Adam The God

What if we were able to land Caldwell with those two first rounders from GWS? Would that change your view?

I wonder what Roos thinks now. I reckon he'd be mightily [censored] off. Make no mistake. If things don't turn quickly next year, Goodwin will be gone.

We aren't a rabble but we're rightly not a destination club either. It seems we've targeted Langdon for a while, so I'm inclined to agree with Steve, just not his hyperbole on 'rabble'. Things could go south drastically next year if we struggle early on. Goodwin could be fired by the bye and our top players will be voicing their concerns, leading to murmurs of trade talk. Given how poorly we started this year and how we continued it, despite my inclinations to agree with much of your post, from an outsiders POV, Elliot will likely stay at Collingwood and Tomlinson+Langdon will come home to Melbourne (and the MFC) simply because we are a better prospect than North or St Kilda / can offer better money than Richmond or Collingwood, but that really isn't saying much.

I haven't said anywhere that the club knows best. But I have said that sometimes you have to overpay to get what you want. We need wingers. Tomlinson will be better than any current wingers we have and more durable. It's a no brainer.

I guess so. I wouldn't know. All I know is that we've allegedly had money in the cap to chase a 'big fish' the last two or so years, so that would make me agree with you on "we've been very good at how we manage the cap".

Without knowing the strategy behind all the decision making though, it's near pointless speculating. I know it's a forum and that's 99% of what a forum is about, but there are greater things to worry about than contracts that we have no real inside information on.

You're wrong. Have a lie down.

Also, it's ridiculous having a whinge about contracts, because unless you've seen the contract and are across multiple player contracts competition-wide, you wouldn't have a clue what you're talking about.

Gee, you'd be disappointed if you were a Lions fan. What a choke. Out in straight sets. We may not have made the top 4 last year, let alone the top 2, but we won two finals. Hope it means they're mentally scarred and tumble back down the ladder next year. One less competitor for us.

We won't properly challenge without outside run and a far greater ability to spread from the stoppages (something we've rarely demonstrated except for the very back end of 2018). Richmond, Collingwood and the Lions all have pace and spread from the stoppages. We won't be competing with them unless we sort out our list shortages. If we do, our ball-winning ability will go along way to surpassing the aforementioned teams.

As we well know, when you've been down the bottom for a while, you do have to overpay in order to lure good players. You'd think it'd be heavily front-ended.

Hypothetical: if it was Frost for Isaac Smith, would you do the deal? IMO, in a heartbeat.

To be fair to Lever, he can only boss in the intercept game if we play a solid zone system. He can't play intercept defender if he's playing 1v1. But I agree, Jake's disposal was a bit off this year. Probably endemic of our own failed system and poor ball use across the ground. I agree with this too. The forward system is broken at the MFC because it's outdated and directionless. You need speed in your forward half in the modern game and I believe you need the zone in the defensive half. My fear with the way that we've been building our list is that we're too slow to address certain glaring weaknesses. Getting ball winners on board is all well and good, but if the rest of your system breaks down, it's almost useless. We need far more pace and x factor inside forward 50. Elliot is a good idea. We desperately need another zippy small. I hope we're targeting a Richmond small with pace. It's taken us far too long to address the lack of pace and crumbing ability in our forwardline. We also haven't got our ideal defensive line yet either.... ... if, as you say, Jetta or Hibberd don't return to form next year, we're in for another ordinary year. I would love to know if we've changed our recruiting strategy and list management direction in the last two years. The holes in our list have been obvious for a while now.

You're probably right RE: the third tall. I had that slightly wrong in the Adelaide system. Lever plays third tall, but I think you underestimate just how good Lever is. He was an out and out star in the second half of Adelaide's 2017 push for the Grand Final. He absolutely bossed games. I'd say only Stewart and at times (although not as consistently) Howe could/can match what Lever did in 2017 as a very young man. I agree with you on Hore and I don't rate him terribly highly. He, like Frost, is a turn over merchant, but he understands his position more and is a good reader of the play as a defender. I wouldn't move Joel Smith back, because he too is a turnover merchant and has possibly worse skills than Frost. But I've never rated the Smith experiment, so I'm probably biased there.

I'm on record as loving Petty. He's a Lever clone. He's an excellent reader of the play, a strong mark, a solid kick and isn't afraid to put his body on the line. I think they may keep him forward next year, unless we solve our KPF problems this off season. But I can see them moving him back in 2021.

Good post. I reckon we've tried to make the best out of an ordinary situation with Frost. We traded him in at a time when we would have preferred not to pay as much for a player of his lack of quality, but given our list at the time, we had to overpay. Since he's been on the list, we've developed him as best as we could and tried him everywhere, until we realised it was back or bust. The problem with Frost for the last 3-4 years is that it's been clear that the MFC has wanted to play a zone defence, hence the acquisitions of Lever and May. They trialled Omac and Frost in the role May was supposed to play, to very mixed results. They even trialled Dunn in that zone at the back end of 2016. None were sufficient, hence we went after Lever and May. At the back end of 2018, Frost's pace enabled him to cover a player like Hawkins, but ultimately, we went after May because we'd prefer to play May, Lever and a third tall defender. That third tall role has fallen to an undersized and I suspect, slowing down, Michael Hibberd. This is why I'd be happy to keep Frost as depth for that third tall position until a better replacement comes along. Frost is also able to play small, which is handy. I just wouldn't pay the world to make him stay. Furthermore, anyone banging on about Lever not being a KPP, simply doesn't understand how modern footy works. Lever was a gun in Adelaide's incredibly strong zone defence in 2017, with Talia as the lock-down player (May in our current set up) and Hartigan as the third defender. The difference between that Adelaide set up and ours now is that Talia, Lever and Hartigan were all solid kickers. This may have been why we were going after Keath, to play as a more reliable third defender role in a zone system lead by May and Lever. Hibberd doesn't have the size of Keath and therefore could be isolated against a third tall. Keath is closer to the Hartigan type (although taller). It would also release Hibberd to play a kicking / rebounding defender role, which is what saw him earn AA honours in 2017. We all know Frost's pace can work well in the high press system, because he can provide cover for us out back. Where Frost falls down in the zone system though, is when our team isn't pressing high or the opposition team is controlling play. He gets lost in these situations with his lack of footy IQ. I think it's relatively clear we've wanted to play the following set up for a while now: Jetta (lock down on a small) -- May -- third tall defender (Frost at the moment) Hibberd -- Lever -- a kicker / set up player / quarterback (Salem at the moment - Laird at Adelaide) Given who we seem to be targeting, we'd prefer to get a more reliable defender in to that third tall role (hence Hore) and keep Salem and Hibberd as quarterbacks. Frost should be depth, but could be very handy depth if we are hit by injuries again. My concern is that one player shouldn't make us play in a different way. As Clarkson, Simpson, Buckley and even Lyon have shown in recent years, system should win out and direct the way a team plays, rather than a single player.

I'd take him...

How so?

He looks [censored] off. Interesting time to put this interview out. I didn't hear a great deal about him taking much responsibility for the season, but anyway, we'll see how we go.

Yep, he's kicked 15.27. Outrageously inaccurate, but to have that many shots on goal he's doing something right. As for Oliver fumbling @Redleg I think we watch different games. Oliver's kicking efficiency could get a whole lot better, as could his two-way-running, but IMV he rarely fumbles.

At the end of 2017, Cripps was ahead of Oliver. At the end of 2018, Oliver was ahead of Cripps. At the end of 2019, both had incredibly consistent seasons. I'm not saying Oliver can't get better, he definitely can, but in my book, he's every bit as good as many on the list I quoted.

I'd keep him, because you can't delist everyone and there are amazingly many others I'd let go of before him. He needs a very defined and simple role that utilises his skill set. I'd stick him on a wing and play run-with-roles, and link up play. But the message would be 'keep it simple and really use your running asset to your advantage'.

Cripps doesn't hit the scoreboard that much better. He kick 13.6. Oliver kicked 4. Those two are neck and neck for mine and every bit A graders. Bontempelli is a different player, doesn't get it as much although his touches are just as influential. For the record, Bontempelli kicked 15 and averaged 26 disposals. Neale kicked 12. Sidebottom 10. I think Oliver is absolutely as good a player as Neale and Cripps. He may not have the hurt factor of Bontempelli or Sidebottom, but I'd argue Sidebottom has better players around him.

I wouldn't mind noting in this thread who might make a good senior coach. We'll need a back up option in 2020 pretty quickly, I fear.

I go every week mate, but I also work a very busy job, so I don't think I'll be doing that. But perhaps you could, if you want to dispute it.