JimmyGadson

No, I'm not missing any point. Rowell was never spoken about in the same light as Reid. So whilst I can't definitively say Reid will be an elite player at AFL level, (just as you can't say Clayton's career will continue on an upward trajectory), I can compare both Reid and Rowell from the unders years and deduce that Reid is ahead in every facet and has been the more dominant player, therefore has a better chance of succeeding at the elite level. It is my view that Reid will be an elite AFL player and I think if we had him in place of Oliver right now, our team would function just as well.

Don't bother, she's blinded by her infatuation.

Mate, none of what I'm arguing has anything to do with Clayton's strengths. He is one of the best at the coalface that I've seen and of course all of his individual accolades are well deserved. I'm trying to project what a hypothetical side would look like without Oliver, and I'm of the opinion that we would be fine without Clayton if Reid and McKertcher came in. I'm spit-balling. All things have an element of risk attached. Even picking Clayton was a risk. And maybe some of that risk involved is rearing its head at the moment? Also, whoever compared Rowell with Reid has no idea I'm sorry. And if you're agreeing then it's going to be impossible to talk with you. Reid is a completely different player to Rowell and aside from their shared contested ball winning ability, Reid is far superior in just about every facet of the game as well as his physical makeup. What's most important here is what the player, (whether that be Reid or Oliver) would do to help our chances at winning another flag. Now I'm arguing that we would be no worse off with Clayton gone and Reid playing and down the line, we'd be better off. Especially if we landed McKertcher or Duursma with the other pick. Laugh all you want but as we've seen that our 'star-studded midfield' haven't exactly been setting the world on fire as a unit have they? So you can gush over all the individual accolades Clayton has won, but the fact is we've won only the single flag and we've had the most talented list in the comp just about for the past three seasons. As far as how valuable Clayton is to our 'team performance', I think he is grossly overrated given the sheer amount of players we have who have the same strengths and weaknesses as him. As an individual? Arguably the best contested mid in the comp. Which is more important to you? Something has to be shaken up if we want another flag.

The draft hasn't even happened and there's plenty of top end talent in the top 10 so what are you on about? I thought Weideman had potential to be something, I was wrong. I'm okay with that. Are you? Reid has a more well rounded game than Oliver, yes. That's my opinion. And it's part of why he's going number 1. He possess AFL level traits that see him play forward and back and at VFL level, those traits were on show. Fine that you disagree. Go back to banging on about how impenetrable our game-plan is compared to that of this years Premiers, it suits you.

One down, one or two to go imv. Goodwin simply needs to shift his thinking more. We need some bigger name coaches like Leppitsch/Bolton/Pyke. It's no wonder Collingwood and Carlton have leapt us, both head coaches have amazing support and experience.

The only way you'd lose out on this is if it were to cause unrest within the group, club and individual. That would be a disaster. But if everyone was okay with it and we received what we should in way of picks, which would see us land Reid and and a McKertcher... We'd be better off as a team whether people want to hear that or not. Reid can play everywhere and displays exactly the same level of competitiveness and contested ball winning ability as Clayton. He's further advanced than Clayton at the same age and already possesses traits that Clayton doesn't. McKertcher is the class, user and runner we need so desperately for that link and connection. I'll be content if Clayton stays and can get help and endeavour to improve other aspects of his game. But I definitely won't be upset if all parties come to an agreement and believe it's best for club and individual.

You also can't guarantee that Clayton will continue to improve parts of his game that need improving? Or that his behaviour will get better? Or that he won't get a long-term injury? We get it, you're an unabashed fan of the individual above all else.

Roos would make sense as as he's best mates with Simpkin and they have a full hand of top picks.

No, but the same setup has seen us bundle out in straight sets two years running. Anddddd we were a better functioning side without Oliver in the side this year. His value to as functioning well as a TEAM is at odds with the value he holds as an elite specialist inside INDIVIDUAL. People are confusing the two for some reason....

Harley Reid has a more well rounded game than Clarry as it stands. Clarry hasn't improved his week areas, regardless of how good his contest work is. Many people are blinded by their love for one individual. Might just be the best thing for Clayton and us long term. Everyone thought a Collingwood would fall off a cliff once Treloar left and Stephenson (to a lesser degree). We've shown that we actually function better as a side without another inside specialist in the side. Why don't we wait and see, eh?

Great post, agree.

Nice dart throw Johnno. The amount of drivel and filler thrown about this time of year from every media 'expert' is truly nauseating.

He'll be going into the 6th year of his seven year deal next year which he signed back in 2018. It's doable. No doubt about it. And we have space. Also, what makes you think he's still in a moonboot? I'm pretty sure he's out.

Gotta say, the lack of votes he received backs up my views of how wasteful he can be with ball in hand. Of course he missed games in the second half of the season. Hoping next year with a new midfield coach or couple of fresh assistants, we can see him making a stride forward on that side of his game. Cause he needs to improve it big time if we're going to compete at the pointy end again.

I guess we find out, eh? JVR will never be our KPF imo. He is a second tall to build around. Might be. Might also be that the club know better than both of us?

Overpaying for a key forward like McKay is not what I'd like or expect the club to pursue. What I have heard from a couple of people including a family member who works in the media is the Tom Lynch one whisper that won't go away. We're interested. And that makes most sense given his age, the transition period that Richmond are in and our window with May and Gawn. We wouldn't have to pay overs and we'd still have plenty of picks to work with both to trade or hot the draft.

A fantastic approach to take if you have a rock solid defence, skilled and pacey players from the back half right through to the forward half and a coach who encourages an exciting offensively minded game style when you win the ball back. Baffling that they won the Granny though!?

Well, they made a prelim last year. So their pre-season this year will be limited by an extra week? Backed it up this year, won the flag and were missing Adams and McStay. Key players missed throughout the entire year in Howe, Adams, Moore, De Goey (Suspension), Daicos. They've had an incredible year and have been the best team in it. But remember guys! @binman and @Binmans PA believe their game simply can't stand up in finals So the fact that they won the Grand Final means nothing, alright?

Disagree. We don't have enough finishing or class in that forward group. Even Petracca for how amazing he is as a powerful mid/forward is simply awful with his ball use far too often for an elite player. ANB, Spargo and Chandler similarly just don't give us that elite finishing ability. One more of those small forwards needs to be a specialist goal kicking pressure forward and not just a role playing forward. Our list forward of centre is completely vanilla aside from Pickett.

Both of these sides have multiple players who just finish and execute so often and the difference in quality to 'our finishers' is stark and hopefully a wake up call for Goody and co. We just do not finish our work like Collingwood and Brisbane. If we did, we'd be the best team in it by some margin.

The weather may be good on monday. But it also may be bad. Take that with a grain though.

Sometimes says, "Hold my beer."

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Agree with this wholeheartedly. Naughton is too good to say no too purely because of his set-shot kicking. It's just as much about the opportunities he'd create in the air. And in the air, there is nobody better. He marks it when he shouldn't, he creates carnage when he shouldn't and he is rarely if ever out-marked. Of all key forwards that we could pick, he'd suit us best. Another Ben Brown lead up target who relies on clean ball is not going to change us. Unless we drastically change our list. Naughton would be huge but are these just rumours or is there something here?

Unfortunately, it was an embarrassing reminder of what Clayton can do too often. Not thinking before doing. A lot of players did something that night that will haunt them. Smith helping Weitering. Gawn's mind-bogglingly wild decision to touch the ball on the line which should have been a goal for us. Jack Viney's right foot scrap kick on the wing, final minute. Jake Lever's decision to go long down the line rather than hit an angle short kick to soak seconds. It was honestly like a series of biblical moments that last quarter. Symbolising everything that undoes us as a side. And of course, we lost it.