Doggo

6 - James McDonald 5 - Simon Buckley 4 - Cale Morton 3 - Matty Bate 2 - Addam Maric 1 - Mark Jamar (for all his flaws, i still gave him a vote. Beating Hille is no easy feat)

I've been saying this for years. Jamar can improve all he wants, but ruckwork aside, i dont think he'll ever be AFL-quality. He has to be the most flawed footballer at our club IMO, if not in the whole league.

The thing that irks me about Jamar is his absolute lack of skill. Yesterday was a perfect exapmle of this... He just doesnt seem to have the natural ability to play football. Period. However... He's a great ruckman, would jump on a hand grenade for the team and generally always gives his all. It's just given his limitations, i don't see him going anywhere in the AFL in the future, except the scrapheap. I love that he was able to dominate Hille (IMO the A-A ruckman this year) in the ruck, and his big body is useful right after the ruck contest in contested situations. But what after that? He can take a big grab in the forwardline, but he doesnt do that often enough and as we saw yesterday, can often let himself down with his kicking, and while he is working harder than ever around the ground, he's still well below par. I've written him off many a time, and so far this year he's done his best to prove me wrong. But i still believe he'll be a mediocre player at best, with horrible skills and decision making, poor athleticism and no versatility. If yesterday was his best game for the club then something is not right. (IMO his best game(s) have been against Sandilands).

Agree with this completely.

I'll vomit in my mouth and hope i choke on it if we pick up Laycock. lol I think you may well have been unlucky (or lucky, depends how u look at it i guess).

Contrary to popular belief, i still don't think his trade value will have risen much. He's gone from non-existent value, to perhaps a 4th rounder? He's getting a lot of the ball, playing predominantly loose off HB, where it's expected that you get big numbers. Especially when your team is bad and the ball is in the backline all the time. I like CJ and have been impressed with him this year since his return, but the fact of the matter is he's probably of more value to us than he would be to any other team, purely because we've put those years into him developing him, and we're now seeing the rewards. He's got a lot of the ball since he's been back in, but i doubt too many others teams out there would be 'licking their lips' at the prospect of getting CJ, unless it were for dirt cheap, which in all honesty would not benefit us at all.

I wonder. Essendon might feel its a good chance to give young Bellchambers another run against the lowly-Dee's. For what it's worth, i don't rate Laycock at all, and i've got about 4 Essendon-supporter mates who agree with me completly. They prefer Jamar to Laycock ffs!

Definitely. Hille's in career-best form, so their performance willl be a great indicator of where our guys are at. Will be an enthralling battle, i'm looking forward to it!

The 11.4 average came from his total hitouts this year (125) divided by the number of games he has spent playing in the ruck (11). Simple mathematics. Point taken anyway. I do agree there is still room for improvement from him in regard to his rucking, but was simply making the point that he is not as bad as he's made out to be in this respect. He is a ruckman. Admittedly not a great one, as u said is more of a big ruck-rover like a Stynes or White, but at this stage, his stats would suggest he has been at least adequate and is improving. What doesn't flatter his stats either is the fact he hasn't ever been given a chance to play in the #1 role. But, say for instance if Jamar were to go down injured early against the Bombers this week, and PJ then had to ruck 90-95% game time on the ball rucking solo, IMO he would be able to hold his own or at least break even in ruck, and on the plus side, would probably get close to 30 touches and 20+ hitouts around the ground and a goal or two. It'll happen soon i think... The way he's being used at the moment, he is basically already playing that role. I think if White were to return to the team, then there'd be a real possibility we could see PJ on the wing, Richo-style, but i dont rate White's chances of getting back in to be honest. I'm just waiting for that day when PJ explodes at the 'G and kicks a bag goals and has a heap of possies and marks, and dominates Richo-style, whether on the wing, floating thru HF or playing in the ruck. He went really well last week, so he's getting closer, he just needs to back it up a few more times before i can come out and say 'i told you so...!' to all the early doubters...

Haha, that made me laugh.

Interesting topic! Does Neitz still qualify for this? Fwiw... Physical attributes Height- Martin (198cm) Build- Miller Speed- Davey / Buckley Endurance- Bruce / Dunn Agility/evasiveness- Davey Leap- Robbo / Sylvia Mental attributes Decision making- McLean / Davey Leadership- Neitz(?). Green Work-rate- Miller / Jones Reading the play- Rivers Skills Kick- Davey / Wonaeamirri Handball- P. Johnson Mark- Holland Tackling- Whelan Set-Shots- Miller (improved out of sight this year, 18.3 from set shots) All in all, we'd have a 198cm utility player, capable of playing Key Forward/Back, midfield and pinch-hitting in the ruck. The skills and pace of Davey, Miller's body, Robbo's leap, the work-rate of Jones, endurance of Bruce, Whelan's tackling and pack-marking strength of Ben Holland... I think this bloke already exists... Lance Franklin anyone?

Agree. He's either not right physically (i.e. he's carrying an injury) which is not allowing him to work as hard as he'd like, and/or years of OP has taken it's toll and he no longer has the burst in his legs, along with the right attitude to work harder given those physical limitations. He looked slow and tired against the Roo's, and basically just looked lost. I've abstained from commenting about Sylvia until now, but geez... he was really bad. Someone hit the nail on the head in the '3-word player analysis' thread when they said: "was he drunk?" He was playing without a brain or legs yesterday.

Hate to nit-pick, but he actually averages 11.4 hitouts per game in the ruck this season, from 11 matches (of 13) playing as 'relief ruckman'. That's above average for most #2 rucks in the league. He is also leading our hitouts-to-advantage this season, as was mentioned earlier in this thread. Remember, in the other 2 games, against Adelaide (R8, he played FB on Tippett) and Sydney (R13, played FF/CHF) he played as a full-time KPP, not contesting in the ruck at all.

I'm sure he meant Hayes, but point taken. Daniel Hughes was around 186cm, delisted at the end of '07 after 2 or 3 seasons on the rookie list? Is still on the Sandringham list, i think, originally being from Hampton Rovers. FWIW, i didnt really think either of them would make it, but i remember Hughes playing well in a NAB cup match a couple of years back. Hayes had some off-field and attitude issues, but was infinitely talented and with pace to burn. Just never got it together while he was in the system. Hopefully he'll be a very good player for us. His positioning wasn't too bad, and his widely-acclaimed skills look very nice. It seemed more just a lack of strength playing against men that held him back IMO.. Once he gets a bit more size about him, he'll be able to compete more effectively without getting pushed off the ball, which happened a few times on Sunday, and he'll hopefully develop into a star, as he has talent to burn. (Same thing could be said about Cale, and even Col Garland and Stef Martin. A couple of pre-seasons in the gym and these guys'll be great!). Aussie does seem to demand the footy a lot more, even at this early stage of his career, and is also a lot more solid and nuggety in build than Maric. More ready-made for AFL, you could say, though he'll improve so much too with a full pre-season. Exciting times ahead for our small-forwards. Lots to look forward to with these two young fellas..

Yep. Aussie has it all over Hayes. Where is Daniel even playing this season? FWIW, Hayes had all the skills to make it, but somehow never ever even looked like getting close. He wasn't even playing as a regular for Sandy. Very much in the same boat to how Issac Weetra is playing now.

It's gotta be easier to teach a bloke the 'easy' stuff then it is to run and kick like PJ can. I thought his physicality was outstanding today. He laid a lot of tackles in close, and used his big body really well. And when he was playing at CHF, was charging in hard off the line and cleaning blokes up in the guts. On at least 2 occassions his clearing a path directly resulted in clearances to teammates. He does need to improve on this aspect of his game when he is rucking, but today was a good step forward. I look forward to seeing the hitout to advantage % stat in the paper tomorrow- i thought he was fairly good at spotting teammates at the centre ruck duels. If he can perform like he did today consistently, he'll be a very good AFL player.

A Kangaroo's supporter about 3 seats over to my right felt the full brunt of the 'attack', copping a fresh, steaming bird-poo on his head. Poor guy. I'm just glad it wasnt me.

6- P. Johnson - Our best by a fair way, IMO. Got heaps of the ball, used it really well, and threw his body around. Career-best game to date. 5- C. Johnson - Just keeps getting heaps of the footy, and uses it very well. Is doing much more defensively too. 4- Valenti - Along with Jones, controlled our engine room. 3- Buckley - Exiciting but reckless youngster. 2- Davey - A reasonable performance from Flash. 1- Warnock - Did the job on Corey Jones after he carved us up early. Jones and Miller stiff to miss out.

Just had a look at the Freo one... cant stop PMSL!

Spot on post. Agree 100%

I can feel my pants tightening up now just thinking about it...

...we're all guilty of having at least one 'love child' aren't we, Jaded? I thought PJ had a consistent game after IMO an outstanding 1st quarter. He didn't flash in and out of the game like many of his teammates, which is why he got into my votes this week. He seemed to rack up possies at will all day, and his finishing skills were a feature. It was a pleasant contrast to the bullocking and grunt work of Jamar, though IMO, Jamar still went missing for too long a period of time to be considered for votes. Martin was fantastic in the first half, but seemed to fade (as expected from a guy in his 3rd game) as Freo got rolling. In hindsight, i'd probably give Martin the 2 and PJ 1, but as i said earlier, its so hard to give votes when i'm not at the game because you've got really no idea whats going on around the ground. For this reason I find it a lot harder to give votes to defenders when watching it on TV...

Yep. By a mile...

I agree with basically all the sentiments already expressed here. He WILL be a gun IF he can get his disposal right! He's got all the ingredients to become an explosive and damaging player, his work-ethic is good and his defensive side has improved... but, if he keeps butchering it the way he does, he'll be the next David Spriggs. I hope for his and the clubs sake thats not the case. I find hope in the fact that, if clubs can teach guys Tadgh Kennelly and Marty Clarke to be effective kickers and decision-makers with the ball, even after learning the game late, then theres hope still for Bucks, who at the moment looks more like an athlete than a true footballer- but with infinite potential. I initially see him filling a role similar to the above two irish players, running off half back for the next couple of seasons, until eventually, with more size, strength and experience, moving into the midfield full time (and hopefully, being a star! ). But if he doesn't improve his kicking, at best, he'll be the next Daniel Ward, or just another athletic-but-NQR player, like Spriggs, dominating the state leagues.

Agree completely. I thought Davey was particularly good when we were up, in fact he was the main catalyst to our great start, and he wasn't our worst when we were getting belted. Unfortunately for an outside player like him, it's very difficult to have an impact when our inside ball-winners are getting smashed.