Whispering_Jack

Good question and, since I'm probably the only early riser in the group you mentioned, I'll take first go at answering it and I'm trying not being disrespectful to some of the players who were out there yesterday because they all had a crack and the comeback was absolutely sensational. But … There was one thing that was patently clear if you were watching the game and that was the value of AFL experience and of having the benefit of the intensity of training at AFL level. Williamstown had 12 AFL listed players including three 100 game AFL players in Licuria, Lonie and Holland as well as a number who have played a part in the Collingwood surge of 2007 – the likes of Cook, Cox, Iles, Stanley and Toovey have all been contributors to their AFL campaign this year. Davies who was terrific also deserves to be in that group. You would expect these guys to have an edge in terms of experience and skill over a team like Sandy which was virtually bereft of players with games at that level. I don't know much about their VFL contingent but skipper Brett Johnson alone has played 70 games with Hawthorn and Carlton. This was in stark contrast with the Sandy team - here's the list with AFL experience, if any, in brackets (broken up into AFL lsited and VFL listed):-- AFL Listed Simon Buckley (6), Colin Garland (2), Daniel Hughes ®, Shane Neaves ®, Heath Neville and Matthew Warnock (4) i.e. six players with a total of 12 AFL games experience. VFL Listed Andy Biddlecombe, Rod Crowe, Tom Dean, Rennie Gilchrist, Daniel Gribbin, Marc Johnston, Tomi Johnston, Chad Liddell (29), Stefan Martin, Guy Martyn, Sam Monaghan, Tom Paterakis, Ezra Poyas (9), Nick Sautner, Peter Summers and Shane Valenti. As it happens, two of the Zebras with the most AFL experience – David Gallagher (33) and Chris Lamb (21) were out injured with Gallagher (knee) unlikely to play again this year. This is a case of where the statistics don't lie and where the enormity of Sandringham's achievement in coming so close yesterday starts to sink in. There are ten players on the above list (including Neville) who played a fair bit of this season as Sandringham reserves players. Demon rookie Hughes was out for several weeks with a groin injury and this was his third game back in the seniors after restarting in the reserves. Gribbin was taking part in his first senior game, Dean, his second. Most of the others only got their promotions out of the reserves in the second half of the season as the Melbourne injury woes started to bite. I think the difference in intensity between their training regimes and that of an AFL player would be like cheese and chalk. So to answer your question about who to replace, you'd have to build up your AFL contingent with players like these who are due to play for Melbourne today but are eligible for the rest of the VFL finals (see http://demonland.nozzs.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7220) – 27. Chris Johnson 25.01.1986 188 87 29. Michael Newton 27.04.1987 193 87 34. Lynden Dunn 14.05.1987 192 90 35. Ryan Ferguson 29.09.1981 195 93 40. Mark Jamar 09.08.1983 198 103 43. Clint Bizzell 28.06.1976 188 85 48. Jace Bode ® 14.09.1987 183 80 73. Byron Pickett 11.08.1977 179 86 If you added four of those eight players to the list who played Willi yesterday, it would have been a five goal win to Sandy. On this basis I don't share Minka Beaver's pessimism about Sandy next week. In fact, there's every likelihood that they'll win well against the Roosters and set up what could well be the biggest game of the season in the Preliminary Final against the Cats in a fortnight's time. I would bring in as many of the above eight players as are fit to play and I'd drop Garland, Hughes and Neville from the MFC list and drop Dean, Gribbin and M. Johnston from the SFC listed players. The other two to go would be stiff but that's finals football! (as far as Zebraman's comment that Byron won't play, I'd be disappointed if he didn't but it would probably demonstrate his lack of professionalism and motivation and not only vindicate his decision to retire but also cast doubts on the wisdom of his decision to play on at all this year)

You're right. It's Jamar who will be available. BTW. I think the Zebras are still a good chance to win four in a row despite losing today. They had virtually no AFL experience behind them while Williamstown had a strong contingent and yet they managed to scrape in on the strength of one big quarter when they produced some amazing accuracy for goal. Againt a Sandringham with half a dozen extra players with AFL experience, they would have struggled.

And a few more. PJ & Pickett off the top of my head.

It's a marvellous achievement to be awarded life membership of the MFC - congratulations to Neale Daniher! Neale Daniher awarded Life Membership

Pretty sure it was at Sandy but I'll give it a try again today on my very fragile trannie. You're right about the 40 second delay on XX. That's a real bummer!

The bit about not believing in trade week doesn't carry much credibility with me unless your informant got the context wrong. There's an article by Jon Anderson in today's Herald Sun in which he rates how players who changed clubs have gone so far this year at their new clubs. Out of 15 players, only two - Graham Polak and Dean Solomon scored more than 50% (and neither are at clubs that will play in the finals). Kent Kingsley scored 1 out of 10 and Michael Gardiner a perfect zero. Not one of the players on the list is with a top 4 team this year and only three - Everitt, Medhurst and Bryan (PSD) have a chance of playing in the finals. If the context therefore is that trades alone aren't enough to make your team a power then he's right. I would also contend that high draft picks alone aren't enough either. I don't think however, that the MFC or Bailey for that matter, would pass over the trade period entirely if the opportunity to improve the team arose.

Didn't know both games were being broadcast on radio or that one of our own was involved with 3SER. My only problem with the station was that last time I tried to tune in on my el cheapo Dick Smith walkperson, all I could hear was this bloke talking in Greek. Do you have interpreters or was I on the wrong waveband?

THE PERFECT FLOWER ARRANGMENT I'm not so sure about the title to this article but it brings back some great memories of the day we beat the Bulldogs to make the finals for the first time in over two decades. Even after we'd won the game, we were no certainties and had to rely on hawthorn beating Geelong. I remember listening to that game on the radio in the crowd and throwing my young son over the fence when the siren went and we'd made it at last. Never did find out what happened to that boy!

The cover of the Herald Sun Weekend Sport section and a story inside celebrate the retiremetn of Brisbane's Chris Johnson as "The Last Lion". This is not to denigrate Chris Johnson's career in football but several hours after he walks off the Gabba tonight, there will be one remaining former Lion still going around at the MCG - Daniel Ward whose career started off at Fitzroy when he was on their supplementary list in the Lions' last year. That makes Wardy the real last Lion. Irrespective of whether he soldiers on in 2008, he deserves the title - his efforts for the club have been lionhearted and he has made the most of his abilities in his decade in football at the highest level.

Carlton is set to land the first big fish in off season player movements - BIG DEFECTION TO CARLTON SET TO ROCK THE AFL

Congratulations JCash (love your initials) and let's hope that we have a double celebration one month after her fist birthday and many, many mor to come.

The Zebras aren't on TV today but the next best thing after actually turning up to support the boys in person is to listen to the game on 3XX Radio 1611. The station is also looking out for callers - "3XX 1611 AM - VFL FOOTY CALLERS WANTED We have vacancies in the Saturday Call Team for the remainder of this season, and are looking to further develop our call teams for 2008. If you have an interest and call a game of footy for radio, AND are available on SATURDAYS, please let us know by calling 9532 1611 or email to [email protected]" I'd apply for the gig myself but I don't have a clue about VFL opposition players. However, if 3XX wants some real educated vox pop comments from the punters in the crowd then we're usually situated on or next to the gravel just under the pisspots (I mean that very respectfully BTW) on the social club stand balcony. The folks at 3XX do a good job and they even gave Demonland an on air plug last time they covered us so listen out and please report here as the game unfolds.

Buckley, Wheatley and Garland off to Sandy for tomorrow! MELBOURNE v CARLTON Sunday, 5.10pm AEST, the MCG MELBOURNE B: Nathan Carroll, Ryan Ferguson, Nathan Brown HB: Clint Bizzell, Brad Miller, Cameron Bruce C: Brad Green, James McDonald, Travis Johnstone HF: Byron Pickett, Russell Robertson, Lynden Dunn F: Matthew Bate, Michael Newton, Jace Bode FOLL: Jeff White, Brock McLean, Nathan Jones I/C: Chris Johnson, Daniel Ward, Paul Johnson, Mark Jamar EMG: Simon Buckley, Paul Wheatley, Colin Garland In: J.McDonald, M.Bate, C.Bizzell, Out: D.Neitz (knee), C.Sylvia (hip), S.Buckley CARLTON B: Michael Jamison, Setanta O’hAilpin, Paul Bower HB: Heath Scotland, Mark Austin, Andrew Walker C: Marc Murphy, Adam Bentick, Ryan Jackson HF: Kade Simpson, Josh Kennedy, Jarrad Waite F: Andrew Carrazzo, Lance Whitnall, Shaun Hampson FOLL: Cain Ackland, Ryan Houlihan, Bryce Gibbs I/C: Jordan Bannister, Eddie Betts, Shaun Grigg, Jordan Russell EMG: Luke Blackwell, Jason Saddington, Simon Wiggins In: Mark Austin, Ryan Houlihan Out: Brad Fisher (knee), Jason Saddington – omitted New: Mark Austin – Jeparit-Rainbow/Glenelg

Bailey comes direct from Port Adelaide which probably made more changes to its list at the end of 2006 than any other club. Interesting!

If he did, he would be assured of coming into 2008 with a 100% record .

The choir of hard knocks is belting out the club song. We've got the game in the bag on Sunday!

Will he be in the coaches box on Sunday if he gets the gig?

Aren't we presuming a little much here i.e. that we lose to Carlton and retain the picks. There are bookies out there who are willing to risk serious money against this eventuality.

I'll make it easy for you. In order for my lead to be halved, the people in equal second place will need to come up with results that would give us the wooden spoon!

I don't practice much in the criminal law field these days but my recollection of the law is that the person who obtained them doesn't even have to know for sure that the records were stolen. It would be sufficient if he/she reasonably suspected that they were stolen or unlawfully obtained. However, the authorities might decide it's all to hard a case to prove. Redleg might be able to add some light with his vast knowledge of crime and the criminal mind?

Andrew Demetriou said tanking doesn't happen but apparently (according to a poster on the Blues' supporter site - Tanking Carlton) in "the Herald Sun tomorrow, Kouta is quoted as saying that he believes we'd be better off losing against Melbourne." Kouta should be careful. He's still a registered AFL player and the powers that be could slap him with a please explain on the grounds that he's bringing the game into disrepute.

Exactly and this thread is locked until the Supreme Court injunction is lifted.

Please don't give the selectors any suggestions or ideas. They might take them up.

Some sensational tipping will be needed to dislodge our leader the great Whispering_Jack (me) who remains 4 in front of a trio of challengers. 1. (1) 108 Whispering_Jack 2. (2) 104 Clyde_Cabbie 2. (5) 104 demon_davey 2. (2) 104 slamevil 5. (2) 103 deanox 5. (7) 103 Demonland 7. (8) 102 DeMoNiC 8. (8) 101 canberrademon(herb) 9. (5) 100 deesthisyear 9. (10) 100 Scoop Junior 11. (11) 99 Alpha_33 11. (11) 99 Pinball_Wizard 13. (14) 98 snarler_0 14. (11) 97 great_gatsby 15. (17) 96 petejh2000 16. (15) 95 achirnside 17. (18) 94 frangas 17. (15) 94 Rivers Run Red 19. (18) 90 Go_Ds 20. (21) 88 Jackieboy_0 21. (20) 87 BigKev Demon 22. (22) 82 bl3281 23. (23) 81 dee'viator 24. (25) 78 No Cigar 25. (24) 77 TimDees 26. (26) 73 paliosiana 27. (27) 70 KrazyJay 28. (28) 68 rusty_corner 29. (29) 67 Goodvibes 30. (30) 66 CarnTheDees 31. (31) 59 Kieranbj 32. (32) 58 demon_fanatic 33. (33) 57 Dees_Fan16 34. (34) 55 Fingers Power 35. (35) 54 Dappadan 36. (36) 48 melon22 37. (37) 47 jaded24 38. (38) 39 rusty_kingswood

It's not even worth speculating on the team until we know who's avalable for Melbourne v Carlton. There might be very few Demons in the Sandy team at all unless we have a few coming back from injury.