red&blue&true

i hear it beating buddy. lets enjoy hearing it drown out the world.

seeya neita - thanks for the memories big fella, hope your neck heals ok for your post football life. cheers.

Franklin.

bah, it was reported he was in the Carlton rooms b4 their game tonight. Wouldn't put it past them :angry:

lol at anyone thinkin 5-10 years is a short period. you [censored].

Jonesy is awesome. Sam thought he wouldnt get up there, Jones dont back down from challenges!

Look i agree with you about winning contested footy, hitting targets and the rest - but the minor side condiments are important in champion sides - intimidation, presence, basically being in your opponents head when THEY have to go stick their head over the ball can effect a game, to argue otherwise is ridicolous! Wrong. The AFL havent outlawed shirtfronts executed properly - players are expected to be aware within vicinity of the ball. Read the rules. Check the Xavier Clarke / Kosi incidents. Whelan/Ball i could name countless others do you have any idea? Laughable, he built his reputation on those hits - he intimidated, he was a very good footballer, those "minor side condiments" were major parts of his game - and used efficiently by the coaches that won premierships with him in their side. Hahaha yeah Dermies living in the 80's The Hawks players are living in the 80's too The Hawks will be revisting the 80's with a flag sometime soon - they intimidate, they did it to us in rnd 1 - they zone off and OWN a space of the ground. They hit hard to force turnovers then score rebounding. Clarkson instructs his players to play on the edge, is he in the 80's too Rhino?? Or a current day AFL coach with an undefeated list?? When are you going to realise that men get in the way of the ball. its OK to run through them to get to it. thats football. You'd have the player tiptoe around him so he doesnt get hurt How often did Neitz get suspended doing it?, opposition knew they wouldnt get away with it. Millers our biggest bloke, and i dont want him running in throwing haymakers, but if a Morton or even Davey got absoloutly cleaned up unfairly - imho hes a leader he needs to be in there and making the opposition know it isnt acceptable to snipe the Demons. Sometimes a statement needs to be made, like Halls hit on Staker.. [censored] weak reaction from the Eagles players really. Players dont play for the coach or the game plan or even the [censored] jumper or the money when they are playing well its because they are playing for each other! knowing your teammates will "goto war" with you and for you, should it be needed is essential and not just a minor condiment of an intangible toughness. Again more rubbish, he had an oppurtunity to hurt one of their best onballers within the rules of the game - it was GREAT. He did the right thing that any coach would be happy with except your fair play everyone fantasty world. Temporarily incapacitated Ball he came back on but he was not at 100%, and in fact missed the next 2-3 weeks from the force of the hit. To suggest Whelans hit on Ball was a reason we lost that game is seriously dumb. And Whelan plays with presence every week, and that hit is one of those reasons, you think other AFL players dont see matches they arent directly involved in? or big hits? its called perceived pressure mate, Pickett had it.. not because of his great hard ball winning ability, players were scared! Great teams develop it, the Lions as a group had an aura of perceived pressure from a reputation that was in their opponents heads before the ball even bounced, they didnt do that by dancing and pirouting and taking the occasional speccy they hit bodies.. or were they in the 80's too?

No.. players never get bullied sorry your so correct. I suppose next you'll inform me how useless sledging is - clearly abusing people has no place on a football field, not fair game to get inside your opponents head Its no wonder you dont quote, because you like to twist words, i said i can only think of 1 side in the last 20 years that have won flags WITHOUT enforcers. Adelaide didnt finish top 4 either year. They got beaten in finals in 98 (by us!) and through the weirdass finals system were allowed to keep going and North kicked somethin like 2.12 in the 2nd quarter in the GF - if any team has ever fluked a flag it would be Adelaide in 98, but hey they have the cup so good luck to them.

depressing

They will be 2 more sides we wont draw crodes against in Melbourne. I Pretty much fear the AFL will force out a merger and give Tassie a team they have somuch control when it comes to keeping you viable or not.. Our finances arent worse then the Bulldogs who receive what 1.3 million more ASD each year then us.. but no1 talks about them, they had to have a membership drive despite sitting at 4-0 Its all about Melb and North being the basketcases in the print media, and as some of the journalists are spoon fed, pretty sure some exec at AFL house has this scenario earmarked...

Round 4: Melbourne lost to Bulldogs 87 to 89 Pretty sure Neitz kicked 7 on Grant that night, yet Grant got 3 votes on Brownlow night... which in the end had him clear of Robert Harvey... footy justice shined when Grant was ruled ineligable

1997 Round 1: Melbourne def Nth Melb 70 to 55 Round 2: Melbourne lost to Collingwood 56 to 163 Remember those 2 games well, we screwed up Careys shoulder and beat the reigning premiers in rnd 1.. next week was one of the worst matches ive ever seen MFC play.... and against Collingwood.....

No i do understand the difference, but i also understand that the only team that has won a premiership in the last 20 years without enforcers or players prepared to take an opponent out of the game at every available oppurtunity is probably the fluke years Adelaide in 97-and 98 got up. No again you mistake what i want - i dont want players acting tough. thats the problem, i want them to be tough. Know they are tough, know their teammates are tough, Brock & Jones are exactly the sort of players i want across every line, my points are valid, they are better leaders then the ones we have - the barroom brawl scenario was a bit tounge in cheek, and while football isnt brawling and cheap shots, they are contests that can develop during games, especially the ones that really matter like GF's - when the opposition have players prepared to do it, and we dont we are screwed. - his presence on the football field is a huge part of his game - FWIW i think Millers a dud, but could contribute to the side if he chooses to play an enforcer role for the team - note above every single premiership side in the last 20 years having them. He was also reported a few times coming off the line when we were "challenging" in the ND years.. And honestly thats the best hes ever looked in red & blue on field. Pickett was also recruited, why you think this was? ND and every other "boofhead" that follows football knows you need these kinda blokes that some consider thugs to win flags. Oh great, we have a training coach thats a good guy in the leadership group at the MFC

Richmond aren't our worry Terry Wallet needs to show improvement to keep his job. It's Cartel Land. They would have no shame taking 4 consecutive no:1 picks - and Ratten would survive through to next year, if they lose their next 3... watch them undust those Tanks.

No they are actually pretty good.

I know that Carroll, Brock, Jones, Whelan and Rivers all play tougher football then our current leaders. Obviously you don't! THATS AMAZING. Yeah Halls numbers in his final years at ST Kilda were alot better then remembered, but doesnt change the fact that if Miller played with more AGRO, he would be more effective, more inspiring, more of a leader then the clumsy dud thats only got an AFL career because our KPP recruiting has been terrible and he "trains well" WTF. I nailed it.

They said the same about Miller few years back Hall was mud at St Kilda thats the truth. Thats right! because he doesnt breathe fire or play on the edge - he can mark, hes big, hes fast enough, his engine is good enough - His Kicking for goal probably isnt as good, nor his leading ability, but that CAN be taught if theres an opening at FF which there obviously is - Miller & Hall for that matter lack good general play awareness, which why playing him up the ground has always resulted in him looking clumsy. Keep it simple, lead mark, kick for goal - but can he breathe the fire for more then just the first 10mins after a rev up pre match?? Hes the biggest member of the leadership group out there, if the Swans copped a bad first quarter, Hall set the standard in roughing people up, bit of wrestling showing the team theres still fight and to not lie down, Miller doesnt do this at all Wrong. Halls presence in the forward line for the last 3 years in Sydney has been huge. Also Sydney dont cop a lot of sniping and you wouldnt accuse anyone of their list lacking toughness, if you think blokes dont play bigger and tougher when they have big tough blokes backing them up you have rocks in your head. No [censored] his hit on Staker was OVER the edge, and not on the edge, where he plays his best football - i dont glorify that at all, i glorify him for his previous 3 years, in which he has been agressive, scarey, landed multiple hard hits on people and missed 0 games through suspension, and as you stated had a premiership side built around him, You think Roos doesnt want him back? or his actions in 2008 diminish how valuable he was in the 2005 premiership and in 2006 making the GF if not in it.. Last year Hall dropped off.. so did the Swans. What rubbish "violent video games" - "onfield discretions that are the domain of the brainless" i am happy to glorify tough football from blokes that dont back down when someone gets in their face or gets a little physical. But maybe we'll just stick with "fair play old chap"

Its true, at around the same age Hall was the writeoff thug being traded from St Kilda. Only thing he added to his game up there was discipline. Miller has the capability to do it, but his deficiancy is what Hall has in abundance, Hunger to hurt people that get in his way and lack of real enjoyment (Killer instinct if you will) at going toe to toe with someone.. Carroll actually enjoys it, Campbell Brown enjoys it, Hall enjoys it.. maybe something that you can't learn just what i bracketed.. an instinct?.. He only goes half at it, he gets done for charging, cops 2 weeks yet that player is up a minute later. That aint gunna scare people away from getting in your hole next time, you dont see him crunch a bloke then go after another bloke before they can even think to remonstrate with him. He shows agression, but its faked.. not the real fire. Few years ago, line in the sand match.. Vandaberg & Brown got angry they showed the competition the Hawks had that fire. (The Hawks were absoloutly drubbed they both copped massive suspensions, but the message was out there - we'll snipe you first we're sick of it and angry and not going to be intimidated anymore) Vandaberg was made the (role model) captain for the next generation of Hawks look at them now one of the hardest sides you'll see, this as much as their impressive young talent is the reason they are a flag chance, Clarkson loves it he wants his players "on the edge" and has publicly stated so. The culture is now ingrained at the club despite probably their 3 TOUGHEST players (Hodge, Lewis, Brown) suspended in rnd1, they SMASHED US in the toughness stakes, thats how soft we are not surprising looking at who our "leaders" are. And pretty sure Brown is in the leadership group down there and was AA last year. Now look at our leaders. give them a rating out of 10 if you'd want them next to you in a brawl vs equal or superior forces, if we are looking at say a Brown or a Hall as a benchmark of 10. Neitz - Long term injury, barring that hed probably in his final year rate around 8-9 Bruce - Threw a few slaps, before tappin you and tellin ya lets run buddy - 2 Robbo - Jumped into the group looking to do something that would be remembered, but lost his feet - no 2nd effort - 4 Miller - Show ponied he was tough and a big boy, but you always knew he wasnt going to hit you first and if he got on top in the fight hed just shake u a bit not hurt you - 5 JMAC - throws himself bravely in and fights with heart, but hes a small bugga - 5 Yze - Ran around the outside of the brawl getting in a few cheap kicks where he could - 2 Brock - would probably rate well, but for some reason having some fight and [censored] about you when the going gets tough, gets you kicked out of the leadership at MFC. red&blue&true's choice for MFC players to stand beside him in a brawl vs superior forces Carroll - He'd start the Brawl and finish it - 10. Brock - Dont [censored] touch me im BROCK MCLEAN - 7 Jones - Fire, Heart, Anger, Youth, Agression - YEAH! - 8 Rivers - Doesnt desert his mates, got a wiry left hook on him - 7 Whelan - how scarey is this bloke, hes tough as nails and would keep comin back even if he copped a few - 9 White - Big bodied bloke thats dealt with pain for years, if his mates cared enuff to give a [censored] hed get in there too. - 6 Moral of the story - make the brawlers the leaders, let the kids know that the blokes leading them are willing to fight for them... CULTURE. CHANGE IT. BRING BACK RODNEY GRINTER. /end rant

mo is on track - thats exactly what oppositions are doing to us right now. Coaching isnt just about developing players and a game plan that can win a flag, its also being on match day able to see that the opposition coaches are setting up based purely on his Plan A, which is always what we go with in the 1st quarter. By Quarter time our confidence is shot, the oppositions is up and its a waste. By all means continue to develop his plan if he beleives in it, but mix it up a bit so they arent just sitting off us. Instead of playing precision posession football in the first quarter next week, instruct the players to get the football and kick or handball to space.. with every player once its their time to go hard and contest. Go back to plan A in quarter 2, when the opposition has mixed it up a bit because you did first and it might be more more effective. We are so predictable, and with our dodgy skills dead set sitting ducks to a zone off and hurt them when they turn it over game plan, which is what every team has done to us so far.

Hes so small though. I rekon hed get hurt at AFL level.. needs time in the gym

Carroll plays with heart every single week. Doesnt drop his head like alot of his teammates, still sledges and backs himself even when hes gettin goals kicked on him. Hes my favourite player in red & blue at the moment.

Dont lol, or ill start my Carroll for Captain thread

Even worse! White is in his final years but the club should have the same approach with him they had with Stynes.. he basically developed White in his final years at the club.

HE KICKED 4 GOALS! Jones does spray it sometimes, but this bloke is pure heart and determination i love him Brocks still more valuable though, elite engine, tough, good foot skills, leadership qualities and a few years of development.. hes the most valuable player on our list (but isnt worth more then $300,000 per year) atm.. MY question is.. WHOS TAKING UP OUR CAP?! - surely we must be in breach for not paying enough this year...

:lol: