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Do you get that view in his 4th game or his 6th game?

Please explain why what I said was absolute garbage. And tell me how our senior players are better than WCE's senior players.

That may be (and is). But we cannot equate Davey, Green, et al. to WCE senior players. They are far better.

Their senior players are up and firing. Where is our Cox? Or our Glass, Priddis, Selwood, Lynch, Kerr, Embley, LeCras, and Kennedy? Nearly half the side. Experienced, seasoned pros, playing consistent footy. We have Jamar, Moloney, Jones, and Sylvia up and about of our senior core, and one of them is injured. WCE 2010 was an aberration, they are way ahead of us.

Please look at the context. I wasn't talking about leadership. I was alluding to the fact that our senior core of players are not near the top echelon of 'senior cores' in the AFL. Re-read it and you will understand. Bailey did what he had to do - and nearly effed it up against Richmond. I don't see how I had a defeatist attitude when the reason why I applauded the 'experimentation' was to get the players necessary to win a flag.

You have said it yourself - our senior players are not what we thought they were. You will see consistent spirit (and the wins that will follow) when the kids grow up and take over the house. And it could be by next year. Hell, it could be next week.

A massive error? What does a coach leave behind? A list. Bailey, if he is moved on, would have left this left in very good shape for his successor. Save for the grey matter between the ears of everyone over 25...

Yes, everything is comparable to what Melbourne does... Nothing ever happens that cannot be chain-referenced back to this club...

Yeah, you must. But it is sad at the moment...

Give Bailey Cox, Kerr, Embley, Priddis, and a ready made CHF in Kennedy then...

They 'chose' not to win it?! What does that mean? Our senior players are anything but and our talent are still in their nappies. They gave a decent effort which is a step forward, and considering we were never going to win the flag this year - I simply want a series of positive steps forward toward our flag push. Your excitable declaration that we need to 'start again' is utter BS.

How will this one win do that? Fucken hell we are easily pleased. Who gives a flying about beating these teams in 2011 - we can't win the flag. We should demand the kind of effort we had against St Kilda in all games but continue to play those that will offer something in our flag push.

(groan) Yeah, that's exactly what I am doing... [censored] hell.

If, as this poster mistakenly believes, Bailey said he could get us into the finals he probably would have kept Godfrey and Ward as seasoned pros. I just can't let this BS stay unchallenged - Knights got the Essendon job because he had a rosier picture of the list than Hardwick. Bailey said we were in a sorry state and set about doing what he did.

And Fergus Watts was never on our list. Must be confusing him with Ferguson is someone on wikipedia.

Yes, I realise that the club did its own house-keeping before Bailye was appointed. It was unfair of me to tacitly imply Bailey moved on the retirees. But White, Robertson, et al. will tell all and sundry that they more moved out of the club at some speed by Bailey...

And to add to dandeeman's post, Bruce was signed in March of 2007 to a very good deal for the years 2008-10 - before Bailey was a twinkling in the previous boards eye.

Why are you pushing this [censored]? Your info is wrong, your source is wrong, the fairies in your head is wrong, or wherever you got this nonsense about what Bailey said. He said they needed to rebuild and he went about it. Johnstone, Pickett, Ferguson, Bizzell, Godfrey, Ward, and Nathan Brown never played under Bailey. That kind of mallet to 6 mainstays of the side is hardly in line with your ridiculous meme, is it?

Welcome. I don't know how you would have come to that conclusion from my posts if you really are a "long time listener." Every club has the fans you mention. I am not one, I knew this particular rebuild would take more than "the next year." And again, for the old fogies in the back of the theatre, "the last 47 years of failure mean [censored]-all to the ineptitude of our leaders and our predicament today." What [censored]. Our on-field leaders are letting us down, lazy supporters who don't want to actually think about the problems scream that "everything at the club is rotten," because it's easier than critiquing the problems in any way. And you can [censored] off if you want to, but I am invested in the 'Melbourne Project' and we have made great strides in the past 3 years and we will continue to have problems to solve. I am not going to burn down the house because the old finishings are looking tired and awful. The only rubbish is this post and the effort of our 'senior' players. You have got to stop looking sideways at what other clubs are doing in that particular moment. The Tigers are developing, so are we, but both clubs will not play finals in 2011 nor be a chance of a flag in 2011. So who gives a frack? I want to win a flag and I won't let Green and Davey's poor leadership get in the way, and I certainly won't let the unthinking masses get in the way either.

In two years time we won't be 'led' by Green, Davey, Rivers, Moloney, Jamar, and Sylvia. But by Grimes, Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, McKenzie, Jones, Petterd, Frawley, Garland, Watts, and Jurrah. Competitors with more talent that rarely put their head down and show a defeatist attitude like Green, Davey, and Rivers. I mean, did anyone here really think that with Moloney, Green, Davey, Jamar, Sylvia, and Rivers as our established core group, that we would challenge with them doing the bulk of the work? Most of those players will need to be playing predominantly periphery roles if we are to be a top 4 team. Thank god Bailey tanked. I thought the 'house' was just in need of major renovations when Daniher left... Turns out the house was an illusion, there was nothing there but a mailbox being held up by an injured Beamer.

Some lazy fans, just think "we lost, therefore we were mediocre." The result was mediocre but the performance was a marked improvement, especially when the kids had little help from Green, Davey, et al. And spelling and grammar will become important when you grow up so you may as well practice it here...

What rubbish you have given in this poor excuse for a thread... And the story you are mis-recollecting is at Essendon when Hardwick told them that they need to rebuild and Knights said they could have another shot with Lloyd, Lucas, et al. Bailey apparently said what he has done - taken a mallet to an awful, ageing list, now the leftovers are the embarrassment. If the senior players don't improve, the team will continue to falter, and Bailey will go... but I will remember his 4 years fondly because he would have set us up for what the next decade will bring.

Echo that. Our kids were good. Gysberts is a B grade player right now, at 19. He will be good... And Watts is showing more and more. Our kids are getting there. It's the Daniher leftovers that are not doing much...

lol What rubbish... We are having our issues, but to compare us to Rd 1 2008 is just dumb. I never get to carried away when someone uses hyperbole on here but it is stupid to say that we are where we were when Daniher left.

His body language was worse than the suibb! Him and Green are awful when the game is on the line with their attitude. Everyone knows my view on the 'leadership group' as it sits. But frack me...