Demon3

Yep, i understand all that and as i said as an example Jack Higgins was available for us. Its all speculative isnt it totally get that, my main point is that we paid to much for him. 2 First round picks was way overs, but i have also said, i hope he proves me wrong.

You obviously have not read what i replied to. It was about Hawthorn being a strong club that were able to trade stars, my point was they didn't trade 25 year old's, they traded 30 plus year olds.

Haha, you know you have really gotten to someone when they go down the "Mate" or the "Pal" track. C ya Moonie, have a wonderful evening and hope we can chat again soon.

Im not sure to be honest Sue, if only games went for a half.

Lol, I am up for balanced discussion, happy to admit when someone makes a good point, i like the banter and love discussing the club with like minded people, and i dont mind a bit of an argument, sure, im not going to roll over and be talked down to, ill stick up for myself. I mean yeah i post a lot, but its all relative when you compare it to 12, 931 posts. Im basically the opposite of you.

God you and your know it all mates are hard work, especially when you get challenged on something. I am doing the same, i looked at the stats and said Vineys Disp Eff is better, you say its only 0.7% better so its not really relevant, i say thats fair, you can skew stas to suit any argument, you say stats arent a big deal then real of numbers and percentages to back up your argument. LOL. Its so draining not being able to have balanced conversations which i tried to do. Also im not your mate.

exactly, and making them sound like they are not a big deal because they dont suit your opinion.

no worries, i remember you pulling me up on my opinions recently, so i guess i just thought thats what we do here.

Stats can be skewed to suit either side of the argument, you said some overrate his importance i disagree, but thats ok, we are allowed to.

That wasnt the point at all but whatever.

Angus can be a great Kick when he takes the time to care and look, that hasn't happened all year. Over their career, Jacks Disposal Eff is better and he turns it over less than Angus. But you rate it better so thats ok.

Jack Viney is 25. Hawthorn didnt trade Sam Mitchell when he was 25.

11 tackles in his first final, more than anyone on the ground and spent less time on the ground than anyone and 27 disposals 17 contested both of them game high and still spent less than anyone on the ground for Melbourne in the second final, But yeah sure lets trade out a captain and a player who is 10 times more the competitor than 90% of our list. I dont overrate his importance, i just rate his importance.

Trading Brayshaw is curious, but the suggestions that Viney is even more tradeable is just laughable. Jack is a competitor, one of only a few that we have on the list, he like most of our players have had an ordinary year, look at his finals last year, they were amazing, he showed true grit and heart off the back of a very limited preparation. He will be fine and so will Gus.

What if though, it got us the Suns Priority Pick and we traded Brayshaw to the Suns, got pick 2 and then we had Pick 3? would it change anything?

It is pathetic and i wouldnt compare it with richmond. I wouldnt compare anything to Richmond. We should have 80 plus tackles, because we are not good enough to only have 39 tackles. the tigers are good enough to have only 45 and they dint need to tackle us to get the ball of us, they just wait till we got it and they knew we would turn it over so why tackle.

Fair comments LD-VC

Like chatting to his opponent about wine while the ball is up the other end? I agree he is playing a good role at the moment and that is really admirable, but the fact is that its hard to win when leaders dont lead and our leaders, our experienced players are having very little influence on the game.

Pruess is a disaster, 1 mark, 6 disposals and 3 of them turnovers. Its not working, out he goes. Put Lever away fro the rest of the Year, what good is it having him play, plus he is so overrated its not funny, sorry i should say that, because he does have elite qualities, he is a great Spolier and his pointing to players in the backline is first class.O-Mac is not good at his job. Pruess Lever O-Mac - OUT May Hore Lockhart - IN

Another sub standard performance by our Leaders (Max the exception) Jones , Viney, Lewis, Hibbered and Melksham combined for a grand total of 0 tackles, i ko wit wasnt that sort of game and we tried another approach, but still, the ball is in dispute a lot of the time, they should be able to lay a tackle. lets talk turnovers and who they come from: Lever -6 two first round picks for the back line general - not good enough / Hibbo - 6 a shadow of the player he was / Salem - 5 has gone backwards in last 4 weeks with his main assett skill. / Jones - 7 The captain from HB. seriously. / O Mac 4 - bloke like him cant afford any / Brayshaw - 3 from 11 crap disposals / C Wagner 8 - from 11 disposals What hope have we got when the majority of our backline turn it over so many times.

Hope so, i really do.

whoa.. calm down mate. I cant see it yet, i just dont think he is going to make it but hope im wrong, you obviously can, good luck to you, i sincerely hope you are right and i am wrong.

Thats the thing.. he will be a solid contributor, but for 2 first round picks, i want more than solid. Anyway, you are probs sick of it and me so all good, lets hope he turns out to be a gun.

Fair comment and Mindset may have been the wrong word to be honest, i acknowledge that, its my perception of him that he is not an urgent, ultra competitive type, from the outside looking in, he may do so, but id argue that he is more on the laconic side. I hope we stick with him for the next 4 weeks though, confidence is always one of the best tonics for form.

I cant see Petty being the answer, he does not have the competitive mindset. Not sure if anyone listened to Mike Lombardi this morning on radio, it was excellent. He said, you can teach skill and game plans, but you cant instill competitiveness. Think Jack Watts as the perfect example. Petty strikes me as being in that mould. Though, at this stage of the year, we have no other option to keep with him, it wont hurt.