Lewis. If we recruit well and get guys back to fitness then they'll get games ahead of him.

Looked to me like he played another solid game of footy on the weekend at half back, his second in a row in that role since they made a change post the bye. 23 disposals, 5 rebound 50's, only 2 clangers, 5 score involvements, 362 metres gained. As of right now he's our 2nd best distributor at half back alongside Salem and the next best on our list is???? Maybe Fritsch if we don't use him on a wing? Maybe Hibberd if we keep Hore and Jetta in the team. Or May and Lever provide more rebound so we don't need another ball user from half back. More than happy for Jones to go on next year to be set to compete for a half back spot, knowing that he can still be used in the midfield if desperately needed.

Preuss for Gawn - we got Preuss so we can afford to give Max a break when he’s not 100%. Time to do it. JKH for Hannan Lever for Petty Dunkley for ANB FB: Hibberd May Frost HB: Hore Lever Salem C; Fritsch Oliver Baker HF: Lockhart T Mc Petracca FF: Smith Weid Hunt Foll: Preuss Harmes Viney Int: Jones, JKH, Dunkley, Brayshaw Use JKH, Dunkley and Brayshaw all heavily through the midfield and forward line so we have a heap of rotations. We need fresh legs and to look at multiple guys in different positions. Same thing goes for the rucks without Gawn.

I agree and I argued that at the time. But the Shiel and Wingard deals dragged on and they eventually coughed up. Pick 10 was never going to be enough. Teams miss with top 10 selections all the time. To just hand over 10 for a very good player wasn't right. It was always going to be 10 and something. In the end it was 10 and a trade back from 19 to 35 a year earlier. That wasn't really a list altering move. Our biggest list failings right now are: 1. Failing to recruit good outside mids. I like Baker and Fritsch, but it's too much too soon for them right now. Vanders is injured. KK is injured/no good. Corey Wagner is ordinary. JKH injured and not much chop. 2. Failing to recruit good small/medium forwards: Spargo is having 2nd year blues, he's not great but might not be terrible, certainly wasn't last year. Hannan injured and recently back. JKH as above. Garlett gone. Dion Johnstone a failure. Bedford/Chandler very young. Corey Wagner see above. Hunt just ok. Joel Smith injured. ANB yuck. Lockhart promising but early days. I expect we'll make some moves to get improvement there. I don't expect huge drastic changes in the other positions.

Wingard and future 3rd for Burton (pick 19 - first rounder), pick 15, pick 35 and a future 4th. That's clearly more than the Lever deal which was picks 10 and 19 for Lever and 35. I didn't love the Lever trade and wanted less on the downgrade to pick 35 but winning plenty of games last year and making it pick 19 made it a good deal. Good recruiters - which is what you want the club to have - should be able to find similar hit rates at 19 or 35 and Lever for 10 is a steal. Lever is meant to be an elite intercept marking defender, a player just as valuable as a gun midfielder. If you think Sicily or Darcy Moore aren't as valuable as a gun midfielder then you haven't been watching many games recently. Yet alone the dream of what Lever could become if developed well - a McGovern level force that teams have to tag. Shiel and Treloar both have breakaway pace but absolutely butcher the ball. They are players a good midfield team can counter. Wingard would rather play playstation than AFL football. We are due for a rebuild: Of our fitness department and assistant coaches, not of trading out a bunch of players.

Trelaor, Shiel, Wingard. Thanks for playing.

Petracca has deficiencies but is otherwise playing steady solid footy across half forward. You’d only trade him if you didn’t think you could improve him. Weid is ok but not good. Tom is in awful form and might get worse or might get back to a 50 goal forward. Either way you couldn’t trade 1 yet alone 2 of them without a mature replacement. Gawn, Oliver, May, Viney, Harmes, Salem, Lever, Jetta, Melksham are all in their prime, you can’t just turf the side around the for kids. Petracca, Brayshaw, McDonald are good enough to contribute to a good side. Not to mention Hibberd, Frost, Fritsch, Lockhart and several others who I think could easily play in a genuine top 4 side. I’d rather take a leave out of Colligwood, Richmond and Geelong than doing a Port and trading out for kids and never having enough prime age talent

Cheers. I think one thing we have to do is keep draft picks where possible and brave the free agency waters. Free agency finds - including delisted pick ups - are the best way to improve the list. A trade improves the list but comes at a cost. It's time we find a at least one if not more who can make us better. The good news is we've got plenty of positions - half back, wing, half forward, crumbing forward - where our baseline level of talent is so low that it really can't be hard to find a better option. Operation find a better version of the Wagner's and ANB should be the aim.

Geelong traded out (pretty much delisted) Menzel. Bought in: Rohan - cheap trade Dahlhaus - free agent Fist round draft pick Jordan Clark VFL player upgrade - Tom Atkins Previour pick - Gryan Miers Ablett forward And had a whole new forward line. We can make maybe 1 subtraction, 3 or 4 additions to beef up the forward line, get some training time and quality together in the midfield get the backline healthy and things can change very quickly.

We aren't getting more than a packet of chips for Oscar McDonald or Hunt so forget them. At best late 3rd round picks that they'd fetch probably aren't more valuable than keeping them or delisting them or whatever the plan is. Trading Weids for what? To draft another young key forward who might take 4 years to become better than Weids. How does that help? Trading Tommy Mc I can get around but who are we getting in? If we've got a 50 goal a year key forward we can swap Tom for then fine go for it. Trading Trac, to get in what? Cam Rayner who's just Trac but younger? Trac's played perfectly decent footy the last month or so. Unless you think he'll never buckle down and go to the next level you're pretty much giving up a good player on the hope of a better player. Trade out the one guy who has the ability to be a great half forward flanker only to draft a lesser half forward flanker? Brayshaw is the one I agree with because his value is hopefully high and we can cover him.

Lol massive clean out. Where are these amazing depth players who would be helping us? Hogan went out for May in. Kent went ok at the Saints but is now injured. Tyson - couldn't get a game at North. Bugg - delisted himself from Carlton. Filipovic? Johnstone? King? McKenna? Pedersen? I agree we don't need to make massive list changes this year but the idea that our delistings last year had anything to do with our win loss this year was wrong. Our depth is poor because our depth players - Tim Smith, Keilty, JKH, Stretch, Wagner * 2, Maynard - have either copped a lot of injuries or just aren't very good. We'll keep some, move others on but it won't be a big factor.

Jetta will be that player. Might take him a while to be trained to stay down and trust his team mates but when you have Steven May next to you it's a lot easier to learn that. The whole backline is a mess right now because they are changing roles and uncertain of each other. If we can get at least 4 of Jetta, Lever, May, Frost and Hibberd settled for more than a few weeks things will improve.