rpfc

Hopefully, Woey gets re-signed soon so we can drop him…

1 minute ago, Jaded No More said:

I think that's fair, but I also don't think we would trade him for peanuts unless we think he really is not up to it.

Or we need the list spot

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

No thanks. He can't kick. We have enough of those.

Besides, Geelong get what Geelong want. Wonder if Bailey wants a hobby farm. 

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

more likely a hydroponic unit.

I don’t think coca plants grow out Geelong way…

1 minute ago, A F said:

I think we can win it from 4th. Particularly, if we play Collingwood in the QF.

Such an even season…

2 hours ago, binman said:

Based on tbe bookies odds for the next two games and my estimate of the likely odds in the remaining games, the odds of us winning our remaining 6 home and away games is a tick over 9-1.

Those are appropriate odds; all winnable but sport is spasmodic.

13 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Goody and Richo said it.

But they never said he would be a key forward, only that they wanted more from him when in the forward line. Totally reasonable.

TBH, I would imagine a club FD would want more from every player, in every position .

They said this week, the comment in the post from Katrina was that ‘it was always expected BG would need VFL time’ and it just isn’t the case.

The fact remains that BG had famous issues with being effective forward and here we are asking for something we might not get.

3 hours ago, binman said:

Right.

As funny as the loading jokes are, I wasn't making a case a factor in the crows form is fatgue - though I believe that to be the case (i watched the whole gws game and it was crystal clear halfway thru the third they were out of gas - and they basically stopped to a walk in the last. They had a 17 point lead at 3 quarter time and were always going to get reeled in - they lost by 14, meaning a 5 goal turnaround, and could only manage 1 scoring shot, a point, to the giants' seven scoring shots).

I was making the point that an article that discusses their drop in form that doesn't at least ask the question if fatgue from loading might be a factor is doing crows fans a disservice. Particularly when Burgess is their fitness guy. I mean c'mon.

You have at least had the opportunity to consider if fatigue from loading is a factor because of the discussion on here.  And you have decided it isnt. Which is your prerogative. 

But surely if you were a crows fans you'd like to get a sense of the possible causes of their drop off.

The closest that article comes to positing any theories of the cause is 'the declining form of Rankine and the undisciplined actions of Rachele' and noting Tex didn't get a touch in the second half of the gws game.

Otherwise it is just a typical shopping list of stats that point to the symptoms not the cause.

Maybe you are right, and the issue is simply that the Crows are not that good, their talent is young or very old and that fluctuates.

Maybe, despite the fact you could see with your eyes they were gassed and the clear parallels to the impact of loading on the dees under Burgess and his acolyte,Selwyn Griffith (eg accuracy drop, scoring drop, losing games when fav etc etc) you are right and fatigue from loading is not a factor.

But surely it is worth including the possibility it might be so readers can decide for themselves and perhaps do what you have done and reject the idea loading is a factor. Or perhaps think, gee that's interesting  - I'll give that some thought 

Otherwise it is not even in the conversation.

 

 

They were probably gassed in addition to not being very good. Their bodies are probably not as seasoned as older teams are but I haven’t done enough analysis of where they are at in terms of the 22 and years in the system.

And of course I understand the aerobic programs that teams run throughout the year - I just don’t think in a comparative league that it has the implications on performance like you do. All teams lift their training intensity around the bye weeks or longer breaks. Even when Ainslie up here was ever present in the NEAFL - we used to schedule aerobic blocks in bye weeks to try to get up to where Sydney and Brisbane were. So it is real, but maybe the fatigue of a long season on young legs is determinative? Depends on the team.

Look at the Dees atm - we are working through forward connection issues that have led to dropping a back up ruck, brining in our number 1 tall, bringing in Melksham, and encouraging run and dare that is sputtering. I know you see that differently to me in terms of a diagnosis of our issues but it probably just be a matter of degrees.

7 hours ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

Okay, I'm going to go full rant mode here. I'm sick to death of the media discourse around Brodie Grundy at the moment, and the so called sports journos' tendency to stick the knife in, having him being traded, it hasn't worked, etc etc.

 

It was always Melbourne's plan to have Brodie as a ruck/forward combination, and it was always the club's intention to have him play some VFL games to strengthen his forward craft. The only thing that delayed that from happening sooner was Gawn getting injured and waiting for him to get back to full strength. This has now happened, hence Grundy was named for the 2s. To say the Gawn/Grundy combination isn't working and it's all Grundy's fault is, pardon my French, complete [censored]. As a ruck combination, they outrucked Cox/Cameron combination, they outrucked the Jackson/Darcy combination in Fremantle. In fact they have consistently outrucked the opposition throughout the season. If there was ANY reason for lack of efficiency, it could be put more down to the fact Gawn's knee injury at the start of the season prevented him from being his best. Not Grundy.

 

In fact for the weeks Gawn was out injured, Grundy was invaluable, he proved his worth in my books. Grundy isn't going anywhere.

 

Media hacks, lay off. We know how much these so called "professionals" hate Melbourne.  They've moved on from Oliver onto a new target.  And it's not fair on Grundy.

 

Rant over.

I don’t remember the FD saying he would need VFL games to hone his forward craft.

And I don’t think they are saying it’s Grundy’s fault - they are laying blame at the FD which is a fair critique at this stage. 

It’s all immaterial - I want to win finals - if that is with BG playing FF and rucking 20 mins - great! 

If it isn’t, I don’t give a damn.

1 hour ago, binman said:

Did you watch the gws crows game?

A little bit when GWS swamped them. I just don’t think the Crows are that good. Their talent is young or very old and that fluctuates in my view. That’s mainly what i attribute the sloppiness too - not a good team yet.

19 minutes ago, binman said:

"Suddenly, the Crows are not the inside 50 marking team that they were in the first half of the year, they are losing more 1v1 contests and have lost their accurate touch in front of goal"

Mmm, i wonder what might explain their drop off?

Struggling with 'connection issues', scoring dropping off, losing one on ones, their  elite accuracy strangely gone? Not sure why, but that all sounds very familiar.  

 

In all seriousness, this article makes my point about why it is so ridiculous the footy media don't factor in fatigue into their analysis of where teams are at, PARTICULARLY when trying to explain a seemingly unexpected, difficult to understand, sudden drop off in form and scoring power. 

If the author of that article had at least included the possibility fatigue from loading might be a contributing factor in their form drop off, at least Crows fans (and anyone else for that matter) could choose to consider and/or reject that idea.

And for pete's sake, their head of fitness is Burgess and the dees had exactly the same drop off when he was our fitness guy, so it hardly takes much of leap of journalistic logic to at least speculate about fatigue and loading. 

I thought this 8-10 week loading program was about getting top4 teams to peak in finals - why would Burgo do that for the Crows?

Sorry, B, but I literally laughed. Someone needs to replace don Quixote’s windmills for loading programs… 

I’m not immediately against the idea.

The impact on the NBA has been profound. More teams interested in the season for longer and less teams tanking their last couple of weeks of games.

I am not sure about how we would do it - 7 v 10 is not the equation in the NBA. 7th gets two chances to play finals, not one; it’s 7v8 and 9v10 then the loser of the first meets the winner of the second to see who gets the last spot in the finals.

If we are about to have 19 teams then I can see this being needed to keep teams interested longer.

8 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

The Age

Melbourne d Brisbane Lions

It is still nigh on impossible to get a read on the 2021 premiers, after they bookended Friday night’s win with a flurry of goals but struggled in between. The Demons are also the last team to beat Collingwood, and ran the Power very close at Adelaide Oval, so their best form stacks up. Coach Simon Goodwin insists they have time to bed down their best 23. Clayton Oliver and Bayley Fritsch remain out with respective injuries, while million-dollar ruckman Brodie Grundy faces a race against time to prove he can be valuable not just as a ruckman but also as a forward. The bigger problem for Grundy might be how good Max Gawn was against the Lions without having to spend so much time in attack. Gawn is a six-time All-Australian ruckman for a reason, and there is a distinct possibility that Grundy might watch Melbourne’s finals campaign from the stands.

 

Click bait journalists again. Forecasting Grundy will be out of the team now and forever more.   

Or the finals.

How about we just own the decision to drop him - we just don’t know what will happen from here this season?

15 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Does this satisfy you? Sorry about the background. 

One of the smoothest operators in the draft pool, Judd McVee is the kind of player you want rebounding the ball out of defence. He handles the ball cleanly and is efficient in his use by foot, showcasing class to manoeuvre out of tight spots and keep cool in a crisis. With greater consistency and enhanced midfield craft, McVee has the tools to become a tidy player at the top level.

The 18-year-old was impressive with plenty of midfield time during his state's Under 16 National Championships campaign in 2019, but has since found a more permanent home across half-back where his pure class comes to the fore. He averaged 14.8 disposals across 12 Colts games this season and even cracked the Reserves grade, before also representing WA in the improvised Under 19 carnival

Pretty dark analysis there, mate… 

4 hours ago, layzie said:

You were actually the first person I thought of when I wrote it 😜

The first person?!!

The first…

2024 won’t be 2023.

And as Max ages, how he goes forward, not the other way around, will determine the partnership and his time left in the game.

5 hours ago, Webber said:

Wow! So much happens when you go on hols* for 4 weeks (to central France, 1 bar 3G, which offers precisely NO contact with the world, in mostly a great way)! Just watched the replay (arrived home at 3/4 time, almost didn’t look at final score before nigh nighs), and what an enormous last quarter. Maxy at his best, Jack Viney too, and Trac obviously. What struck me too though was the massive quarter of Trent Rivers. Jakey we all know has the talent, and when he’s on, he’s a game changer. 

*WTF with Clarry’s M-T junction tear?!!!! and woe is me about Fritta’s foot fracture. 
 

Webber, I appreciate that you need time away but F C S. The best player we have ever had was yelling at the high performance bloke his hammy was that bad. 

And you were living it up in rural France without suitable wifi? 

WE NEEDED YOU. 

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Certainly not a 5 min job to perfect. And the whole 'package' of how a good forward works is not a quick read.....but it's  not War and Peace , nor Britannica ( apols to younger gens...lol )..   There's a distinct logic about where to be...  you dont learn it rote...you either do or don't get it as much is the application of instictive understanding of opportunistic instances.. Yes a very convoluted way of saying.. position, space and timing.

Some will never get it no matter how much teaching and training....  others...it's inherent...   most....somewhere in between. 

Footy (sport ) is funny in a fashion....some who struggle with common tasks can play a ball like on a string.   Theres such a thing as Footy Smarts ( nouse etc ) . Some can read the flight... some know where to be or how to get there...and have never been 'taught' 

I have no doubt Grundy gets it. His focus will now change.  I'm happy to back him in. He's a skilled talented and very smart player.

He’s a smart bloke. 

To some degree - there are cheat sheet pointers BUT and it is a big BUT - you need consistent roles to structure your game around (ie BBB).

I often say to flanks and pockets, which are effectively the same role nowadays with the running up the ground to come back at the 50, that you have to tether yourself to the predicted targets; where is the CHF? Can I lead into and out of his space and draw a man and can I then get to his feet or beyond? With Brodie, I would honestly say to him, you are the next target, you are deeper than BBB and you can set his movement as your weathervane - when he leads, you move up - if he is ignored you are the longer target, and when BBB is honoured - stop, prop, and move back and then do a V lead or an ankle breaker lead and use the space you just created.

Those cues can provide a bit of a clift notes for him to be effective in a deeper role. 

I would not bother with him at CHF, he would only gum up the works up there - he can’t be the fulcrum ever I don’t think.

This is not about him taking contested marks and kicking the odd goal - this is about him leading to the right spots, exploiting spaces, being in the right places to contest and bring the ball down - that is the forward craft we have missed recently. It is selfless moving and leading, and mids and rucks struggle because they want to be where the ball either is or will be rather than move to where the ball may not go just to open up the ground for teammates.

Its not easy to learn and it takes discipline to be consistent.

7 minutes ago, A F said:

Here's the thing though, @rpfc, Grundy will be in the 22 for finals, so I'm beginning to think it'll be at the expense of JVR.

Same. Unless BBB just can’t get into a trot.

@deanox AF touches on a bit of why we haven’t tried the two towers on each arc idea - it would work in specific situations but at stoppages it creates an issue around where the outnumber is. If Grundy is at HB and Gawn at the stoppage - where is Grundy’s direct opponent? At the footy? Ahead of Grundy? Creating loose player behind the footy can be powerful against dumb teams - but dangerous against good teams.

And @A F - it has been fantastic to see Sparrow and Gus do what they have done, and really helpful if CO13 gets targeted in the finals.

I am really keen to see what these three natural forwards can do in September if we move it quick - Petracca, Fritsch, and Pickett. And not to belabour the point - I would trust BBB to lead his player out of their way more than Grundy and JVR.

1 minute ago, Boots and all said:

Noting that BBB actually leapt for a mark on Friday night. A leap that raised eyebrows in my household and were immediately followed by some fairly broad smiles. Mark not taken, but meh, good signs.

That first ten minutes was so heartening. If he can keep getting back up each week - he doesn’t come out of the side IMV.

Interesting tidbit from TMac on 3AW was the group have been going through vision of their entries into the forward line so amongst the myriad of issues we have been dealing with we can confirm that connection forward was one of them.

12 minutes ago, old55 said:

 

I think we're not in an ideal situation, we need Brodie for a proper chop out for Max so he can deliver excellence, but it's true that as @rpfc says, forward craft is an art and Brodie (or Max) is not going to learn what BBB knows about it in 3 weeks.

The fact that BBB is past his prime and TMac is injured, closes the difference between them and Brodie forward.

It's a compromise either way, but I think we're better with a firing Maxy at the pointy end. Having Brodie will also help JVR because he won't have to ruck and therefore can be fresher and add more forward.

It’s a good point about BBB’s body just bringing his capabilities down in the pack there. I guess I am hoping for our best possible forward line and that is with a healthier Brown getting to better spots than I can see JVR or BG getting to.

As an aside, TMac said on 3AW that his timetable is the last two rounds of the AFL season.

3 hours ago, old55 said:

Yes great in theory, but the big problem is that Max himself has declared that the Gawndy project has to work. He said exactly that in his post match with Abbie Holmes.  He was a key driver of Brodie's acquisition.

Max can't shoulder primary ruck duties week in - week out any more. The reason he was able to dominate against Brisbane is because Brodie has been giving him relief over the season.

There's 9 or 10 more games to go, Max needs Brodie to play.  I think the FD probably think that the Max, BBB and Brodie combination too easily exposed at ground level defensively, especially with Melky in Fritsch's role and Kossie playing higher, which he did effectively against Brisbane.

The probable preferred solution is Brodie for BBB while retaining JVR. Brodie needs to be able to provide what BBB currently does in the air, he'll be better than BBB at ground level.

Of ‘forward craft’ is what he is learning - then he has no hope of replicating what BBB gives us.

If Gawn wants to make this work, great. But he is the one who has to spend more time forward and be better leading up at the footy, and leading in the right spots.

As a forward myself, a former forward coach - I don’t think there is a enough placed on having actual forwards who know what they are doing down there. Hopefully this changes that

I only internally scream watching games on the TV. 

And I am a Melksham apologist so I am glad he did that.

Makes me smug.

And I like that…