Nasher

Isn't it telling that with all the choices we've got, we've got to put an asterisk on them? Ox pre-knee, TJ with a desire boost and so on. From the 90s and 00s there's barely a player anyone would take unconditionally. It's just so symbolic of the NQR nature of all the players that have passed through this club in the last two decades.

I'm not sure how you got from Macca's point to getting rid of the coaches. It's just about recognising that in this instance the coaches have a different driver to the AFL. In my work the rules and processes we have to work by change all the time and usually for the greater good of the company, but if it makes my job more difficult as a result, of course I have a grumble about it. Fortunately my boss has a lot more tact than Demetriou, but the gist of his message is the same: too bad, so sad, get on with it.

On the "mathematically possible idea", I can think of scenarios where is is mathematically possible, but implausible to make the finals, eg need to win last 3 games by a total of 1000 points and have the 8th team lose every game and so on. Could that not foster late-mid season tanking from teams who know that practically speaking they can't make it, ie they deliberately lose to allow participation in the ordering system that they would otherwise not get so long as finals remained "possible"?

The attitude than "unknown" would be better than Jordie is laughable. He'll be replaced with superior skilled players in time, but as others have already said it won't be this year. When he goes it will be because he's squeezed out, not because the coaches (who love him) decide on a whim that his kicking isn't good enough.

Good thoughts Choke; the first two thoughts that sprang to my mind were that it advantages teams who bow out early, and doesn't necessarily reward team that needs it the most; interestingly these two thoughts seem to be contradictory. I think I need to see it applied retrospectively to previous seasons to get a clear picture of how it would affect the draft.

What does being a power player off the field entail? I haven't read the article but it sounds like newspaper filler to me.

It's very tough marking to give Daniher none of the credit for the highs and all of the blame for the lows.

Last year was an all time low? 2008 will take some topping for me. As for this year, I'm excited. We've cleared away dead wood and recruited players that should help us get back to the pack more quickly. I'm expecting a new look side that hopefully has some cohesion about it. I accept that we've been disappointed before and acknowledge that I'm setting myself up for a fall potentially, but honestly if *all* I could see on the horizon was doom and dismay I'd just give up following.

While I'm pleased he's doing well, it's hardly the pointy end of year, and I can't see him spending much time forward when we're playing our A side.

Ben, we've had this conversation before. http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/30334-jack-watts/page-44#entry571971 The reason I think the Grinter comparison doesn't make sense, because even if we take it as a given that Grinter wasn't the hardest at the ball, he was still clearly a bull at the man. I'd still call that hard - you may not, but I reckon you'd be alone in your definition. Dunn has shown on numerous occasions that he's afraid of any physical contact at all. I realise you're not equating Dunn to Grinter, but I think introducing a player like Grinter in a thread weakens your point. You even said in the thread I've linked above that "we all know Dunn is worse than Watts", so I'm amazed that you're so dumbfounded. The other main reason I do not go out of my way to slam Watts is because there's enough of it already. Just about everyone is on that bandwagon, it does not need me adding to it. This doesn't mean I don't recognise that he plays a flawed game at times, it just means I choose not to throw petrol on the fire. The issue with Dunn is completely different; I see so many of the posts like the ones in this thread that applaud Dunn for his "toughness". I've seen Dunn clearly avoid physical contact so many times now, that this kind of comment irritates me and I feel compelled to do everything I can to dispell the myth. I've never seen anyone tell me how tough Jack Watts is, so clearly I do not need to post the same comments. And lastly, I didn't say that this was the first time I'd been called to account; I said it's the first time that someone commented on something I explicitly didn't say. I'm all for being held to account, but only on words I've actually said, not on those I haven't said.

It's definitely a first for me. I wonder if Ben's been feeling okay lately - first the bizarre Grinter link to the thread that seemed tenuous at best, then criticizing me for not criticizing Watts in a thread about Dunn. It all seems very odd.

I think your joke-o-meter needs adjusting H_T

I thought this was a thread about Dunn - sorry. Disingenuity aside, I'm not really sure what your point is anyway. I've rarely commented on Watts' efforts, positively or negatively. I stay out of those conversations altogether mostly.

That's how I felt by late last year, then a soft effort in the last match and the ones in this year's NAB snapped me back to my previous position. Perhaps I'm guilty letting my (extreme) annoyance at individual incidents cloud my judgement and not looking at the entire picture; something to muse on as the season goes by I guess. By the way, I can't think of another poster in Demonland history who has caused me to have to Google the meaning of a word more than you have.

Fair enough. Perhaps "no value" is a bit rough, but in my mind it's more than cancelled out by going to water when the ball is in play. In my mind what happens when the ball is moving trumps everything else, and I think there's something a bit smelly about getting in someone's face when firstly, you know with all the TV cameras watching they're not going to do anything to really hurt you, and secondly when you aren't tough when it matters in footy terms. Absolutely agree on Viney.

If Fawad Ahmed fails, we could always give Imran Tahir a run.

I don't know about you but I don't use Morton and Gysberts as the yard stick. There's a reason why they were traded in for scrap value. Refusal to be intimidated - great - until it's time to go get the ball. I couldn't give a stuff about jumper punching and butting heads with blokes on the field, that's not toughness and it has no value. I can't believe you'd ignore the "odd shirked contest" and cheer about pretending to be tough. You laud behaviour I find embarrassing.

I love Tappy, but my gut feel is that he won't make it. I expect his small tank and lack of natural instinct will be too limiting. Can't see which position has his name on it either. Happy to see him hurt a few blokes in the meantime.

Dunn is one of the chief contributors to the stigma. He acts tough in lieu of actual toughness, and wets himself when we really need someone to stand up. He's been an exponent of some of the weakest contest efforts I've seen. He has you fooled, and that is why I am sad

I've changed the thread title to accurately reflect what is being discussed. If anyone actually attended training and has something to report, start a new thread.

Yes, quite sure. Does your birthday happen to be in November, December or January by any chance? If so, that's why you finished school at 17. If you'd attended school in WA, you would have finished school the year before when you were 16. Edit: Anyone in WA, please feel free to make me look really silly and correct me :-)

RHS means "right hand side" in my line of work. I thought this might be a thread about constraint equations.

Yes it does, it explains it clearly. Just because you can't join the dots doesn't mean that it isn't an explanation. Honestly, your inability to take Logic Point A and Logic Point B, and mix them together to get a reasoned argument still amazes me after 8 years.