KozzyCan

Yeah I guess my problem with that is it's historically not a very reliable indicator of quality. For instance McQualter was the midfield coach at the Tigers for their dynasty and not many seem to rate him. A lot of coaches from dominant sides went on to become senior coaches and failed miserably while guys like Scott and Goodwin were assistants at mediocre teams and found success. Very hard to work out assistants. Ultimately they have to fall in line to the senior coach so they can only do so much as far as changing the game plan goes. If Bassett is coming in to coach the forwards it doesn't necessarily mean much will change unless Goodwin is finally ready to totally change our philosophy towards moving the ball.

Genuine question. How do people actually come up with their judgements of assistant coaches? Is it success of the clubs they've been at? How others in the industry have spoken about them. While I appreciate the change is needed I find it hard to get super excited about assistant coaches because it's hard to know if they are coming in to give new ideas or help better execute the status quo.

Only reason we were in that Carlton game was because Trac went into god mode

PETA have been doing this for decades. They exist to produce ragebait. Just ignore them.

Hardly Hunter's fault the coaches didn't rate Jordon.

You say this as we're getting ourselves ready to recruit Wade Derksen and Tom Campbell.

Parfitt seems like a good ANB replacement.

I watched the Roaming Brian that started all this. Hind really has no chill. Might as well have introduced the guy as his gangland mate.

Yep. Everyone knows it's Brashaw

This argument would be more convincing if those teams struggled when away from their home grounds. Lions the only one of them who have really struggled at the MCG but even they have overcome that in the last couple of years. Our own record at the MCG under Goodwin is pretty ordinary. It might even be <50%. We're more reliable away from home than at the MCG. A bit of an oddity in my time watching Melbourne.

Yep. Cats should play all their home games there imo.

Do you disagree with my assessment. Do you think having a slightly better finals winrate is more impressive than making prelims almost every year? Fair enough if you do but I stand by what I said. Think the Cats home ground advantage is a bit of a cop out. They won more games away from home than they did at Geelong this year, plus they play fewer home games at their actual home ground than any other side.

Not a stretch, no. But a bit of hindsight there too. I remember 2010, Ablett and Thompson leaving, most thought the Cats were on the slide and Collingwood were destined to be the next dynasty. Scott came into a good side but he didn't screw it up and has reinvented them twice over since.

I already explained how finals win percentage is a flawed stat, you haven't really countered that. Also compared the amount of finals qualifications for both coaches in my first post in the thread. But yes, clearly making finals is better than not making finals are you seriously contending that?

You seem to be taking issue with things others have said and applying them to a separate argument I am making. For the record I don't think Goodwin is a bad coach at all but I do think his style is very similar to his own former coach Neil Craig. He drills his players to play a very particular way and backs them in to get it done playing that style. It worked really well in 21 when we had all our players in ripping nick and form but it became less effective in the following years as other teams started to chase different trends and worked out how to strangle our forwardline and we struggled to stop that. In that way I find him quite inflexible which I think holds him back at times. He's not getting sacked any time soon so he has time on his side to get the team going again. For comparison I think Chris Scott got a bit inflexible inbetween 2017-21 which held the Cats back a bit. In 2022 they changed things up by going all out attack and reaped the rewards.

Well, I mean he's still won two flags so I wouldn't say that's a portrait of mediocrity anyway. Geelong have been thereabouts for nearly every year of his tenure, they always give themselves a chance to win.It's a pretty good position for a club to know that every year they are a very good chance of going deep into finals. As I said, flags are the pinnacle but I think we can go a bit deeper than that when we measure coaches. Agree it's difficult to determine where the influence of a coach begins and ends but I tend to believe they are the most important figure within a football department so if we can't make a judgement on them based on results then who can we judge?

Chopping and changing? What are you talking about. I've been pretty consistent. I have a lot of posts because people like you are responding to me so I'm having a conversation. Maybe don't engage if you're not interested in the topic. Never said half of what you've suggested. You're making massive inferences. I suggest you re-read or don't bother engaging.

I don't think it's a particularly outlandish view. Maybe for Demonland it is.

It's a gross over-simplification that basically implies the only thing that matters are flags. Flags are the pinnacle but no one is going to buy an argument that Mark Neeld is as good of a coach as Ross Lyon, Nathan Buckley or Chris Fagan just because none of them have won a flag. How so? My argument is that Scott is a demonstrably better coach than Goodwin. I've yet to see anyone make a convincing argument otherwise. Bit needy if you require any criticism of Goodwin to be prefaced with a song and dance about how I rated his coaching in '21.

I'm not sure I understand what point you are trying to make. You initially argued that Geelong have a distinct advantage in their recruitment that is essentially a caveat on Scott's record. Now you're saying players don't really care who they play for and just want to be on a list. I think that second argument is pretty absurd and only really true for players who are on the scrapheap anyway. Players tend to have preferences and good players have options because many clubs want those players to play for them.

Simple-minded view.

Swings and roundabouts. As you say, different athletes want different things. Being able to maximise your advantages and minimise your disadvantages is part of the game. Ten years ago no one wanted to play for Brisbane, they had players walking out left right and centre. These days they attract people from other states to play for them. Brisbane is seen as a great place for an athlete to play, with players able to enjoy warm weather all year round and a reprieve from the footy-mad bubble over the Barassi Line. When Gold Coast eventually come good, the same will be said for them. "What an advantage they have, players can jump into the warm surf every day!" More than anything Athletes like to win, and being a consistently top performing side would be the most attractive proposition Geelong have to offer over cheap plots of land and the surf coast.

I'm sorry but this is just a terrible way to assess coaches for a number of reasons and I'll tell you why. 1. Your finals winrate isn't affected by missing finals completely so coaches who have fewer finals appearances are more likely to have a better winrate. 2. Losing a QF and winning a Semi then losing a PF gives you a [censored] winrate worse than a coach who wins an EF but loses the Semi, despite the PF being a greater achievement. 3. Unless you win the flag you are guaranteed to lose at least one final so the winrates are very difficult to raise, especially if you're making top 4 where you could lose two finals but still make a prelim as I already mentioned. Since Goodwin has been coach Scott has coached in 7 finals series including 6 prelims, 2 Grand finals and 1 flag. Goodwin has had 4 finals series, 2 prelims, 1 GF, 1 Flag and 2 straight sets. Finals winrate means nothing compared to actual results.

Maybe Goodwin should have hung it up after the flag, then his finals win rate would be untouchable!

If Goodwin makes finals every year for the next 8 years he will absolutely have my support. That's the record he would need to match in your example.