pitmaster

And if you include their camo strip they add vomit to their traditional Werribee option.

It is a shame this debate is taking place but consider the context that has provoked it: we are in the tougher half of our season's draw. Expansions aside, the first 11 rounds include eight against finals contenders as perceived at the start of the year, plus Port Adelaide who have clearly taken big strides over summer (off a better base than us). Rounds 12-22 look to be a better measure of where we stand with games against the Bdogs (twice), the expansions (on the road), the Saints, Norf, Brisbane again and contenders like Sydney and Freo. By this time Clark and Grimes and Watts and Dawes should all be available and even if some are not the teams in the second half include those we can better measure ourselves against. And finally, I am with M Jones when he says the scoreboard did not do us justice last week. We were better than that and for whatever reason are playing better football than in rounds one to three.

correct.

Class war the past 10 years in this country has been the preserve of the conservatives...they're just smart enough to throw the label at the other side whenever anything is mentioned that might address the middle class and corporate handouts they have been so effective with. As for the principal topic here, we need to stay staunch. Nothing is achieved with revisiting this every week. Neeld has to be given his chance. You won't attract a decent replacement - if that's where this is going - if we turn ourselves into a modern day Richmond. I agree he may well have come on too strong but the players have to be big boys and cop it oh so sweetly now and then. If not, they'll never have the grunt we need in any case.

Good to see the club putting the heat back on the AFL. For Demetriou to tell CW he was 'furious' about MFC not revealing all it knew is disgraceful, and clearly an attempt to put the AFL in the clear when they should not have been blindsided by Four Corners. Someone was not paying attention. Caro of course could not think independently or pose any queries - she'd just swallow and regurge like always. The AFL's head girl and snitch. But the club looks to be in the clear. Bates looks to be sunk and certainly it's hard to see the club trusting him again. JT? who knows? I'm in the camp that says we don't know if he acquired the cream, and if he did, whether he used it.

Yeah, his sole mark an absolute match saver, poor Richmond.

Total BS. I remember a rolling maul of constant physicality that advanced the ball 50 metres the wrong way with barely a clear possession. Blokes put in. We were not quite there and we met a mighty team at the peak of its powers, just like in 2000.

And Neita's was a totally legit hip and shoulder that would still be legal today. What Dipper was up to in 1988 was something else besides.

That would be appropriate since he always murders us. They'd be tempted.

Trouble is, WJ, if Caro's performance Monday night is any guide that's how the AFL works, too.

Can't get it to play but I am glad someone is calling her out on being the AFL's hand puppet. Her performance on FC last night was appalling. Sided with the AFL to rip into a club president. Everything the AFL did was impeccable and everything Brayshaw did was delusional and wrong, she reckons. Since when was it the media's role to play attack dog on behalf of the authorities? She had clearly been briefed by the AFL - just as they leaked their investigation 'facts' to her over the summer. She is clearly on the drip and you have to wonder would she get a story at all without Demetriou's say-so. The joke is the AFL employ dozens of journalists in their media unit - so why do they need her? It seems no journo can afford to take on the AFL for fear they'll be frozen out, and instead the opposite happens. They turn into damn lap dogs. The worry for us is that she was talking up fines and other penalties for misleading the AFL re Bates, Danks etc. We know where that's coming from and we also know they throw out penalties even when the offence is not proved.

Interesting you say that since it was not an accusation but clearly a statement of belief. BTW, you have not picked up 316 on another thread declaring Neeld to have lied when none of us can know if that is the case. Now why would that be?

Success when it comes will come quickly. The point about his switch from defence to offence is misunderstood by some. It's not an all or nothing thing but our blokes have had to learn, and are still learning how to defend all over the ground. We haven't got it yet and our skills don't allow us to do it either. But it comes in stages. Our offensive game has been neglected precisely because it's building blocks. Defence is the foundation and we have started on that, but every time we play there has to be a mix of styles. It's a matter of shifting emphasis from game to game. Neeld is introducing modern concepts to our club. We have to give him time. End of story.

Correct. While he exasperated me later in the game, particularly the middle two quarters, he was good in the first: he won a couple of contests in the last line and cleared well, and the instance Jumbo is referring to happened because of a series of angled bounces of the ball. Watts was initially on the right line to attack the footy, but, and anyone can confirm this watching the Foxtel replay, the ball takes a series of leftward bounces that carry it towards the corridor and away from Watts' approach. Out of the play so far as winning the footy is concerned, he did the next best thing which was to take out his opponent, and again, because the GWS player is following the ball he is angled away from Watts so the bump is less effective than it might have been, but still did its work. He also came good in the last term, but I have to agree with others, while the criticism in this incident is undeserved he is so much better than he is showing right now. I say keep him, and play him on the wing. Dawes, Mitch and eventually Hogan will love his delivery.

I hated watching him yesterday. He did create some good clearances from defence and several times used the ball well, but gee, he loafed outside the packs so often as well. And when he had the chance to really line up one of the oppo he half stuffed that as well. But he was good late last year and he was good at times yesterday. He is not so much timid as tentative right now. Needs confidence desperately. The Carey-mentor idea I like but even if that does not happen Neeld must persist with him because he has enormous potential. How about the wing? With Hogan, Dawes, Mitch and Pedo as a stand in from next year, he is not needed as a key forward as planned, but his ability to use the ball and direct it to strong marking targets could be his go.

Not true: even the Sun labelled our first quarter 'great'. We were lousy for the second and much of the third quarters but don't exaggerate.

Is English your second language? I said it was a belief. The evidence which encouraged me in that belief was a paragraph in a Caroline Wilson article.

I've scanned 12 pages of this forum and found not thread labelled gameplan to which I could add this because we have been so consumed with scandal and sackings. One thing: all those who reckon Neeld has no game plan should take a look not at that glorious final quarter yesterday, but the first quarter. Despite what The Age says this am, we outplayed GWS in the first term and with better finishing would have been three or four goals up at the break. What was noticeable to me was the urgency in our ball movement. Players were looking to give off after a mark to keep the ball heading forward, or they played on themselves. There was overlap run and run and carry. It is a much more aggressive style than has been attributed to Neeld who obviously either freed the players from total defense or is a more nuanced character than has been credited. There was a bit of Geelong in the intent, which is encouraging since it is an attractive brand of football that people want to see. The quick fire style is clearly a work in progress: too many handpasses were misjudged or poorly executed for us to truly put them to the sword but the intent was there. Also yesterday with Mitch, Gawn and Pedo starting forward together we were shown a hint of the structure Neeld wants to go with. Those who have bagged his recruiting of Burns, Rodan, Gillies, Pedo etc might have to pull their heads in a tad. Burns was crucial to keeping us in it in the dreadful second term (where did that run and urgency go?) and I thought we all knew in any case that he was recruited as much for what he takes to training as his game day stuff but yesterday he shone, And Pedo's contested marks were important. He did not get much of it but made great use of his opportunities. I know the opposition wasn't much and they outplayed us at times but coming from behind is a better way to win than an all day cruise. Enjoy the fact we tried to play to a style, showed some grit and wrote some history.

Good game yesterday. Very solid. One of several positives to come out of it.

No slur intended against the 20 year servant. I believe, and I never put it higher than that, it was the junior medico had a bit to say re re tanking. I agree with your comments re Daff. Honourable fellow who was sorry to leave.

Jesus H, were you even at the game?

Two years at Norf. One with Swans.

Daff. His name is Daff. Did more than 20 years and is a life member. Had a blue with Misson early last year I believe, over whether a player could train or not. This was when Mission was in his 'these blokes are only 50-per cent AFL-ready mode'. Daff and the second medico Fried or Freid - forget which but I think he dropped us in it on the tanking investigation - left together.

Confession time: I hate seeing any of our players hurt but when Strauss broke his leg - against Carlton wasn't it - as he went down my reflex thought was oh well, if it was going to happen to anyone best it be JS because he's shown nothing. Whoever compared him to Maric was spot on. I never saw anything in Maric's 20-odd games that suggested why he was drafted either. If Strauss continues to shine at VFL level he is sure to get another chance but as much as I'd like to be wrong I won't hold my breath.

You need to catch up with developments.