praha

Lol! Top 4 is what I meant!

On top of that, that you can't win a flag from outside the top 8. Digging through threads on bigfooty, I got hounded when I said you can't understate the pressure and skill of finals football, that ANYONE can win it if they believe they can.

I want to be happy for the Dogs. But I'm just depressed as [censored].

Umm..Boyd Norm Smith?

I'm still pretty confident he'll be traded this year if he doesn't agree to an extension. Remember, it was his manager that said a trade won't happen this year. That could mean anything, and it's probably not what is *really* the situation (hint: managers are [censored] artists). I do believe he is "torn". I think that bodes well for Melbourne, better than simply "contemplating going home". His manager is just trying to stem hysteria. He has two weeks to make a decision. After putting off an extension for 12 months to "see where the club is at". Decision time, Jesse.

Your not rong. I think their just not thinking propperly.

The problem is that most player agents are cowboys, and many of them are formerly of player union circles, and as such they go to great lengths to keep the clubs as far out of the loop as possible. Malthouse, Matthews, Eade, Mark Williams, and Lyon have all said as much, hinted that managers act like they're in it for their client but really they're in it for themselves. The best "business" decision isn't always signing the bigger contract. Sometimes that's actually the worst business decision. But it's an immediate payback to the manager who benefits significantly for the duration of the playing contract. Hogan won't do the "right thing" and he won't do what's right for the club. This is not between "Hogan and Melbourne", it's between Hogan's management and Melbourne. As such, we should not allow ourselves to be in another Frawley-Scully situation. Sign an extension, or you'll be traded.

"Republicans buy sneakers, too." Michael Jordan said this when approached by a friend to donate to a Democratic candidate. So she should. Modern progressivism is really just a melting pot of feel good-ness. Nothing much gets done, dare I say things tend to get worse, and stuff just generally evolves and improves naturally as conditions and just the path of life as it changes. Then the do-gooders pat themselves on the back and send out a few tweets congratulating themselves because they think that what they did contributed to the change. The hypocrisy is glowingly obvious almost all the time, and what we've seen is a separation between "to be progressive" and "to be A progressive", and that most self-proclaimed "progressives" are just narcissists looking to either make themselves feel better, or make other people feel worse. If Sydney really gave a [censored] and believed it what it's doing beyond it being merely a PR exercise, it wouldn't have entered into this agreement. The almighty dollar, ladies and gentlemen! No one really gives a [censored] about your feelings or "identity". They just say they do for the temporary boost of self-worth. "I'M MAKING A CHANGING". No you're not: I'm pretty sure gays are still being hanged from buildings and stoned in the Middle East. But, hey, wear your rainbow badge and sip some champagne on the balcony of your South Yarra apartment: you've had it tough, man, all oppressed and [censored]. I hear someone might call you nasty names! Poor baby! Collective outrage and progress is tiring. Be yourself. And if anyone doesn't like, punch them in the [censored] throat.

Have we traded him yet?

You're missing the point. He doesn't *have* to do anything. I am not suggesting we *force* him to sign. Extensions protect the club by allowing them to manage the cap and list for a longer period of time: by tying him up they can rest assured he will be part of the future over the next 4-5. With one year left, it actually puts off that management by 12 months until he signs an extension. This is the reason why sporting clubs the world over offer players extensions: so they can get a head start on list management. If he doesn't sign an extension, the club is forced into planning two potentially different scenarios: life with him, and life without him. That's not easy. Who will they get for him? What is the draft like? What will their cap be like? Can they risk dumping players now, or should they keep deadweight? After all we have been through for the past 10 years and 50 years more broadly, I desperately want the club to be on the front foot here. I just can't understand why if he is keen to stay he wouldn't sign an extension at some point this offseason. Letting it drag on and waiting for him to make a decision next year puts the club's list management direction almost entirely into the hands of Hogan. If he can't make up his mind, he needs to be traded. He doesn't *have* to sign an extension. That's precisely the point. And that's why we need to consider trading him. Like I said: if he is keen to stay, there is no reason to reject an extension. Rarely does a player of his caliber say no to an extension and then end up staying at that club. It almost always means they want to leave.

It's not like he's beating around the bush. He's being openly direct and firm. "It's now the end of the year." In other words, "You said one thing, are you a man of your word?" I think it was a firm yet subtle point directed at Hogan and his management.

People on this forum continually berate this suggestion. We have a very deep, talented draft this year, and two teams willing to deal very valuable picks and players. It is the end of the year. He either signs an extension or we trade him. There is absolutely no reason for him not to sign an extension or agree to eventually sign an extension if his intentions are to stay.

I am fairly certain clubs are able to trade contracted players. The purpose of the trade, in this case being his inability to sign an extension, is irrelevant.

I didn't mean to sound like it should be done *NOW* but I would think that within the 3-4 week period between now, and the start and end of the trade period he will know what he wants to do. A strong indication shouldn't be good enough. If he doesn't ask for a trade then he commits and the process to extend his contract is started.

Are you deliberately naive? Comparing the contracts of 5 midfielders to that of a once-in-generation power forward with insane value on the market is just silly. The likes of Tyson, Stretch, VB, Salem and Weideman probably stand to lose more by not signing an extension: it's doubtful any of them would get more than what Melbourne can afford. Anywhere Hogan potentially ends up would see him net more $$$ than what he'd get at the Dees. This is a FACT. Both WC and Freo would pay overs in salary to get him. There is also the case of two teams with decent amount to offer both being willing to trade for a kid that is clearly homesick. The deal is open now and all three clubs are in a dialogue, maybe not directly but you can bet your arse that Melbourne are doing their due diligence into both WC's and Freo's lists to see who they would need. I can't imagine them doing that for any of the blokes you mentioned above. He is an extremely valuable asset who has been treated extremely well by Melbourne, and as such he should commit and sign an extension if he is keen to stay. Nothing directly from his mouth has been about his long-term commitment. His demeanour and language along with his manager's language points to being not sure but leaning towards leaving. If that's the case let's stop twiddling our thumbs and get a deal done.

Granted, but the club also has a right to protect its investment/s and do what's within its own best interests: if Hogan wants to get to WC but can't this year, then he signs an extension otherwise he'll be wearing a Dockers guernsey in 2017. That is not unreasonable. People keep repeating over and over that he's contracted for 2017, but all the fact does is highlight the severity if finalising his future. Contract extensions are nothing new but with free agency these days they play an important part in list management. What you will see now is teams trading contracted players with one year left to teams that will either do a sign-and-trade deal for the long term, or take on that salary for a year to fulfil their obligations and then free up space in a year with a strong free agency class. It's how it's done in the NBA and it's how it will be done here. Anyone that wants the club to risk an unsure Hogan and keep him playing for Melbourne in 2017 without agreeing to an extension are shockingly misguided. In 2006 that might have been a reasonable train of thought, but it infuriates me when people say, 'HE'S CONTRACTED AND HE WILL PLAY IN 2017'. It's not that simple in 2016. We stand to lose so much if he leaves after 2017. It is completely unreasonable to argue that he is not "ready" to make a decision. I completely understand there are deeply personal issues here but I'm sorry, we all bang on about no player being bigger than the club and for us to just stop and be casual about it...we stand to lose a lot here. He either signs an extension or the club trades him. He either makes a decision or the club trades him. I'm pretty confident this will be sorted by Christmas.

IMO it's very unlikely that he'll play on without having the situation sorted before the season. I seriously believe there is 0% chance we won't have a definitive answer by the trade period. I just can't imagine any scenario where the club would actually allow a full season without him extending his contract. It simply won't happen. He is either at Melbourne next year having signed an extension, or he is in WA. I am willing to bet that come October 10, the club will know his intentions. He will either ask for a trade back to WA, or start with the contracting process. There's no other option for the club imo.

If the club takes that I'd be filthy. I'd want Weller and Freo's first round pick, or Fyfe and their second pick. Hogan is hot commodity and in demand. They are BOTH desperate, especially Freo. We are in a very good position to get more than just Hibberd and some picks.

If it's extended out and he doesn't re-sign, we're at a massive disadvantage next year. If WC and Freo are prepared to deal now and with teams like GC and Essendon looking to deal, it is the best time to get this sorted. We lose out massive if we don't sort this before the 2017 season, because if he stays and then doesn't sign, we stand to get much less than we could this year.

It's a business. If his dad is the reason he is undecided, then it is probably better than we force him into a trade. It is a ruthless industry and ultimately the club has been [censored] over too many times and must get this sorted. It may involve us making a decision for him. IMO if he can't commit within the next few weeks, we need to move on. Because if we linger around and he puts of chatter, we have another year of this and ultimately we have less power at the trade and compensation table because he is out of contract. We come out of it good anyway, but imo this needs to be sorted before Christmas. Both Freo and WC are ready to deal *now*. We may be limited next year.

Needs to make a decision. If he is keen to go then sort a trade now.

I think that so long as he is torn, he is more likely to stay. Scully, Frawley, guys like Franklin, Dangerfield, they knew they were going. Hogan is obviously in a bind and if the move is exclusively about going home to be with a sick father over a long-term proposition to stay with mates at the Dees, you'd think his family would have the long-term prospects for their son and sibling in mind. It's pretty clear this is a deeply personal decision and not just a matter of wanting more money or having a mansion on the beach in the home city. If the driving factors here are as they've been told, you'd imagine the family would encourage him to stay where he's happy. Me personally? I think it would be a shocking business decision to go to Perth. I'm biased, obviously, but he seems like a "big smoke" kind of guy who could very well become the next Wayne Carey (in terms of exposure and business prospects). Not to say he can't have that in Perth, but Hogan's image belongs in Hollywood, not the most isolated city on Earth.

The game has changed a lot and players and coaches get caught up in hip new theories and standards and whatnot. But one thing lasts the ages and will never become obsolete: it doesn't matter how good you are, if you don't strive to be the best you'll only ever be last. So many good players only ever go through the motions. Michae Jordan said that the guys he'd ride most in practice were the superstars because they were so complacent, that he would push them harder because it was so hard to get them to go that extra mile. He hated playing against the reserves because they were always fighting and scrapping. Read up on his brawl with Steve Kerr. Kerr was this white little stick who kept taking it to him in practice. It took taking it up to the best and not lying down to be respected by the best. 6 months later Jordan passed up a winning shot and gave it to Kerr for the gamer winner and championship. NBA fans will know this story well.

This is Michael Jordan-esque.

I think PJ's comments have been blown out of proportion, but I still think it opens the door to ridicule and makes us an easy target. It was a smooth transition and we've improved our credibility from a business and cultural standpoint, but we're a long way off being respected by the league. I don't disagree with Eddie. Someone's dished it and he's hit back.