iv'a worn smith

I understand that Dawes joined in all the drills, but looks to be lacking condition. Understandable of course, but hopefully a good sign for the not too distant future.

It is actually a sad indictment on the club, that this is in fact so true for many of us, but is there truly any comfort in knowing that?

And 2 cents of some worth. We must stick by Roos. If he can't do it, I am not sure anybody else can. Jackson has managed to restore a semblance of credibility off the field, but as he says himself, previous regimes have betrayed the trust of supporters and PJ and his team's job is to earn that trust back. As PJ is on the record as saying, you can only really start doing that by improved performances on field. Let's hope it comes. I will maintain my faith in that regard. It is simply a non-negiotiable that the club earns back the respect of not only its long suffering supporters, but the football world in general.

You say it all Scoop. I am tired of platitudes and excuses. We stuffed up big time over the last decade and we're now paying this inordinate price. To talk about mitigating circumstances, in the case of the MFC, is to somehow portray us as unique. Like, no other club has had to contend with drafting, injuries and list management issues to the extent that we have? We just have to suck it up, previous regimes got things so monumentally wrong, that we will pay the price for a while to come yet. Sure, our possession count has improved; no question. But we are still incredibly bereft of talent, which is unparalleled with any other AFL team.

In his premiership year of 2005, Roos had a significant cohort of so-called 'rejects', which he clearly identified as being made of the right stuff and complementing the heart and soul of the Swans team, which included the likes of Leo Barry, Brett Kirk, Nic Fosdike, Jude Bolton and of course Mickey O'Loughlin and Adam Goodes. Roos and his football department's ability to identify talent to meld with this core was clearly brilliant, given the 2005 result. Barry Hall, Paul Williams, Nick Davis, Darren Jolly and Jason Ball put the cream on the Swans cake. Some brilliance, some erratic (see Hall), some considered also rans at their previous clubs and others simply work horses. Of course, Roos had a fairly solid core as the foundation, something which the Dees have lacked for some considerable period. The legacy continued under John Longmire, drafting the likes of Ted Richards, Marty Mattner, Rhyce Shaw, Shane Mumford, Mitch Morton and Josh Kennedy, a strategy which also saw the culmination of a winning premiership side. Perhaps Roo's believed (and hopefully still does) that he can replicate his Swans experience at the MFC, by astutely identifying the talent required, some of which may even fly under the radar for other clubs. Clearly though, at the present time, he has a lot less to work with, given his current playing stocks at Melbourne. He unfortunately, as with his previous 2 predecessors at Melbourne, is burdened with the legacy of an extremely poor recruiting strategy by former MFC football departments and a regime that, it would seem, believed first round draft picks would cure all our ills, while neglecting to nurture whatever talent we may have had on the pre-existing list. What wasn't considered, in my view, was the damage this strategy did to the very fabric of our club. How long will we have to endure and pay the price for such profligacy? We can only hope Roos still has the right stuff and the fire in the belly, to see the job through. As a side note, is it me, or does Roos lack the use of the pronoun, "we", when addressing the media?

I think Roos post game presser said it all. Maybe for him the reality has absolutely dawned. I was previously of the view that perhaps our list wasn't as bad as the previous few years suggested and by getting a coach that the players respected and by whom a chance was given to these guys to enjoy their footy again, the upside would be greater than the downs this year. Seems I was categorically wrong. OK, we're only 2 rounds in, but you would have to be the ultimate optimist to think we can turn this around in a matter of weeks. Tall forwards or not. What worries me the most is I cannot think of any precedent where a side is so consistently inept and gets whacked so consistently. Maybe not since the Fitzroy days or for that matter, ourselves in the 70's and early 80's. Sorry for the bleakness of my post, but I feel pretty gutted this morning. Just waiting for my mates' usual condescending emails to hit my inbox this Monday morning

Miss you big Jimmy.

Well said Jane. Nothing more needs to be said really on this topic. All the best Mitch and just know people often come back bigger, stronger and better having gone through adversity. True Dees supporters are with you 100%

Obviously with Roos and Misson, there is a very cautious approach when looking after our talls. No more playing a handful of games and then worsening a pre-existing injury which sees the likes of Clark out for the majority of the season/s. If we get 75% games from these guys I will be happy.

Just a very good bloke. Fate has a habit of dealing bad hands to good people. RIP Dean. Thoughts go out to the family.

I get back to my original point, despite a "few" in Canberra taking up the GWS mantle, the Wanderers have made a lot of the sporting arable land in that region, their own. Maybe the AFL can overcome this, who knows, but is it worth it in the long run and are there other markets ripe for the AFL picking which are better alternatives? That is the opportunity cost that needs to be valued. How much time and money do we need to pour into this venture? Just as an aside, if "Melbourne" is considered not to be a marketable commodity in AFL terms then there has to be something terribly wrong with the marketing model. There will always be a 'Melbourne' AFL entity. There has to be.

No doubt, but at what cost to your core? In any business, in any market, there is an opportunity cost to expenditure on expansion. None of us on here know what that opportunity cost is, but one thing is for sure, we have a right to question it.

I don't subscribe to the "earth is flat" brigade, nor am I a luddite. However, expansion for expansion's sake is bad business mostly. The revenue that drives the setting up of teams such as GWS and the Suns is almost entirely generated by TV rights. In the case of GWS, they are in a particularly volatile sporting market. Western Sydney, given its demographic, was primed to have a well supported and successful round ball team. Indeed the Wanderers have done just that. Sydney is a very fickled market; "theatre goers" in the main. Let's say GWS, as it undoubtedly will, with the continuing help of the AFL, drag itself up from the bottom to be finalists. What of the Swan's, can Sydney town sustain 2 AFL teams. Will the positive results for a GWS team have a converse negative affect for the Swans? I for one doubt that Sydney can support 2 teams in the long run. As for the Suns, sure a lot of ex-pats on the Gold Coast, but many are itinerant or retirees already set in their ways. There are a litany of failed GC sporting sides, but I am prepared to wait to see how the Suns track over the next 5 to 8 years. But with GWS, I have serious doubts. As with any business, while you always look at broadening your revenue base, the first rule is to protect you core business.

Ably led by you. Now who wants to get back to the topic at hand first? The old adage seems to apply here. "I thought I was wrong once, only to find out I made a mistake'

Pots and kettles come to mind here. As for irrelevance, it was not WYL who embarked upon a misguided accusation. Happy to get back to the topic, but I didn't initiate the detour.

Agree with this. However, to suggest that WYL comment has some sinister undertone is simply ridiculous. RR, you would do well to stop the digression yourself.

May have been already covered on previous pages and if so then apologies, but PJ did state at the AGM that we were expecting "another significant partner to join the club". Any ideas?

"detailed programmatic specificity…”

I remember when sides won the pre-season comp from the late 80's up until about 10 years ago. The "premier" usually ended up playing finals at the end of the season proper. No so now necessarily. That said, and despite Roos' previous position on this comp, I agree that even wins in this mickey mouse competition can only help the confidence in the group. But more importantly, it would be good for the sponsors and would be just the boost we need as we strive to get 40K members in 2014. Perhaps that's the most important thing to keep in mind as we approach the NAB competition this year.

As stated earlier, these days it is about being a professional footballer. Most who are drafted don't make it to 50 games. If your job had the potential for such a limited tenure, would you not try and maximise your earning potential? Being a football player is Chippers job, not a weekend pastime. He has every right to explore his career opportunities. That said, he is a loyal servant of the club to this point in time and has right to expect his employer to provide him with some incentive, over and above money, to keep doing his job with the same employer. Unlike other naysayers, I believe that will happen. Chip does not need us to be knocking on the door of the 8 in 2014, he's just looking for the club to be clearly heading in a positive direction. If that happens and I reckon it will this year, Chip stays in my opinion.

What about Ray Carr, Russell Colcott and Shane McSpeerin?

At last some reason Oucher. You summed it up well. Pre-season, every club is flying, optimistic about the season ahead, last years also rans look ripped and never have trained better. The media is starved of some sensational headlines and therefore go fishing. Yes, Mitch has not played much in 2 years. Precisely the reason why Roos, the medicos and fitness staff will take it very cautiously with him. As oucher said, if the foot was still a real issue, the moonboot would be prevalent. Based on a very vague report in the currant bun, I am not reaching for the alarm bells yet.

Spot on. Over a cleansing ale with a Dees mate of mine last night, we discussed the very same thing. Point about the star chamber - so-called - investigation of the Dees, was that it became personal, particularly with one female journalist targeting our former CEO. The AFL will of course deny it, but as we know when the potential for litigation rears its head, deals are done with no more than a nod and wink. Certain people just don't want their dirty linen aired in public.

Let's just say it's the weather in this case mono. First time in a long time that I have been extremely happy to be in my air conditioned office. That said, perhaps Jack W could take some lessons in hardness from this

Lagavulin is not a bad drop just quietly and I hope single malt lovers on here dont spoil the nectar with ice.