Nasher

While I'm pleased he's doing well, it's hardly the pointy end of year, and I can't see him spending much time forward when we're playing our A side.

Ben, we've had this conversation before. http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/30334-jack-watts/page-44#entry571971 The reason I think the Grinter comparison doesn't make sense, because even if we take it as a given that Grinter wasn't the hardest at the ball, he was still clearly a bull at the man. I'd still call that hard - you may not, but I reckon you'd be alone in your definition. Dunn has shown on numerous occasions that he's afraid of any physical contact at all. I realise you're not equating Dunn to Grinter, but I think introducing a player like Grinter in a thread weakens your point. You even said in the thread I've linked above that "we all know Dunn is worse than Watts", so I'm amazed that you're so dumbfounded. The other main reason I do not go out of my way to slam Watts is because there's enough of it already. Just about everyone is on that bandwagon, it does not need me adding to it. This doesn't mean I don't recognise that he plays a flawed game at times, it just means I choose not to throw petrol on the fire. The issue with Dunn is completely different; I see so many of the posts like the ones in this thread that applaud Dunn for his "toughness". I've seen Dunn clearly avoid physical contact so many times now, that this kind of comment irritates me and I feel compelled to do everything I can to dispell the myth. I've never seen anyone tell me how tough Jack Watts is, so clearly I do not need to post the same comments. And lastly, I didn't say that this was the first time I'd been called to account; I said it's the first time that someone commented on something I explicitly didn't say. I'm all for being held to account, but only on words I've actually said, not on those I haven't said.

It's definitely a first for me. I wonder if Ben's been feeling okay lately - first the bizarre Grinter link to the thread that seemed tenuous at best, then criticizing me for not criticizing Watts in a thread about Dunn. It all seems very odd.

I think your joke-o-meter needs adjusting H_T

I thought this was a thread about Dunn - sorry. Disingenuity aside, I'm not really sure what your point is anyway. I've rarely commented on Watts' efforts, positively or negatively. I stay out of those conversations altogether mostly.

That's how I felt by late last year, then a soft effort in the last match and the ones in this year's NAB snapped me back to my previous position. Perhaps I'm guilty letting my (extreme) annoyance at individual incidents cloud my judgement and not looking at the entire picture; something to muse on as the season goes by I guess. By the way, I can't think of another poster in Demonland history who has caused me to have to Google the meaning of a word more than you have.

Fair enough. Perhaps "no value" is a bit rough, but in my mind it's more than cancelled out by going to water when the ball is in play. In my mind what happens when the ball is moving trumps everything else, and I think there's something a bit smelly about getting in someone's face when firstly, you know with all the TV cameras watching they're not going to do anything to really hurt you, and secondly when you aren't tough when it matters in footy terms. Absolutely agree on Viney.

If Fawad Ahmed fails, we could always give Imran Tahir a run.

I don't know about you but I don't use Morton and Gysberts as the yard stick. There's a reason why they were traded in for scrap value. Refusal to be intimidated - great - until it's time to go get the ball. I couldn't give a stuff about jumper punching and butting heads with blokes on the field, that's not toughness and it has no value. I can't believe you'd ignore the "odd shirked contest" and cheer about pretending to be tough. You laud behaviour I find embarrassing.

I love Tappy, but my gut feel is that he won't make it. I expect his small tank and lack of natural instinct will be too limiting. Can't see which position has his name on it either. Happy to see him hurt a few blokes in the meantime.

Dunn is one of the chief contributors to the stigma. He acts tough in lieu of actual toughness, and wets himself when we really need someone to stand up. He's been an exponent of some of the weakest contest efforts I've seen. He has you fooled, and that is why I am sad

I've changed the thread title to accurately reflect what is being discussed. If anyone actually attended training and has something to report, start a new thread.

Yes, quite sure. Does your birthday happen to be in November, December or January by any chance? If so, that's why you finished school at 17. If you'd attended school in WA, you would have finished school the year before when you were 16. Edit: Anyone in WA, please feel free to make me look really silly and correct me :-)

RHS means "right hand side" in my line of work. I thought this might be a thread about constraint equations.

Yes it does, it explains it clearly. Just because you can't join the dots doesn't mean that it isn't an explanation. Honestly, your inability to take Logic Point A and Logic Point B, and mix them together to get a reasoned argument still amazes me after 8 years.

They do year 12, it's one of the earlier years they miss (something like the year we call Prep). Net result is finishing a year sooner. Queensland is the same.

Jesse has finished school purely because he happened to attend school in WA, and they finish up a year early over there. If he was in school in Vic, SA, Tas or NSW he'd be in year 12 this year. Unless you're proposing different rules for different kids depending on which state they live in, then the rule is fine and works as it is.

Silly me - you're right. Hogan is the same as Watts, but bigger. Got it. The only way you could logically conclude that the situations were the same was if the players were the same. Watts probably wasn't mentally ready and certainly wasn't physically ready. Hogan is already bigger than most of the people he'd play on so he clearly is physically ready - as for mentally, we're in no position to judge.

Has no relevance to this situation.

Thanks for the info. It's always nice when there's someone around to translate the jargon.

And what's that worth? SFA. Still think it's a waste of time even asking. If he was eligible to play, he should have been in the draft. The AFL can't and won't change the rules half way through the process.

I assumed he'd still be on the MFC payroll anyway, just not fulfilling any official capacity, i.e. stood down on full pay.

I'm not keeping a lid on it. I don't understand the "we've been here before" crowd; which of Miller, Newton, McLean or Sylvia was an athletic barely-18 year old who weighed over 100kg and already marked and won the ball like a pro the year before he was eligible to play? This guy is something new; we haven't been here before and I'm wetting myself with excitement. You downers can go keep a lid on it all you like. I might not have been the first on the bandwagon, but I'm telling everyone I know how good he is going to be already is.