JTR

Demonland in a nutshell

As an aside, it was great to see our AFLW girls pairing off and helping out with the auskick games at half time on the weekend. Kids seemed to love it. Harris was in the game right in front of us and seemed to be moving ok.

Are you the philosopher guy who a few weeks back posted a similar thesis about how Chandler is at the core of our various issues? Or do we now have a second person who has a particularly 'curious' take on young Kade?

Yes, I don't get it either. WC supporters main issue seems to be his pace, but it doesn't seem that bad at all, especially the first few steps off the mark when he actually looks pretty quick. What they were saying in Perf when Culley was delisted "If a club can fit in a midfielder who is slower than your average ruckman then go for it" "Culley won't make it as a midfielder. He's too slow and doesn't read the play very well" "Would've given him another year myself, after the ACL. Probably could find a spot as a defensive mid but doesn't have the breakaway pace to be the main man" "Tough, great work ethic and can play forward but has no pace" "I remember watching him and thinking he made Will Setterfield look speedy" "Just too slow I’m afraid. Looks a gun at training but when intensity and speed picks up he gets found out" And if anyone feels like a longer read, here is his entire "Welcome to WC in mid season 2022, through to end of 2024 when he was delisted

Quality human, who given a bit more time and experience, will also grow into the quality player that some of us can already see he will be. (he's just turned 20yo and played a whopping 18 games FFS) I'll look forward to digging up this thread in a couple of years time 🙂

It's all well and good to say we should have brought in xxxx players to replace those we have lost, but what is rarely addressed is how we would have actually done that, and with what? We don't have a production line of father-sons like the Filth, Brisbane and now Carlton. We don't have unlimited parcels of land or hobby farms to offer players down on the Bellarine. We don't have the constant stream of quality academy players like Sydney or Gold Coast. Our only option has been to throw the farm at someone like Houston and keep playing for the now, or take our picks to the draft and hope that keeps us going in the future. The problem in my view isn't the players we have brought in, but the simultaneous decline of guys like Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Sparrow, Petty and Lever who we were trying to build the side around.

It's disappointing how quickly some of our supporters forget that we made the top 4 in 2022 and 2023 and were never outside the top 8 during that entire time. That's no mean feat, particularly in the seasons immediately following a premiership when you become the hunted and everyone is zeroing in on ways to try and beat you. 2024 there were plenty of reasons outside of coaching that contributed to where we ended up. No Brayshaw, losing Petracca mid-season, Oliver playing injured, parting ways with Harmes/Jordan before we knew we'd lost Brayshaw and a bunch of kids doing their best to plug the gaps in the meantime. 2024/2025 off season was a shambles and this season hasn't been good at all, but there are still "reasons", the most significant of which (besides poor form of some key senior players at the same time as we are trying to transition to a new game style), was the huge loss of ANB. It can't be overstated how massive the losses of ANB and Brayshaw have been, both culturally and with their on-field leadership. You can't replace guys like that during the trade and draft period. Anyway, I'm sure I'll get howled down by the regular crew, but I personally think Goodwin had done more than enough to deserve the opportunity to see out his tenure and finish what had been started.

I don't think it can be overstated how much we miss ANB

Because most people don't know what they are talking about (other than looking at VFL stat sheets) and just want change for the sake of change. And if they don't get the change they ask for, then obviously they know better than our football department and ~gOoDwIn Is pLaYiNg fAvOuRiTeS~ Remember last season, when selection threads were full of outrage about not giving Fullarton a go, simply because his VFL stats were good and his surname wasn't Petty? How'd that work out? Same thing now.

Haven't you sad sacks got enough threads to stain with your pearls of wisdom? Thought you'd have a go at this one too?

That video is well over 12 months old. It is not something he has filmed and then posted since our loss to Carlton last week. Hope that helps.

Seriously mate, who the [censored] do you think you are? I'm not going to come on here to defend Goodwin because its not posisble. I will defend the "happy clappers" though, cause I'm sick to death of hearing from people like you that I/we are part of the problem, simply because I/we choose not to be a tiresome [censored] sad sacks when things don't go our way. If I don't want to wallow in negativity, I won't, so with all due respect, shove your self righteous BS up your [censored].

I'm not talking about people like you William, so no disrespect intended.

LOL! As if any [censored] who throw a little boycott tantrum would have turned up anyway. You can pretend you would have, but let's be real. We know.

Saw this question in Zitas twitter thread, which I found interesting. How can the charge be "upheld" when the case was sent directly to the Tribunal and not graded by the MRO?

They've won it already have they? 🤣 I think we've seen - even in our game - how good they actually are when teams are prepared and able to take it up to them. Time will tell, but I'd be very surprised if they won the flag.

Collingwood fielded the oldest team in AFL/VFL history just a couple of months ago, so not a great example of a sustainable list that will keep carrying them forward. Watch them drop off a cliff - and become another West Coast - when Pendlebury (37), Howe (35), Sidebottom (34), Cox (34), Elliott (32), Mitchell (32), Mihocek (32), Crisp (31), Hoskin-Elliott (31), Membrey (31), Cameron (30), McStay (30), Moore (29) and De Goey (29) are all gone. As for trading/recruiting, some of their ins have been good, but they gave up a lot for them at the expense of getting good kids from the draft. They are also players that for various reasons we probably wouldn't have wanted/needed. Houston (28yo) they got for 2 players (Noble & Richards) and a future 1st Schultz (27) was pick 34 and a future 1st Perryman (26) was a free agent, but got GWS 1st round compensation (pick 19), so he got a big contract McStay (30) was another free agent, but on a 5 year contract as a 28yo. Lions got 2nd round compensation. Bobby Hill (25) was a good pick up (future 2nd), but he asked to be traded to the Collingwood, having previously asked to be traded to Essendon the year prior and failing to get there. Not much we could have done about that. Oleg Markov (29) via SSP and Billy Frampton (28) for a future 3rd... lol, I can imagine the melts here if we had got either of them. They are made to look good in a team that is playing well. Same goes for Lipinski (27) who they got for pick 43. Ned Long (22) was an excellent pick up in mid season draft. We only had one pick in that draft (due to Brayshaw retirement) and used it to get Kentfield Long could have been handy, but would we have needed another big bodied and mostly inside mid, when everyone was screaming for us to find a tall forward? Tim Membrey (31) another good pickup as a delisted free agent, but where would he have fit in for us when when already have JVR, Jefferson and Turner as our talls who we were probably expecting a lot more from? Collingwood have been trading/recruiting to keep themselves in the window and this has worked for them, cause the majority of their senior core are still playing well. Unlike us.

I'd argue that the drop off of some out senior core players that we are trying to build the side around is a much greater contributing factor than those we have brought in. But that's another conversation. And again, if we had brought in these best 22 players you speak of, for who and the expense of what? If we traded away our draft picks we wouldn't have the young talent. If we throw massive contracts at free agents, we probably wouldn't have been able to retain Kossie, or any of our younger stars when they are due an upgrade. And then in a few years, when our core talent is close to retirement, the Houstons or whoever we brought in instead of young players are also 30+ and we have no JVR/Windsor/Langford/Lindsay's ... then what? We'd become another West Coast

Salary cap is a valid reason when we already have several players on big coin, and lots of youngsters coming through who will need to be paid more. Also have to consider available list spots and trying to put together a sustainable list that will carry us forward for years to come. Since 2021 our focus has clearly been on taking our top picks to the draft. Senior 2 Jacob van Rooyen - pick 19 4 Judd McVee - rookie draft 6 Caleb Windsor - pick 7 12 Koltyn Tholstrup - pick 13 14 Jack Billings - trade (3rd round pick) 19 Harvey Langford - pick 6 20 Xavier Lindsay - pick 11 21 Matthew Jefferson - pick 15 22 Blake Howes - pick 39 23 Shane McAdam - trade (2nd round pick) 26 Jed Adams - pick 38 29 Tom Campbell - free agent 30 Harry Sharp - trade (3rd round pick and swap of steak knives) 33 Tom Fullarton - trade (3rd round pick) 40 Taj Woewodin - father son Rookie 28 Will Verrall 38 Oliver Sestan 39 Ricky Mentha 41 Kynan Brown 42 Aidan Johnson 43 Jack Henderson 44 Luker Kentfield 45 Andy Moniz-Wakefield 46 Jai Culley Obviously a few misses there, but all of the top selections are ok. Would you rather we didn't have some/all of JVR/Windsor/Langford/Lindsay and instead throw everything at 28yo Houston types?

Unpalatable then, or unpalatable now? I don't recall many being too upset at the time. Very easy to say now.

List changes since 2021 Out: Senior 2 Nathan Jones 4 James Harmes 6 Luke Jackson 10 Angus Brayshaw 12 Toby Bedford 14 Michael Hibberd 19 Fraser Rosman 20 Adam Tomlinson 22 Aaron vandenBerg 26 Sam Weideman 29 Jayden Hunt 30 Alex Neal-Bullen 33 Oskar Baker 39 Neville Jetta 41 Jay Lockhart 44 **** ***** 46 Austin Bradtke 50 Ben Brown Rookie 23 James Jordon 27 Aaron Nietschke 28 Majak Daw 34 Deakyn Smith 38 Mitch Brown 40 Kye Declase In: Senior 2 Jacob van Rooyen 4 Judd McVee 6 Caleb Windsor 12 Koltyn Tholstrup 14 Jack Billings 19 Harvey Langford 20 Xavier Lindsay 21 Matthew Jefferson 22 Blake Howes 23 Shane McAdam 26 Jed Adams 29 Tom Campbell 30 Harry Sharp 33 Tom Fullarton 40 Taj Woewodin Rookie 28 Will Verrall 38 Oliver Sestan 39 Ricky Mentha 41 Kynan Brown 42 Aidan Johnson 43 Jack Henderson 44 Luker Kentfield 45 Andy Moniz-Wakefield 46 Jai Culley Definitely a few outs that set us back and somes misses with the ins, but it's not like we have been sitting on our hands doing nothing. We are rebuilding on the fly, which to me is a much more palatable route to take than completely bottoming out like West Coast, North or Richmond Edit - these are players that were on our list in 2021 compared to now. Haven't included guys like Grundy who have come and gone during that time.

Just curious, cause I've noticed you've been conspicuously on Sharps case for most of the season. What's your knock on him exactly, and why do you feel (as a relatively young 22yo) that he can't develop like some of the other young players on the list? I didn't know anything about him when we got him, other than hearing he was an extremely good runner and that he was an emergency in last years GF. From what I saw in the pre season games and have seen so far this season, he doesn't seem the worst? Disposal not the best and a bit fumbly, but can run hard and is not bad around the goals. Reminds me a bit of early ANB.

Demonland: "the season is over - play the kids!" Also Demonland:

Anything actually come from the club or Fritsch himself, is this just another media thought bubble claiming to be news?

🤔 Again, are you having a laugh? My view - which I am also entitled to - is that you are wrong and this "analysis" is at best, extremely premature. Is that ok with you sir, or are you only interested in the opinions of those who agree with you?