pitmaster

Some of us are starting to understand what trading is about. It's not what you give up but what you bring to your list and how you build that list that counts. On that score Mahoney's done as well as anyone - no make that better than anyone - since the draft was introduced.

Like many others here I am OK with this trade, although 12 months ago I would have been appalled. Hoges has much more to offer but clearly we were faced with a player who was determined to go home. Weideman showed enough for us to take a punt on him and TMac supported by Jake M and maybe Frisch to go back to attack as our forward structure so that we could let Hoges go. We at least got a monster defender for our trouble and if KadeK comes up trumps it's been a pretty reasonable return. Well done to the footy department in difficult circumstances. Hoges farewell message showed some class too. On another note, I don't actually think Hoges has done himself any onfield favours. Ross Lyon is not a coach that fosters much loyalty or confidence. Has all the warmth and charisma of a tiger snake.

Nice try but not enough for the Crows to play along.

Agree with the sentiment, I think. But wrapt? No 'w' in enraptured which is the word you're abbreviating. Here endeth the lesson.

Really, the reason I don't want him back - and in any case the little #@%$ wants to go to Hawthorn whose colours could not be more appropriate - is that he has not been an impact player to anything like the extent you'd want. And there is the injury cloud...so the hell with him. It's significant also that the Giants are willing to let him go and have other much higher priorities.

'Did" good things, but otherwise you're right. He was good for Freo and did alright in his first stint with us.

Delighted to keep the big fella, but let's sign him to an extension for three more years asap. Freo, on this display have no trade credibility at all and Hoges should burn his bridges there. They have treated him appallingly and hopefully he will dismiss them in future,

Plucked from the obscurity of ACT football at age 22 and seven months and given the opportunity to realise his dream of playing at the highest level, manages well for a season and then is supported financially and medically for almost two full seasons of rehabilitation, during which time he is paid...at a guess, something in excess of $300,000... Yes, I say he does owe the club at this point in time. People, members, supporters, team mates, coaches have invested in vdB, supported him morally and physically and seven comeback games is not enough return. He clearly feels the same way now there is nothing between the Sydney and MFC offers and has chosen to stay. All football clubs are a community of shared aspirations and experiences where the journey together counts for plenty. Belonging to those who take that ride with you is what gives the experience meaning. It is a sterile place you inhabit, Cards, where the only loyalty is to oneself and one's close relatives. I won't be joining you there, or even applying for a tourist visa.

Wonderful news. He owes the club for the support he has had, but it's great that he wants to stay. Good news for the hardness of our list. Hope he makes it to 100 games.

Interesting to note that 2015 onwards no grand finalist has reappeared the following year: 2015: Hawthorn - West Coast 2016: Bulldogs-Sydney, 2017: Richmond-Adelaide, 2018: West Coast-Woods. Agree we would not have stood up under the Pies' early onslaught yesterday but we grew through this year and there's no reason to think we can't advance next year to the big one. Genuine pace through the middle with quality disposal is the missing element. Imitation of the premiers happens but it's smarter to devise a strategy that works for your list. That's what the Dogs and Tigers did. And the Eagles.

I agree. And what's great about it is that in 30 years' time Pie fans will still be complaining about it the way they do about 1979 (Wayne Harmes) and 1964 (Ball up rather then Pie free in front of goal with seconds left).

Relieved that the Pies blew it. They were outplayed for three quarters and it just needed the Weagles to put it on the board. Happiest mostly because J Howe does not get a medal. He and his manager made it impossible for us to keep him, and we were screwed as a result so screw you Jeremy.

Clearly not enough people read the papers regularly. This story about him running the family business from Melbourne was explained before our first final. Totally understandable conflict here. Hope he stays.

While it's unfair to lay into any one individual when the team effort was so poor yesterday showed us that Lewis is almost finished. His lack of discipline - thumping an opponent off the ball while the ball is in our possession near the opponent's goal is so monumentally dumb it is beyond words - and then his feeble misdirected handpass that sets up an early goal for them, and his lack of run says he should serve out his final year as part of the coaching panel. If he is on the field for more than half a dozen games I'll be surprised. Tyson, plenty of others have marked his papers and I am not one to disagree. Trade if anyone bites, otherwise depth only. For the off-season - Spargo into the gym to put some strength into his legs so he can kick beyond 30 metres, Max to kicking class - it's appalling that he replicated his Geelong miss yesterday, and how about a new team rule that allows players to take a shot themselves when they are running directly towards goal, rather than attempting a dinky 20 metre pass to a team mate with two opponents? I mean really, that has to be a rule? FMD. Recruit, either draft or trade, for some outside run. Our inside game is great when our heads are in the contest but we need to bring some dash. Maybe Hunt can be developed to bring that but it is our greatest need. The shame of yesterday is that we embarrassed ourselves and this is what will be remembered. Brayshaw was terrible and Petracca well below his best but they will improve. There is plenty to be positive about. The Weid next year will be less weed-like after another preseason. He was simply forced out of contests yesterday and monstered by men with very mature bodies. J Smith will get better. I was impressed that he stuck at his game after being moved forward. Clarry, Angus, Trac, Salem, TMac, Hoges, Lever, Max and Jack make up a powerful and youthful core that should be with us for a minimum five years barring mishaps. There is plenty to take out of this year and like WB, I don't have time for whining about 'we've had 54 years of this' the way some do on this site. Because for 20 years (1987-2006) we consistently made finals. Right now we have a group that's potentially better than anything we have seen in that period. It's not the time to focus on yesterday, but to learn from it.

Priority One - that was easy. Good luck to the rest of you. Here's hoping we get there.

Instinct - and Goodwin's record - says no change to a winning formula.

And it featured that sniping [censored] Michael Osborne...no wonder even Hawk fans couldn't muster any enthusiasm. Osborne was always code for cheating, backhanding hack.

Stevic's not bad. One out three at least.

Oh this is going swimmingly now. Thanks Mike. And Brent.

Keeper.

I find opposition players easy to hate but I alway admired David King. Hard and skilled and strong: a great combination. He'd have looked brilliant in red and blue.

And has two more goal assists by hand...

Thanks for that...here's hoping.

Seeking a considered opinion about the Weid's game at Casey. (Mods feel free to merge this with the Weid thread once KC and other serious Casey watcher give their view.) How has the Weid's game developed this year at Casey? How's his ruck work...his marking...leading...kicking? Give us the works.

As a Pedo fan for a long time I am happy to say now that Pedo's game is too limited for him to take the spot the Weid should logically have this week. The Weid is superior in the ruck to Pedo, and the Weid has a future. His kicking is as good as, if not better than Hoges who was seriously twitchy against the Swans. Sure the Weid has not set the world on fire goal kicking wise but Hoges is on average good for just over two per game. If the Weid gave us that and offered relief for Gawn in the ruck he will have done his job. He must be given the chance for the next two weeks. While his body may not be ready for big pack marks, he reads it well in the air and his hands as far as I have seen them are clean.