Adam The God

They should try and fixture Melbourne v Geelong for every Friday night game, is what they should do. If you look at the night games we've played this year against Port and Geelong in the prime time, we are bankable for a good, hard, close game. We won't win any of them of course, but it'll be close.

Yep. We did. Fritsch. Who was terrible all night and cost us 2+ goals and almost another on the stroke of half time. Problem was, the spare played the goalkeeper role. Probably the right move given its importance in the modern game, but it was never going to trouble Hawkins. I think Frost simply should have been moved to Hawkins earlier, but from memory, he didn't kick another goal once Frost went to him. 4 goal lead, but I agree. The bloke doesn't understand football, I'm afraid.

It does and we do remind me of Richmond last season and historically. For years they were a mentally soft club and even last year lost a string of games they should have buried. Eventually though, their leaders said enough is enough. I don't think it was leadership that lost it for us tonight though. Not true. I don't often stick up for Jones, but I was at the game and he was doing a lot of marshalling throughout the last quarter.

What I hate is our leaders scoffing when asked about not being able to beat a top 8 side. Well, you still haven't yet, boys and your pathetic choking continues to [censored] on our supporter base. Just say we haven't and cop those questions until you start to beat some top 8 teams. Get rid of the arrogance and realise you haven't achieved anything yet and deliver on game day.

So I type this as I make my way up the highway back to Melbourne. Yet another game where our efficiency going inside 50 and inside in general was insipid. Bottom 4 worthy. The game style does not hold up defensively. We have not fixed basic structural fundamentals in our game. Every time the ball went inside 50, we conceded against these [censored]. Is it a lack of two way running from our mids, or is it poor coaching that encourages and cajoles our players into high offensive positions, leaving us completely vulnerable on the rebound? It was so very Melbourne that an absolute gronk like Hawkins (who usually can't hit the side of a barn), was made to look like a superstar. For mine, it's the game style that's at fault. I'm not saying Goodwin is under pressure, but his stubbornness to change his defensive system is costing us games and will now see us miss finals for the same reason two years in a row. We certainly don't deserve to play finals on the back of the first 18 rounds of 2018 anyway. We haven't beaten a top 8 side and have lost to a bottom 2 side too. I don't want to talk about leadership tonight. I don't think that's necessarily why we lost this game. There are two major reasons why we lost. 1) our inefficinecy inside 50 and poor kicking at goal. 2) our game style that leads to us leaking goals. I'd love to know what Geelong's conversion per inside 50 was. It felt like (with the exception of a small period in the third quarter), every time they went inside, they scored. Their straight kicking invariably meant it was a goal against. I said last week that we'd miss finals if we lost tonight and what a gut wrenching way of meaning we'll miss. We lack such quality and consistency across half forward too. With the exception of Melksham, who IMO is arguably our most important player for the way he connects the midfield with the forwardline, we also lack speed and polish. JKH and ANB (the latter was pretty good tonight) just don't have the speed or polish for a top 8 team. And despite winning some crucial one v ones, I'm still waiting for Petracca to impact a game like Brayshaw or Degoey have. He just doesn't exhibit that matchbreaker quality that I hoped. He still has time, but it's frustrating that he is still yet to impact a game in the way those two aforementioned players have. Another thing, why was Gawn off the ground for such a crucial period in the last quarter? It beggars belief. How many goals did they kick when he was off? A rest is fine but he seemed to be off more than he was on in the last. I'll have to watch the replay if I can bare it, but despite getting a PB, I felt Clarry played a bit of a Tom Mitchell game. Lots of contested footy and touches, but didn't get it on the outside enough to use his kicking to set up play more. His first quarter was sublime though. Maybe I need to watch it again? Anyway, does anyone else feel they've seen enough of the game style now and feel it ultimately doesn't work? Or do people think it's merely a matter of tidying up the way we enter forward 50? Surely, we would have done this now if it were that simple...

Richmond lost 3% a couple of weeks ago when they lost to Port by 14 points and the scores were relatively low (72 to 58).

Can be big too. A few teams have lost 3% in losing by 2 and a bit goals. If you do that 2 or 3 times and you're back with the rest of the pack.

Yep, if we only win 2 more, our percentage will no longer be healthy. Even if we have close games. That's not how percentage works.

What's brilliant is that it no longer matters if our new draftees are tearing it up straight away and getting accolades like this. As long as they are playing their role, I'm sure all the accolades that matter are heralded within the club. There is also far less pressure on guys like Charlie to come in from Round 1 and perform. They're given a few weeks in the VFL and 'earn' it first and from there, as long as they are doing the team things, that will keep them in the team. This is a far more sustainable and better way of approaching development, than throwing kids in from Round 1 and heaping pressure on them to succeed in the high intensity of an AFL midfield role.

If only we could keep Viney out there, a midfield of Gawn, Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw is A grade if they can improve on their two-way defensive running.

Is that gronk Boomer Harvey in the media is he?

I've got to say even Viney (who'd probably be termed as B+ at the moment), has shown up Jones' leadership, as Jack really has the will to drag his team over the line and almost did it the last quarter against Port.

AVB definitely backwards in his second year IMO. And then got injured.

Once again, I think some are confusing the points here. The consistent line is Jones was the only one who tried hard every week, but he was surrounded by players who weren't good enough. When Roos got to the club he did an interview on the MFC website that discussed how Jones would play easy footy, the handballs out the back, the long kicks to no one. Nathan himself has admitted that he improved and became a better player under Roos, winning the BnF in 2014. Our list was ordinary again that year. Since then, others have gone past him. Some posters who I respect are also suggesting Jones is being judged merely for poor form this year. When I talk about his leadership qualities onfield, I am referring to his entire body of work. It's Jones' leadership credentials that I would debate the most. Neitz was a guy who could turn a game. He was no Franklin or Judd or Ablett, but he was capable of turning games. Jones has rarely, if ever, turned games. That's just fact. If there's evidence to the contrary, people would be able to point to this. He did lay one of his two big tackles in that quarter that led to Spargo's goal actually, but yes, he certainly didn't create the momentum in that quarter. Nor does he. Yep. I'd take SWYL's post to mean that the fact Jones has been held up as a champion A grader by some supporters (the same way some lauded Brock McLean and Jack Grimes), shows how bad we've been, given Nathan's actual abilities have never been A grade.

He deliberately pulled his kick because he looked up and saw Bulldogs all down the line. We were right behind it and saw what he saw. It was a deliberate skill error.

I don't rate Vanders either. His disposal is extremely hit and miss, and he's probably the worst handballer I've ever seen at AFL level. But I suspect Vanders will get a game soon enough for his pressure acts and his ability to bob up with a goal or two.

Completely agree RE: players developing at different rates, but Bugg has a fundamental flaw with his kicking and IMO poor decision making is very rarely corrected. If he's still making these mistakes at 25, I'm sorry, but it's not going to click for him. I can see the horizon for Harmes and ANB might get there one day, although I'm skeptical. The major thing these two guys have that Bugg doesn't, is time. They're both 22.

I reckon GWS could win it from outside of the top 4 too. I was thinking that over the weekend. Will be tough without Cameron and Patton though. They might have got it done the other night, but how much longer?

Yep, I'd certainly be picking through Richmond's list for a zippy small forward. We really only have Jeffy that has genuine leg speed. If we could get a Richmond want-away for a 3rd rounder, I'd do it.

He's got a good tank too, does Harmes. He could make it as a tagger and winger. I've written him off before, but if he keeps working on his skills and limiting mistakes, he has enough flexibility to play 100+ games for the club.

The problem with Bugg (despite being limited by foot and decision making) is that we already carry Harmes and ANB. The latter two are inconsistent and when they're off, they're really off. Particularly, ANB. If you add Bugg in there too, the margin for error is too high. The more we improve list, the more these players will become fringe players, which is a good thing. It means every game they play is a blessing for them, which ensures they can rarely afford to drop off. He might get one more game, but I reckon he's done at season's end. With Taylor's record, I'd be giving him as many picks as possible to unearth another gem that could replace Bugg.

It's hard having an opinion on here sometimes and probably because there are a lot of ordinary posts about. However, just because you think Jones isn't good enough anymore and state that he has always lacked vital leadership qualities, doesn't mean you're being mean-spirited. I've been on record for many years as saying Jones stood out because he played in one of the worst teams in VFL/AFL history. A good player, but not a great player. Not an A grader. And not an onfield leader. He's been a captain by necessity, because of a vacuum; it must be said not created by him, but by the horrible recruiting of CC and BP and poor development standards set by CS - yes, we've had those discussions over and over again through the years. But it seems there are some discussions we can't have around here without getting defensive. Or rather, some players or people being sacred. Nathan has always stuck by the club when he could have gone and this has often afforded him the defence of some posters on Demonland (and my respect), despite his lack of genuine A grade quality or A grade leadership ability. IMO, there have been multiple games over the years where his lack of leadership has cost us games, yet some posters refuse to admit this and instead revert to defence mode immediately. His lack of onfield leadership when the chips are down has been evident by mere body language, decision making and connectivity with his team mates for years. He seems like a really nice bloke and he has eked out every drop of himself, but if the end is coming, why can't we call it out? He's managed 250+ games and that is an incredible effort, but he's almost done. It's fine to accept that.

All I can say is 'thank you, Jason Taylor'. The new Wiz.

The thing about Dahlhaus is that he's been there before. If we can land him through FA and not take up too much of the cap, it'd be a coup if we can couple him with Gaff as well. All of a sudden in 2019 we have outside talent in Gaff, Dahlhaus, Fritsch, Hunt and even Stretch (who showed promising signs the other week). For mine, outside of FAs in Gaff and Dahlhaus, I'd be really keen to get a mature aged ruckman (a plug and play) on the list to support Max.

I'm confident that the club will have factored in Gus' rise. He's a top 3 pick. It's not like he's really come from the clouds. This was expected when we drafted him. He's finally starting to fulfil the potential he has and we've now invested time in him too. He'll sign and for a fair deal. This is a guy who we stuck by despite his career being on the edge of a precipice last year and even early this year. He'll sign a 2-3 year deal (it may be 3 to give himself a bit of security in case the head stuff flairs up again). As for Fritsch, he's another one who we gave a chance to through the Casey system and then backed him in through our AFL system. I can't see him playing us too hard either. As we've heard multiple times from the club since Roosy arrived, we have a no [censored] policy and good characters are sought. As long as Bayley is being paid fairly, he will not hold the club over a barrel. Which, leaves plenty of money for Gaff. The more talent we have in this side, the harder it is to fail. Gawn, Oliver and Brayshaw are starting to show some leadership, which coupled with Viney and Lever, means we have a terrific young leadership group to guide this talented side. And when Vince, Lewis and Jones go over the next 1-3 years, I'm starting to believe these guys will more than fill the void, they'll demonstrate the leadership we've been calling out for.