Whispering_Jack

Definitely not. In fact, we dodged a bullet by not selecting him at # 18. I don't doubt Ball's leadership skills in a team that bristles with leadership and experience but Melbourne is currently in an entirely different stratosphere to Collingwood and Ball alone would make no difference. He would suffer similar problems and issues to the ones that face our on field leadership. But my problem with Ball at Melbourne starts with the issues surrounding him when he had his falling out with St. Kilda at the end of the 2009 season. Ball was already committed to the Magpies and didn't even give our football people the courtesy of a meeting when he returned from overseas before the draft. Leaving aside his medical problems at the time, the evidence is that had any club bar Collingwood taken him, they would have been lumbered with an onerous contract over a short term because of his demands (the Pies reportedly did a deal with him to spread the pay over time) and the relationship between player and club could have been toxic given his obvious desire not to be selected. In other words, except for one club and one club alone at the 2009 AFL National Draft, Ball was an untouchable. Naturally, this obvious piece of tampering with the draft was ignored by the AFL, perhaps because they weren't prepared to take on the strength of the Collingwood machine. Furthermore, we don't currently have a David Buttifant and we don't have the resources at home or the ability to send our players abroad on special three week training camps at altitude to get them up the way Collingwood has done with several of its players. Finally, I still prefer that we picked Luke Tapscott with #18. He wants to play for us, has cost us a suitcase less in $'s than Ball would have cost us and he will be at his peak well after Ball's gone.

Well if we really want to be serious about things we should be asking where does the money for the GWS exercise in football player payments inflation come from? Oh, that's right. The money comes from the AFL which, in effect, means that some of the clubs are contributing to their own suicide.

This accommodation is of course, a benefit to players and therefore included under the GWS salary cap? [sarcasm metre high]

It was not said last night at any time by anybody that the MFC was not without its problems but it was indicated clearly by more than one person that those problems will be dealt with and that they are not insurmountable. Nobody at the club is shirking away from the issues and if the promise to deal with them is honoured we will end up a much stronger club. Garry Lyon summed up the strength of the club by pointing to how Ron Barassi showed that he cared for his former teammates Noel McMahon as they came down the stairs into the Myer Mural Hall. He wanted to be sure these elder legends of the club could safely execute the set of stairs into the hall at the beginning of the function. Eleven club legends were introduced to the attendees. Meanwhile, a twelfth legend lay in hospital after undergoing a life determining operation. I wake up and read some of things that are posted on this forum and I have to wonder whether some people who would describe themselves as supporters of the club really care?

I've placed a bid for Aussie in the silent auction but I have no idea what that entails if it ends up the winning bid. Jack Watts is the most popular by far. Anyhow, they're collecting plenty and I hope it's appreciated by the players.

I'm going and would like to report from the function but, alas, my wife regards using the iPhone to send messages at dinner functions as rude and anti social. The report will have to wait but fear not, I'm sure if anything big happens, news will filter through.

Enough already. This thread is at an end.

Good on Cale Morton. He's managed to go against the flow and actually shown improvement and greater confidence during the crisis period. Looks a good thing to get a run in the Demons' midfield this week.

In the past 10 days I've heard and read so many conflicting versions of what's going on, many of which simply beggar belief, that I'm convinced of this one statement. The only way we have of knowing whether Paul Roos, Caro Wilson, Mike Sheahan or anyone else is right, is if the whole truth comes out and I doubt that it ever will. I have friends who support other clubs which were in disarray not that long ago and in which much the same general scenario was occurring. This time last year the Bombers were bleeding. They regrouped, appointed a new coach and assistants and they're now on the brink of making the finals, albeit with a list of players IMO inferior to that of Melbourne. I don't deny that there aren't problems within the club but I have a feeling that the current blow up is the blow up we had to have. In particular, I cringed at reports on the morning of the Geelong game that the club was on the brink of reappointing Dean Bailey for another year or two. IMO such a decision was not substantiated by the team's on field performances in 2011. We might have been headed towards a better win/loss record than 2010 but that was thanks only to a better draw and the introduction of GCS. We have actually gone backwards and, in that respect, the responsibility rests with the coach, the players and the football department. The bottom line is that we go into the future knowing that the structure of the club is being assessed, the football department is under scrutiny and that a new coach and most likely, a number of assistants and support staff are to be appointed. In football clubs when you have a failure of direction, a new broom is often a marvelous tonic. The Board also needs to examine the source of the conflicting information being leaked to the media. Is it coming from within the Board itself, from those employed by the club or by those from outside who have some inside knowledge? People for instance, who have axes to grind with the existing Board or current employees. I raise this not because there is a need to shoot messengers but to deal with those who have mischievously spread misinformation in order to further destabilise the club.

Just a reminder please that the Demonland code of conduct applies. I have deleted some of the speculative comment here which borders on defamation. Posters who offend here in future be warned because that sort of thing won't be tolerated.

I was also at the Casey v Box Hill game as well and thopugh I wasn't looking for any of the senior players, Jack Trengove was watching not far away from where I was. I agree that the topic's dumb and, as of now it's closed.

The easiest thing in the world at the moment is for people both within and without our club to sink in the slipper when it's down. It's true that mistakes have been made and things have to be done in time to get things right but the events of the past few weeks have presented the club with an opportunity to look at the structures on both the business and the football side of things and to make positive changes that will not only right things but to put us on par with the best of the best. Sheedy needs to look after his own backyard and doesn't need to bad mouth others. He left Essendon in poor shape and most Bomber fans will tell you that he lost it as a coach in his later years at the club. Those young blokes running for the $ will soon learn what it means to play under a dysfunctional coaching regime in a rugby league heartland. From our perspective, I'm happy to be moving on. Unlike many here who crave an experienced coach, I would prefer someone young, smart and innovative to take the helm. People like Sheeds and Choko are anachronisms. Their 2012-15 results will prove this.

Game's over now ... this discussion can proceed on POSTMATCH

The fascinating thing to see will be how the team lines up under a new and different coach. I'm sure Dean Bailey had a plan and was attempting to do something different and innovative, but it certainly didn't work against the stronger sides and the players generally didn't appear to me to be comfortable in these circumstances (exception Collingwood in both 2010 games). Normally, against strong sides like Carlton, they suffered under pressure from too many turnovers which sapped confidence in the players. With five weeks to go, I don't think it's possible for Viney to introduce an elaborate game plan so what we can expect is simply that each player is freed up to do what he does naturally and what he does best. In the long run, that sort of simplicity can't be sustained against the top sides in the competition that are well organised and well drilled but in the short term it might be enough if everything falls into place to get us a win against Carlton or West Coast and then who knows what happens from there. However, overall I'm not sure if it would be to our benefit to make the finals this year even if we won enough games to make them. We might well be better off finishing the season at Round 22 and starting to work on 2012 which is going to be a critical season for the football club.

I believe that if the AFL is going to investigate tanking then it should start, not with Melbourne which was probably the last club to be subjected to the allegation, but with the clubs that made it an art form in the first place. Since both David Smorgon and Eddie McGuire have come out so smugly and self-righteously in opposition of the AFL on tanking/list management, their clubs should come under the microscope first, Redleg has alluded above to the strange case of Matthew Croft who played his last game ever against North Melbourne in 2004 and booted five goals only to be dropped the following week against Essendon. The Bulldogs lost the last game and, as a result, won a priority pick. A Doggies fan told me at the time that there was no way Croft should have been dropped from the side for the last game unless the club was tanking. Another good player was also dropped for the final game but his name escapes me ATM. The following year it was Collingwood's turn. Hawthorn also brilliantly tanked to get a priority pick in 2005 and the Hawks did well in this era enabling them to pick up Franklin and Roughead. Then, Carlton made an artform out of it for three years in a row enabling them to not only get three number ones but putting them in poll position to get Chris Judd (the other factor was the third party deals which I understand are now banned for all clubs with the exception of GWS). Who could forget the Blues' stunning finish to 2007 when they went from 4-7 to 4-18 to scrape into a #1 priority pick position? The club that routinely ignored Brendan Fevola's long list of indiscretions suddenly suspended him for a week so he wasn't going to play the Blues' first game against Melbourne, then mysteriously ended his season prematurely a few weeks before the Kreuzer Cup game in Round 22. Imagine if the Blues had Fev at full forward instead of Lance Whitnall spraying shots from 20 metres out and straight in front that day. Had Melbourne lost that day, it could have used the extra draft pick that year to secure, say a Callan Ward and then be eligible the following year for picks 1 & 2 rather than 1 & 19. No offence to Sam Blease but I think I would have preferred Nic Naitanui in my side any time of the day. My point is why pick on a club like Melbourne which demonstrably didn't tank in 2007 and then investigate 2009 when all it did then was follow the lead of other clubs that employed list management and experimentation with player positions etc. when all chances of making the finals were gone following precedents set by other clubs and openly condoned by the AFL? In attacking Melbourne whilst it's down this week, McGuire, Kennett and Smorgon have demonstrated that they are nothing more than unprincipled hypocrites.

As I recall, neither Carl nor Robbie had a great influence on the result of the Essendon game. It was more a case of the players who were subdued against the Lions coming out and playing with renewed fire. Greg Wells, Glenn Elliott and Steve Smith were fantastic and the inclusion who really made the difference was Walters who came into the side and booted nine goals. It was easily his best game ever. The other thing about the game was the positional changes so that we went from having a completely impotent forward structure to one that, on the day, was a big strength. The two key forwards kicked 13 goals between them. Carl and Robbie played their roles but they didn't win the game for us.

It was inevitable that some players and their supporters would get their noses out of joint over team selection after last week's debacle. Some people still don't get the dimensions of that defeat or the fact that it was building for some time. Before anyone compares 186 with the three 15 goal thrashings that Demons have handed out this year they should understand this was doubly bad. If we think there aren't going to be repercussions at team selection as a result, then we're accepting that Melbourne really is a nanny club. Imagine losing by 31 goals and the sign "no change" going up after team selection? After last week, there were probably 18 candidates for the axe. The message from the dropping of those that went was that nobody is safe and the players are going to have to learn to be harder and tougher than they have been in the past. The players who were dropped find themselves out because of unsatisfactory performances. it's as simple as that.

Don't forget the Bulldogs in that list of tankers. They dropped a player who kicked five goals in the second last game of the season the year they tanked, yet I saw David Smorgon making sanctimonious comments about what Bailey said at his press conference. They are all a bunch of hypocrites including the AFL which is totally conflicted on a while range of issues ATM. The worst of these is the situation with Phil Davis who clearly has come to an agreement with GWS. It proves Jimmy's comments earlier in the year that the AFL's rules on the new franchises might cause young men to tell lies. I have a feeling there aren't going to be any mirrors in the Giants' club rooms to save the players from looking at their own faces. As to Garry, I think the comment he made about the club's status are pretty well right. After this week's events I would have cringed if he said we were a great club. Also, his response to Jeff Kennett's jibes was magnificent and the first indication from a Melbourne figure that we're not going to take this shit from other clubs any more. I hope the players take note and follow suit. I also liked Brayshaw's summation of the good things that have happened under Jimmy's watch, including the debt demolition, the move to AAMI Park and the club's much improved relationship with the MCC and the AFL. The snipers who have been chipping away at Jimmy and his board should be ashamed of themselves for their perfidious conduct. I think it's great that Garry's put his hand up to help a mate and to help his old club. I hope it works.

Every game should be a thank you game for Jim. Good luck champ.

You make some very good points but in the case of Tom Scully, my money is on the money as being the prime determinant of where he goes. The rest is background music.

This piece about 190 as distinct from 186 is also up on the Match Preview thread but since we feel that it's worthy of a topic on its own, we reproduce it as a separate thread:- WE'VE BEEN THIS WAY BEFORE by Whispering Jack Last week's 186 point defeat at Skilled Stadium was not as bad numerically as the club’s Round 17, 1979 loss at the hands of Fitzroy at Waverley. The margin in that game was 190 points but there are already arguments as to which was the worst performance. Demonland poster Redleg was the Team Manager in 1979 under captain coach Carl Ditterich who had taken over the reins at the previous year's wooden spooner from Dennis Jones. He was also at Geelong on Saturday to see what was to become Dean Bailey's last as coach of the Melbourne Football Club. Redleg believes that today's style of football with its zoning and presses is far less conducive to blowout results than it was back then. The current side is also far more talented than the one that took the field against the Lions on that day of records 32 years ago. He is gobsmacked that a side containing so many top draft picks and one that had the talent to be the core of a team that has won three times this year by around 15 goals could put in such a wretched performance. Back in 1979 the club brought big Carl back for a second stint after he first crossed from St. Kilda under the controversial 10 year rule (the competition's forerunner to free agency). This time he was to be the playing coach. The club also recruited flamboyant Collingwood star Phil Carman along with Magpie Wayne Gordon, the three Elliott brothers from St. Kilda, Glen, Robert and Bruce, Stewart Gull from South Melbourne and Cameron Clayton from the Tigers. Among the promising youngsters introduced that year were Gerard Healy, Peter Giles and Tasmanian Tony Martyn. Much was expected from these players but they hardly delivered in 1979 - the team rose one place to finish 11th in a 12 team competition. By Round 17 things had turned sour for the Demons who went into the game without Ditterich, Carman and the team's star player Robert Flower. The team for the game against the Lions was: Backs L Fowler S Smith B Denny Half backs C Clayton P Giles G Hutchison Centreline A Martyn G Elliott P Seaton Half forwards G Healy A Dullard R Elliott Forwards M Byrne R Biffin P Thorne Followers G Baker G Gaunt G Wells 19/20 J Durnan K Whitfort Redleg recalls the game was an unmitigated disaster. Apart from missing those key players, the team lost one or two early with injury, the Lions seized the initiative and their momentum grew as the game went on. Nothing went right for the Demons and, as Fitzroy got on top of them, the players' heads dropped. They were trying hard but basically nothing worked. Changes were made throughout the game but the Lions were on a roll. It was a humbling experience for Redleg as team manager. The team lacked talent. There were a few who were past it and others who only got games because others were injured. Some of the better players were not playing and it told on the team but Redleg insists that they never once stopped trying. The end result was Fitzroy 36.22.238 to Melbourne 6.12.48. Goals Gaunt 2 Biffin Durnan Healy Thorne Best Gaunt Fowler G Elliott Clayton Seaton Giles It was a hollow feeling for the team manager as he entered the rooms after the loss. Ditterich was livid. One or two committee were there and that was about it. There were no supporters to console the players; they had long ago gone home. "Carl told me in no uncertain terms that it was up to me to “(expletive) talk to them”, and he collected his gear and went home. Redleg sat with the players. The mood was glum and nothing was said for about 15 minutes. "A couple of them kicked their lockers. A few others showed some anger and then I just got up, told them to shower, then move on and put this behind them. I said I'd see them at training on Tuesday and that was it. No committee meetings, a bit of bad press and Carl was there at training as if nothing had happened." On the Tuesday, Carl made no reference to the previous weekend's debacle. He had moved on, the players had moved on and all thoughts were focussed on the game against Essendon the following week at the MCG. "Let's just beat those (expletive) pricks!" And beat them, they did. "There were a few changes, Carl and Robbie were back. 'Piggy' Walters was in at full forward. Steven Smith went to centre half forward and Peter Hamilton came in to full back. The vibe was positive, confidence was restored and the team won by 29 points with Piggy kicking nine goals, Smith and Wells, four each. The turnaround that day was amazing and Carl stayed at the end to address the players in the crowded rooms." Redleg remains an optimist and believes Melbourne's result last week was an aberration and that the playing group, as it did back in 1979, has an enormous challenge to regain credibility in the eyes of their fans and the football world. "I've seen the game's most massive turnaround in the space of a week - 219 points. I know it's possible because I've seen it before and I know what a tough taskmaster Todd Viney can be. Just like Carl, it's hard for anyone to look blokes like those in the eye if they don't put their heads down or go hard at the football. "Carlton is a talented team but they've been off the boil lately, Melbourne owes them one from last time and then there's also an outside finals chance. That sounds far-fetched after 186 but I know from experience that anything could happen on Saturday." The Demons are no strangers to dramatic turnarounds on the appointment of caretaker coaches. Greg Hutchison who played on a half back flank on that ill-fated day in 1979 won his first game against the Tigers and Mark Riley did likewise against the tanking Blues ten years later. Recently deposed Adelaide coach Neil Craig coached for the first time as caretaker against raging favourites and finals bound Melbourne after Gary Ayres was sacked in 2004. The Crows who had previously been unable to raise a whimper, won by 74 points. Redleg couldn't be drawn in to make a prediction but I was at the G in 1979 when the Demons turned things around and beat the Bombers and I'm expecting similar things again this week when we'll see history repeat itself. Melbourne by 33 points.

TELL ME NO STORIES by Whispering Jack What a week it's been for the Demons! The massive belting in the AFL that followed a thrashing to the VFL Scorpions in the early game at Geelong saw an unprecedented combined losing margin of in excess of 52 goals in the course of a handful of hours on the same day and in the same place. Then came the politics, the intrigue, the axing, the sound of the football world laughing at a club, the circling of the media vultures, the reinvention of history, the anger, the irony, the pathos, the hurt on the face of the president, the dignified departure of the coach, and the determination of the newly appointed caretaker. Eventually came the inevitable moment in this game of ours when one starts taking things one day at a time. What we don't know at this stage is how the players will react to the week's events but can anybody really see them shrivelling up and hiding in their shells irrespective of whether or not they are now happy with the wash-up from the week's events. Moreover, there is no breathing space for them. No struggling, lightweight, out-of-state weakling to beat up by a big margin so as to be able to gain bragging rights as a flat track bully. Carlton is certainly a quality opponent heading for a possible top four position in a little over a month's time but thanks to the Bailey sacking and the Blues' "big mouths" Armfield and Robinson, they could well be heading for a fall this week. I consider the above two issues are inextricably bound up together. Throughout the season, Melbourne's on field leadership has, from time to time, been called into question when the blowtorch has been applied. By "leadership", I refer to the coaching panel and the players making up the leadership group. Neither has been able to take ownership of all those aspects of modern team performance that matter when it counts in a tough, hard battle. The coaches have been unable to succesfully impart tactics and strategies and the leaders have lacked the qualities needed to overcome the hard press applied by stronger clubs. Against them, they played the "bruise-free" game. Bailey's short term replacement Todd Viney can't and won't work miracles overnight but his tough no nonsense approach and the knowledge he acquired on the coaching panels of Hawthorn, where he played a role in the Hawks' 2008 flag and at Adelaide, are expected to have an impact. As for the leadership group, they have been subjected to a week of soul searching. They have the ability and talent to play the game at a high level and this week's events should have given them all the motivation (as if true professionals need this). If they have any pride in themselves as professional footballers, they will be desperate to overcome the slurs of Armfield and Robinson but even more so, the utterly degrading insults heaped upon them in the public arena by the likes of Age reporter Caroline Wilson who stated earlier in the week that the senior players were so "mentally shattered from the week's off-field distractions" that they "barely fired a shot". In other words, they are so weak-minded that they allowed politics to totally distract them from doing their job on the field. Bruise free, unprofessional and disloyal to the supporters who live, breath and eat the game. A few days too many spent on an end of season football trip to China helps cause a 186 point smashing, just as it gives reason for a precious 20 year old to stow away on a boat to one of the most "unfootball friendly" parts of the country. Enough already. Tell me no stories. Tell me no lies. I don't believe all that's been said about the perceived background causes to the past week's events. There is of course some truth in the myriad tales spinning around this tragic scenario but many of them stem from elements involved with the club in the past and in the present, faceless ghouls and ghosts, gutless men who have their own agendas and will stab in the back the club they purport to support and follow. There are things at the club that need to be dealt with but for the players, its time to put an end to the stories and to produce where it matters. THE GAME Melbourne v Carlton at the MCG - Saturday 6 August, 2011 at 2.10pm HEAD TO HEAD Overall Carlton 114 wins 2 draws Melbourne 88 wins At MCG Carlton 46 wins Melbourne 49 wins Since 2000 Carlton 8 wins Melbourne 8 wins The Coaches Ratten 4 wins Bailey 0 wins MEDIA TV - Channel 10 (delayed telecast at 3:00 pm) Radio THE BETTING Carlton to win $1.13 Melbourne to win $6.00 THE LAST TIME THEY MET Carlton 13.15.93 defeated Melbourne 6.10.46 at the MCG, Round 10, 2011 The Demons were injury-riddled and at a low ebb. It started off a game of total defence as coach Bailey threw Jack Watts down back as a spare man in defence. It was ugly stuff and the less talented team made the most mistakes. The result was thereby beyond doubt once Melbourne's error count built up. TEAMS CARLTON Backs Nick Duigan Lachlan Henderson Jeremy Laidler Half backs Aaron Joseph Bret Thornton Zach Tuohy Centreline Heath Scotland Chris Judd Christopher Yarran Half forwards Jeffrey Garlett Bryce Gibbs Kade Simpson Forwards Eddie Betts Matthew Kreuzer Andrew Walker Followers Robert Warnock Marc Murphy Mitch Robinson Interchange Dennis Armfield David Ellard Brock McLean Marcus Davies Emergencies Ryan Houlihan Setanta O'hAilpin Kane Lucas In Aaron Joseph Out Ryan Houlihan MELBOURNE Backs James Strauss James Frawley Clint Bartram Half backs Colin Garland Jared Rivers Joel Macdonald Centreline Jack Trengove Jordie McKenzie Aaron Davey Half forwards Lynden Dunn Jack Watts Tom Scully Forwards Brad Green Ricky Petterd Jeremy Howe Followers Max Gawn Brent Moloney Nathan Jones Interchange Matthew Bate Stefan Martin Jordan Gysberts Luke Tapscott Emergencies Tom McDonald Daniel Nicholson Colin Sylvia In Clint Bartram Aaron Davey Max Gawn Joel Macdonald Tom Scully Out Mark Jamar (Foot) Liam Jurrah Addam Maric Daniel Nicholson Colin Sylvia WE'VE BEEN THIS WAY BEFORE by Whispering Jack Last week's 186 point defeat at Skilled Stadium was not as bad numerically as the club’s Round 17, 1979 loss at the hands of Fitzroy at Waverley. The margin in that game was 190 points but there are already arguments as to which was the worst performance. Demonland poster Redleg was the Team Manager in 1979 under captain coach Carl Ditterich who had taken over the reins at the previous year's wooden spooner from Dennis Jones. He was also at Geelong on Saturday to see what was to become Dean Bailey's last as coach of the Melbourne Football Club. Redleg believes that today's style of football with its zoning and presses is far less conducive to blowout results than it was back then. The current side is also far more talented than the one that took the field against the Lions on that day of records 32 years ago. He is gobsmacked that a side containing so many top draft picks and one that had the talent to be the core of a team that has won three times this year by around 15 goals could put in such a wretched performance. Back in 1979 the club brought big Carl back for a second stint after he first crossed from St. Kilda under the controversial 10 year rule (the competition's forerunner to free agency). This time he was to be the playing coach. The club also recruited flamboyant Collingwood star Phil Carman along with Magpie Wayne Gordon, the three Elliott brothers from St. Kilda, Glen, Robert and Bruce, Stewart Gull from South Melbourne and Cameron Clayton from the Tigers. Among the promising youngsters introduced that year were Gerard Healy, Peter Giles and Tasmanian Tony Martyn. Much was expected from these players but they hardly delivered in 1979 - the team rose one place to finish 11th in a 12 team competition. By Round 17 things had turned sour for the Demons who went into the game without Ditterich, Carman and the team's star player Robert Flower. The team for the game against the Lions was: Backs L Fowler S Smith B Denny Half backs C Clayton P Giles G Hutchison Centreline A Martyn G Elliott P Seaton Half forwards G Healy A Dullard R Elliott Forwards M Byrne R Biffin P Thorne Followers G Baker G Gaunt G Wells 19/20 J Durnan K Whitfort Redleg recalls the game was an unmitigated disaster. Apart from missing those key players, the team lost one or two early with injury, the Lions seized the initiative and their momentum grew as the game went on. Nothing went right for the Demons and, as Fitzroy got on top of them, the players' heads dropped. They were trying hard but basically nothing worked. Changes were made throughout the game but the Lions were on a roll. It was a humbling experience for Redleg as team manager. The team lacked talent. There were a few who were past it and others who only got games because others were injured. Some of the better players were not playing and it told on the team but Redleg insists that they never once stopped trying. The end result was Fitzroy 36.22.238 to Melbourne 6.12.48. Goals Gaunt 2 Biffin Durnan Healy Thorne Best Gaunt Fowler G Elliott Clayton Seaton Giles It was a hollow feeling for the team manager as he entered the rooms after the loss. Ditterich was livid. One or two committee were there and that was about it. There were no supporters to console the players; they had long ago gone home. "Carl told me in no uncertain terms that it was up to me to “(expletive) talk to them”, and he collected his gear and went home. Redleg sat with the players. The mood was glum and nothing was said for about 15 minutes. "A couple of them kicked their lockers. A few others showed some anger and then I just got up, told them to shower, then move on and put this behind them. I said I'd see them at training on Tuesday and that was it. No committee meetings, a bit of bad press and Carl was there at training as if nothing had happened." On the Tuesday, Carl made no reference to the previous weekend's debacle. He had moved on, the players had moved on and all thoughts were focussed on the game against Essendon the following week at the MCG. "Let's just beat those (expletive) pricks!" And beat them, they did. "There were a few changes, Carl and Robbie were back. 'Piggy' Walters was in at full forward. Steven Smith went to centre half forward and Peter Hamilton came in to full back. The vibe was positive, confidence was restored and the team won by 29 points with Piggy kicking nine goals, Smith and Wells, four each. The turnaround that day was amazing and Carl stayed at the end to address the players in the crowded rooms." Redleg remains an optimist and believes Melbourne's result last week was an aberration and that the playing group, as it did back in 1979, has an enormous challenge to regain credibility in the eyes of their fans and the football world. "I've seen the game's most massive turnaround in the space of a week - 219 points. I know it's possible because I've seen it before and I know what a tough taskmaster Todd Viney can be. Just like Carl, it's hard for anyone to look blokes like those in the eye if they don't put their heads down or go hard at the football. "Carlton is a talented team but they've been off the boil lately, Melbourne owes them one from last time and then there's also an outside finals chance. That sounds far-fetched after 186 but I know from experience that anything could happen on Saturday." The Demons are no strangers to dramatic turnarounds on the appointment of caretaker coaches. Greg Hutchison who played on a half back flank on that ill-fated day in 1979 won his first game against the Tigers and Mark Riley did likewise against the tanking Blues ten years later. Recently deposed Adelaide coach Neil Craig coached for the first time as caretaker against raging favourites and finals bound Melbourne after Gary Ayres was sacked in 2004. The Crows who had previously been unable to raise a whimper, won by 74 points. Redleg couldn't be drawn in to make a prediction but I was at the G in 1979 when the Demons turned things around and beat the Bombers and I'm expecting similar things again this week when we'll see history repeat itself. Melbourne by 33 points.

It will be forthcoming but not as part of the report from the game. Circumstances overtook us and it's now an issue of getting the time to sit down and go through that game. I better remember its aftermath the following week when we beat Essendon and Piggy Walters booted nine.

Emotional issues play their part but that's only part of the story. Carlton is a top four team and we are a rough chance of making the eight if we can get our act together. As Garry Lyon said on FC - "they need to compete and compete like animals."

I really wouldn't think thuggish tactics or the reading of the riot act are necessary in these circumstances. The way that events unfolded in the past week should be enough if they have pride in themselves. However, with a tough no nonsense bloke like Todd Viney at the helm I doubt we're going to see players shirking issues if they want to be in the side the following week. I will be more interested in how the team is set up. I expect it will be a lot different to the past and further, that the uncertainty on this will cause some issues at Carlton.