sylvinator

Pagan shoud not be our coach. his coaching performance for 5.5 yrs at carlton is a disgrace. they are still the worst team in the competition just as they were 6 years ago. how pathetic to have so many years to develop and have ome bottom 4 every year. The success he had at the kangas was due to the fact he had about 4 absolute champions to work with (one including carey, someone you could base a team around)...it's one thing to be able to coach a great team, but the demons do not have a champion. we, like carlton, need a coach who can work with a team without a champion list. Pagan cannot do this!

i think pace in the midfield is quite important, but i dont see that as our problem. when you lose, if you're not particularly quick it looks bad...but when we win the pace doesnt really seem like it is a factor. our midfield of the future includes: johnstone, mclean, sylvia, moloney, jones, bartram, buckley and green. we definitely need to add in atleast an extra 2 quick, skilled midfielders to that in the upcoming drafts, but that is a very solid basis to a midfield. our first pick in this years draft (pick 2-4) should be on the best midfielder available. if you add a gun midfielder to that group we look good.

it's a depressing, but very accurate observation. we have not one truely elite player. we might be the only team in the afl that dont have 1 player in the top 40 players in the afl. it's just such a bummer than Johnstone, green and bruce havent pushed on to become champions that they promised they could be. we also only have 1 key position player who can really impose himself and his strong body onto a game and he's our 32yrold captain whos close to retirement. we seriously just need to get some bloody high draft picks and do a hawthorn. hawthorn now have roughead,franklin,thorp and dowler as massive bodies with huge potential and all were top 7 picks. how jealous am i....

i know this sounds weak but i honestly would prefer us to get a priority pick this year (i.e. lose basically all the rest of our remaining games) rather than win 5 and let carlton get pick 1,3 and 18. how great would it be to trade one of bruce or green for pick 8-14 and have pick 2,8,18,20. that would set us up majorly for years to come.

while sheedy is def not a failed coach, i still wouldnt want him as the next MFC coach. he's been coaching for 28 years and is past it. Pagan is a failed carlton coach. in 6 years he has 28 wins! that is pathetic. fitzroy is their last 5 yrs in the afl won 27 games. pagan did brilliantly at the kangas but keep in mind he had carey (one of the best players of all time) at his disposal. at melbourne he wont have a champion he can base his team around. he is not our man. Mark Williams for coach

The new coach will be chosen within the next few weeks... I personally dont think we should choose an X (failed) afl coach like Pagan, sheedy or conolley. That would be a weak, easy decision and wouldnt take our club forward. I think we should take a bit of a risk. I see all the assistant coaches as good potential cadidates, especially Mckenna and Bond. But this too will be quite a safe option. I also dont think Voss should be considered a candidate until he has spend a year as an assistent coach. I see Mark Williams (sandrigham) as a bit of a risk, but a deserving candidate. He has led Sandy to 3 premierships in the last 3 years. He already has an affiliation with Melbourne and is a part time assistent coach. He understands our club and the improvements we need to make. He coached Victoria against W.A this year and we extremely successful. Reports were he performed outstandingly. What has transformed his as a genuine candidate for me has been this years performances for Sandy. Melbourne has been ruined by injuries and recently we have only 9 MFC players in the team (including 2-3 rookies). He has continued to win at vfl level and has performed above expectations. Despite having 5-6 VFL players with less than 10 games experience in the team he has still managed to keep sandy as the best vfl team. His coaching performance this year in spite of lack of personelle available has been amazing. He has created a warm, successful winning culture at the club and i dont see why he couldnt translate this to the AFL. Could Williams be the man to lead MFC next year? Would he be better (despite being a bigger risk) than a failed AFL coach or a highly rated assistant coach? Thoughts?

If Jamar is going to have ne trade value at all he must be playing first ruck ... Neaves will be promoted at year's end so don't worry.

i agree kruiser would solve a number of problems. he is more than capable being a number 1 ruck, but also oculd become a key forward. he is an ideal hight (199cm), not too short for ruckman but still mobile enough for key position. unfortunately richmond lack severly in the ruck department. pattison is a good youngster and simmonds, but apart from that they have nothing. they will 100% be picking him up if they get pick 1. so too carlton...it's annoying but true

you're right, if we wouldv had no injuries and better form this year we would probably be ahead of collingwood and kangas (definitely not hawthorn, im very jealous of their list and they're much better than us). with the decline of the interstate clubs we might have even pushed for top 4... BUT, we would not have come close to winning a premiership. this season has proven that our list just simply isnt good enough at the moment to win a premiership. anyone who believes our current list can win a premiership is delusional. if we came 5th we might have thought our current list is fine, and make the minimum 4 changes to the list like they did last year. (what a huge mistake that was!). now we know where we have to improve, which areas we lack, and have put game time into a youngsters. next year we can clear out some dead wood and old players and rebuild with our current crop of youngsters plus pick 2,10,17,19 (pick 10 from trading green or bruce). we could not afford to keep coming 5th-8th. this is the wake up call we need

i see our leadership group in 2-3 years time being Mclean (captain) Rivers (Vice Captain0 Leadership group: Jones, Bate and Bell These 5 players all have lots of leadership ability. Sylvia will also be a core player in 3 years time but i dont think he's a leader unfortunately. Our current leadership group is abbismal. It's been so obvious this year that the players that should be our leaders (bruce, green Johnstone) simply aren't. once again, i dont think our defiency in leadership would have been so obvious and profound had we made the finals this year. developing our new young crop of leaders must be a focus going forward for next year with Neitz close to retirement

Garland and Buckley should be kept in the team. both will be on our list next season and they must develop by players in the seniors. it will hold them in good stead for next year. this year is shot, the focus should be developing the likes of buckley and garland! one change for me... out: davey In: Bruce (if 100% fit) Green, Bell and Neitz can have one more weeks break. no need to rush them back at all. Moloney should play 2 more game for sandy working up to 80% game time and then to come back and play the last 5 games of the year to get him cherry ripe for the preseason and next year. holland should stay in the ressies so the Miller can have a real opportunity to prove himself as a big bodied defender. We will never know if he could have made it if he doesnt get a proper shot. Holland will be ok, he's a good depth player and will remain on our list as depth next year. Miller must get his go as a defender. its only for our beneifit to see if he's capable of making it at afl level. Same goes with CJ

the last 3 years we have come 5th-8th. we have been provided great entertainment by our team and many times during these 3 years were we in the top 4 teams in the afl. however, were we honestly close to a premiership with our list? maybe close, but in reality we were not true contenders. we won one final in those 3 years... unfortunately this year our list looks strangely out of wack: our 2 most important players, white and neitz (no1 ruckman and FF) have maximum 2 years left of footy. we have 9 players above 30, and while only 4 are in our best 22, we must still replace all those players within the next 2 years. our spine for much of thise year has had robbo and bizzel at CHB and CHF. where have we gone since 2004 when we identified CHF and CHB as our weaknesses. breese, molan, rogers, smith and miller were drafted and did not come up. (millers last hope to make it as an afl player is as a big bodied defender playing 10 games a year against the monster forwards). Green bruce and Johnstone were the 3 players who 4 years ago were touted as going to be the core to our premiership team. they have come up short. all 3 are very good players, but are not leaders and while they all had potential to be stars, they are not. The only real positive is the fact we have recruited magnificently in the last 4 years. Mclean, Sylvia and Bate are 3 youngsters i see as being potential A-graders. Pettard, Jones, Bell, Rivers, Davey,Moloney, PJ, Frawley, Newton, Dunn will all become (or already are) very good players. they might not all become star A-graders, but all will become quality starting 18 players. Garland, Buckley and even CJ could be added to that list. I see Bate becoming a great CHF, Newton is a ligitimate option as successor to Neitz and Frawley and Rivers both will man the defensive posts for years to come. unfortunately there is a big hole in recruiting past these 4 years. Bruce, Green, Jonstone Wheatley, Carrol and Robbo and the only players in our starting 18 that are between the age of 23-30 yrs old. thats only 6 players. these players should be the core leaders of our team...They are not. my point is... had we had no injuries and abit of luck this year we once again would have come 5th-8th. with this year being so even people would have probably touted us as premiership contenders during certain parts of the year. however this would only have hidden the weaknesses in our list which are now becoming so glaring. This year has given us an opportunity to see that in reality we do not have good depth and that our supposed stars are not really stars at all. we have also been able to get 10-12 games into nearly all our great youngsters which is vital for their development for next year. had we made finals this year then Frawley, Newton, Dunn, Buckley and Garland would have had no opportunities. With games under their belts they will be able to make a real impact next year. at years end we should get rid of 5 of the 9 players >30 yrs old. we should trade one of Green or Bruce. both have high market value. we should use a top10 pick to continue the recruiting of the last 4 years. we should also get rid of the dead wood we have on our list. (neville, Ferguson, Jamar). this way, with some good recruiting we will be proper premiership contenders in 2-3 years with Mclean, Bate, Jones, Sylvia and Rivers as the core players. we may look back on this year as they year we had to have. a reality check that led to us shaping our list in the best way possible.

i think westcoasts demise proves that any team struggles without there best players on the park. injuries can be a legitimate excuse

miller's game after half time was actually very good. his defensive pressure was good, his strength and decision making above average. i saw a good defenders game in the second half

of the assistent coaches (i.e. chris bond, guy mckenna, mark harvey...) i think its a much of a muchness between them... any one of those could fill the job well... the other choice is to go for a proven coach like sheedy, pagan, conolley if they become available. this is the safest option. the last option is to go for an untried commodity like voss. if we dont get him this season then someone else will snap him up for the top job. my preference would be Guy McKenna. he has coached his own team (claremont) and been assistent at WCE and collingwood who have both had success. he has the smarts and will make good decisions. i would love voss but i dont think its worth the risk considering he has no experience at how an afl club works behind the scenes

i agree jaded. the reason bruce and green could be traded is bc they are not core important players and are 27 years old. they could be very useful for a team going for a premiership next year, but dont necessarily fit our plans. we can build a team of formidable youngsters growing together so that theyll be great in 2-3 years. our drafting last 4 years has been terrific so if we continue like that for 2-3 more years of drafting with high picks we will grow a premiership contending side. i rekon one of the reasons we havnt come through and been premiership contenders this year and last year is bc of our [censored] house drafting from 2000-2002 when we wasted picks on kpp who never made it. If we get some high draft picks and use them wisely, we have the youngsters to push for a flag together in the next 2-3 years

u mean 1,17 and 19 or 2,18,and 20 (just a smal thing dont mind me)

i noticed a few time macavaney called players different names.... he called newton 'bruce' about 3 times. he such a [censored]. and white is having a very good season. his rucking is competative and his around the ground stuff is still first class. 1 bad quater (1st quater) against laycock and people call for his head...i gues thats expected on demonland it happens every week. he is in the top 10 most important players on our list. we're in strife when he retires

people who dont reckon bruce will fetch a first rounder have no idea about the trade period. consistently players of that calibre are top 10 picks atleast. \P.Johnson (underperforming 10 gamer from WCE) was pick 20...u think we cant get higher than wat PJ went for? some people just dont think before they post

we will get a top 2 pick dont worry about that. now that riley is coach we will be playing raw youngsters, trying players in certain positions, and putting injured players into early surgery... i doubt we will more than 2 more games this season.

i think trading woewoden was very clever in retrospect. we got a 1st rounder (daniel bell) for him. woewoden is in the wafl and bell looks the goods. i think the main point to consider when trading a quality player is whether the draft pick u get will be worth what ur losing. its risky bc theres no guerentee a draft pick will even play a single game, wihle bruce u know ul get quality every game. its a risk, nething other than a top10 pick is not worth the risk

I'm definitely up for trading green or bruce (not TJ he is such a great midfielder. he has amazing skills and is too important to trade). bruce and green both still have very high market value. in 2 years time they wont have as much bc they are 27 years old now. if we could get a top 10 pick plus a 3rd rounder or a player like ryan murphey from freo for either would be fantastic. i think both players would be great for teams that are going for the premiership next year. We are not.

If we win less than 5 games this year WE DO GET A PRIORITY PICK. it is just after the first round instead of before the first round. it is still a massive advantage. imagine having pick 2,18 and 20. if we win 4 games. but we get only pick 2 and 19 if we win 5 games.

We now know we're going to have a new coach in 2008, one who will not have the loyalty Daniher had to the older players and who will be able to make unbiased decisions on their playing futures. So...which on the players around 30 years old will be kept on, and which will be forced to retire? I assume up to 3 players of this group will be forced to retire at years end but it would be silly to suggest 8 should be delisted, because this is completely unrealistic. 3 to 4 at most will be gone. 1) Nathan Bown (>30)- a faithful foot soldier. i see him as the number 1 candidate on the forced to retire. he has been solid depth and given great service, but it is time that we start to blood our young half back flankers. Bell, Pettard, Buckley and C.Johnson should be given preference. he is no longer needed as depth. 2) Byron Pickett (>30)- extremely talented and intimidating player. However daniher gave him a lifeline and he threw in back in his face. he too overweight, undisciplined, troubled and no longer has the competative edge. Should definitely be forced retired at years end. i hope he gets 1 more match so that he can finish on 200 games. 3) Clint Bizzel (>30)- still a good player. reads the play better than most and a strong mark. However he is past it and should now be replaced by younger versions of himself. should be forced to retire at years end. Frawley, Rivers, Wheatley, Pettard and Garland should all be given preference. his time is up after giving great service to the MFC 4) Ben Holland (>30)- still a useful depth player who has found his niche playing against the guerilla FFs. he must be kept on the list next season as depth for one final year. we do not have anyone capable of replacing him and taking the monster forwards (gherig, rocca, Richo,J.Brown, Ottens, B.Hall and Q.Lynch). he should only play 7-8 games next year for specific roles. i see Miller as the only player on the list who could be groomed to take over this role. i strongly think miller should be developed to play this position. 5) Daniel Ward (30)- still a fast, hard-nut half back flanker. must be kept as depth in case of injuries. he is still decent player and his pace is a big asset when he attacks the opposition and runs the lines. should not play many matches next year (hopefully fewer injuries) but is still afl standard despite his poor kicking skills. im a fan of his uncompromising attack at the football and his pace. Re: queens birthday match against Leon Davis was terrific. 6) Adem Yze (31)- who knows if he still has it due to injury plagued season. however his first half of the season was actually quite good. he is amazingly talented and is still in our best 22 when fully fit. should be put on a 1 year contract and see how he goes. fit and firing he adds alot to our team. 7) Jeff White (>30)- still in the first 5 players picked in the team every week. has had an outstanding season imo. still getting the ball 20 times a game and using the ball flawlessly. he rucking has also been ok. we must draft 2 ruckman in the draft (1 with a high draft pick and 1 with a speculative rookie selection) so that we are covered post retirement. PJ and neaves are decent but a guy like Kruiser could cover his loss hopefully in 2-3 seasons time. 8) David Neitz (>30)- a wonderful captain. should be kept as captain next season (bc mclean is not quite ready) and then hand the captaincy to mclean at the end of season 2008. mclean will then be 22-23 and much more mature and ready. i think he needs one more season before taking over. Neitz should then play as many seasons as he can under mcleans cpataincy playing our of the goal sqaure re: Alistair Lynch. could play 2-3 more seasons. his replacement must be foud soon. i see newton as a definite keeper but must look for fullforwards in the draft. again Kruiser could be the answer via draft. 9) James McDonald (>30)- what a player. i love him. plays his heart out for MFC every week. should play as long as he wants. While it does seem we have a whole lot of players above 30, people must consider that only 3 of these players are in our best 18 and mcdonald could be replaced without too much difficulty being a midfielder. The rest are depth at best. 3-4 will be gone at years end and the other 2-3 will be depth but probably gone at the end of season 2008. Who do people think should be kept or retired at years end?

honestly how the [censored] did we lose that game! 17 points up with 5 minutes to play. rediculous!!! bloody hell! im caught abit in two minds...on one hand we'v lost 4 games this year by under a goal. we'v been ravanged by injuries. its clearly just not been our season. the loss doesnt really make a difference, and it could mean we get a priority pick which would be extremely useful at years end... on the other hand we need to develop a winning culture. we need respect and the supporters need something to hang our hats on to give us hope. its just so frustrating. COBRING ON KRUISER