Dr. Gonzo

Yeah the observation about Melbourne being historically an attacking team and Neeld trying to implement a defensive side to us was spot on and will be difficult to change the mindset overnight. Look at the couple of clips they showed (and Neeld said these were picked up by the assistant coaches and shown in the review with the players) our players run with the opposition but get sucked towards the ball allowing their player to run free. Same with guys like Davey hanging 20 metres off their opponent in the hope that a turnover may allow them to run forward of the ball - but often it just means their opponent gets an easy uncontested possession. You could see Neeld was clearly agitated at these clips and he has his job ahead of him to change the mindset of the players (one of the examples shown was of Bartram who is supposedly a shutdown player).

May have changed his opinion after making those comments in the heat of the moment with the anger from the result still palpable and realising there is limited options to bring in to replace the under performers. Seemed to me he regretted making that comment as seen by his deflection about not being able to make comments about selection prior to channel 7.

I don't really see the relevance to what I posted?

I don't have to think about it at all - it' blatantly obvious.

Going from memory here, but in those years we picked up Miller, Rivers, Molan, Smith, Thompson? Thompson is the only A-Grader there and he ditched us as soon as he had the chance.

Matthews seems to dislike us for some reason - but remember this is the man who gave us pick 14 for TJ. I think the game has passed him by.

I agree 100% on Sully/Trengove - doesn't matter what happened we were never going to pick Martin but it still wouldn't have hurt to do some more homework on him. Chances are if we did pick him it would be at the expense of Trengove anyhow, not Scully. However I wanted Talia - we picked Gysberts. I wanted Darling - we picked Cook. The others (2007 & 2008) I didn't pay close enough attention but surely there is something wrong if both Blease & Strauss end up busts considering who was picked in the 10 picks after them. rpfc I agree our drafting from 2001 has been horrendous, the recent drafting we had prime picks though so you would have expected with the amount of top 20 picks we had we could have built an entire team around but it is not looking the case. It is looking more like Richmond having 5 top 20 picks and drafting Oakliegh-Nicholls and the rest of the duds.

Firstly no one is blaming Cook - as was said earlier it is about balance - Cook on his own is not the problem but taking our recruiting as a whole it seems we have too many of the same type of players on our list - too many HFF who can't do much damage in the middle (Dunn, Bate, Petterd, Howe, Jurrah) too many skinny KPP (Watts, Cook, Fitzpatrick) too many skinny midfielders/HBF (Morton, Grimes, Gysberts, Blease, Strauss, Bennell). I agree though it is not merely the recruiting which is our problem, this is a legacy that we are still dealing with from the Daniher years where senior players were given games on reputation instead of having to earn it and weren't punished for being selfish front-runners (e.g. Yze, White, Johnstone, Robertson, Bruce) - this has gotten us where we are now where the senior group having been getting games on reputation and can't lead the younger players and show them how to play committed team-oriented football.

I don't think Moloney & Sylvia are members of Mensa in their spare time either.

Which is why so many of us were disappointed that we went for another tall skinny schoolboy champion in Cook over a crash and bash old fashioned footballer in Darling. Would having Darling in our side automatically remedy everything wrong with us? Of course not but I think the type of players we have drafted needs to be looked at also. You can have a couple of Watts or Blease in the side but not Strauss, Blease, Watts, Cook, Gysberts, Morton (I'd add Scully in here also) etc all skinny "athletic" body types rather than crash and bash footballers like Darling, Hurley or Martin. I think development is a very large part of our problem and one that we are trying to fix with our invetsment in the FD but you also need to recruit the right players who you can develop into a cohesive team. This is a long standing problem, many players would come in and have great first years/games and then completely stagnate. Look at for example guys like Bruce or Green. Started off in 2000 like a house on fire but plateued straight away and never really evolved their games to the next level. Same can be said for guys like Yze, Johnstone, Sylvia the list goes on and on. Along with the investment in the FD I think Neeld has the right type of player in mind to recruit - look at Tynan on Saturday, didn't set the world on fire but had a real crack and didn't shy away from any physical contact. I want players that relish that contact, not think twice when they see opposition colours when going for the ball. EDIT - this doesn't mean they have to be built like Tapscott or McLean and be slow as treacle either - just "solid through the hips" players who have a dip and are footballers before athletes.

The thing is Bailey was seen as a good teacher and development coach so what does that tell you? I don't know but it is truly laughable and for what its worth I agree 100%. It can't ALL come down to drafting especially when we have had so many good picks.

KP forward, KP back, crumbing forward, running half back who can lock down a Milne or Ballantyne, midfielders, midfielders, midfielders with accurate disposal under pressure who can go forward and kick goals. We also need Watts, Gysberts, Morton & Cook amongst others to put on 10-15kg.

He needs to play in the backline or be traded at the end of the year. He is an OK player but doesn't really fit into our team so I would put either he or Jamar on the trade table to see what you can get. You have to give something to get something and you also need to buy low and sell high. He is worth as much now as he ever will be (Jamar probably already on the down slope) so I would see if we can get a running half back or skilled midfielder for him.

Just goes to show how unfit we are more than anything. If they get possession of the ball they can control it more instead of chasing tail all day. Have a look at the top teams, Geelong, Coll, Haw even Carl and the frenetic pace they play at for 4 quarters. That is where we have to be. I said it last year on a few occasions, our players are either the laziest or most unfit team in the competition.

Fair enough, its Sunday night and my sarcasm metre is well and truly busted after the result yesterday and nursing a hangover today from the wedding I went to yesterday. It might be time for a bex and a good lie down.

If you notice I didn't actually begin the thread, I was only commenting on it. You bought up ND and old dee said he would have him back any day. All I was doing was pointing out that ND created a team of soft front runners which created the culture that led to what we have today. It was under ND that guys like Yze, White & Johnstone used to get games week after week on reputation alone while others like Jolly & Scott Thompson left us for greener pastures. Daniher had a skilled team who didn't like the hard stuff so we looked good against teams around or below our level and crumbled against anyone as soon as they applied some pressure to us which led to us dropping games to teams who had no right to beat us (Carlton 2004 & 2006x2 come to mind instantly). How many games did we win under ND that you can honestly say we had no right to win? Maybe one in his first year against WCE at Subiaco. Other than that we continually shot ourselves in the foot and cost ourselves ladder position because Daniher refused to hold the senior group accountable and refused to implement any sort of defensive game plan to compliment the attacking style we played well.

He seemed to be scribbling and writing quite a bit in the coaches box so I assume he did actually have specific amount of players in mind and probably told them so and pointed them out after the game. He also didn't say 4 very good players, he said a pass mark. I think Watts got a pass mark but the expectations are still higher than what he served up yesteday. For mine he was talking about Magner, Watts, Trengove and ????.

I've been trying to forget it for more than 10 years but the memory is still vivid despite trying to erase it with inhuman amounts of alcohol and other substances. There is only one cure and it is the succes of cup number 13.

And we got absolutely demolished.

I'm more interested in who the "ins" are. You can drop whoever you want but what does it matter if you just replace them with the same guys who have been under-performing for years and haven't earnt their spot? If they bring Bennell or Dunn back in what is that going to prove? They were obviously left out this week for a reason will that suddenly change after one game?

Exactly - I also feel that the criticism of Watts may be warranted. He WAS one of our better players, in the first half at least. The problem is he still didn't IMPOSE himself on the game. He didn't create many goals, he didn't kick many goals. He did get to where the ball was and rack up some possessions but did he really damage the opposition? I see Matthews and others criticism of Watts akin to Barassi's criticism of Keth Greig (amongst others) back in the day. He hounded him the most because he had the potential to be one of the best, but wasn't.

The problem is you can drop players but who do you bring in? Just more under performers who then get a game without having to earn a senior spot. Rinse and repeat in a fortnight or months time. The only players who really could come in to the side and make a difference are Petterd (deserves a spot), Sylvia (on his last chance and needs to earn it - not an automatic selection) & Jurrah (who knows if he'll ever play again). It just feels like shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic - the problem with our team is there is no competition for spots in the senior side. Players get games on reputation or just for the fact that there is nobody else - how can you expect there to be a competitive fire under them when they know all they have to do to get a game is turn up?

I said exactly the same thing to someone last night - the scary thing is it is not outside the realms of possibility. If GWS show the same intent and attack on the footy and contest as they did in round 1 and they have Scully & Power back in there is a very real possibility they will roll us. Add in Patton (who I don't think is playing this year due to injury) and they already look like they are ahead of us after they have played one game in their entire history.

To win a premiership you need 4-5 A-Grade players - we have potentially one or two in Trengove & Frawley but there is no guarantee they will get there. If I had to go through the list I would put a line through the following players; Bartram, Bate, Bennell, Davey, Dunn, Fitzpatrick, Green, Jetta, Macdonald, Martin, Moloney, Morton, Rivers & Spencer That is 14 out of 38 and that is being generous. I have serious question marks next to the following; Bail, Blease, Cook, Gawn, Gysberts, Jamar, Jones, Jurrah, Sellar, Strauss & Sylvia. That is another 11 which is 25 out of 38 players on our senior list who either aren't good enough, aren't consistent enough or go missing when the pressures on. Of the rest the majority are kids who are untested. So to answer your question this list cannot win a premiership. We have serious deficiencies in our list and our culture. We lack a crumbing forward, one-two quality ball users off half back who can shut down small forwards like Milne and Ballantyne, 2-3 top line midfielders who can go forward and kick goals, at least one key forward and possibly two.

Surely you jest?