Colm

Jeez the Bont is all class. Fav non Melbourne player. Unbelievable talent and humble as.

Don’t mind the changes, probably would have liked JVR to stay in and hopefully find AFL form. Understand that it’s time to get games into the likes of Howes and Turner but feel for Tmac. He did unbelievable well to get his body right and was our best tall defender before being dropped to rush Lever back in. Hard to see him signing in for another year to play at Casey.

I think rather than putting certain players on the market we should put it out there that we are going to be aggressive in reshaping our list and are open to all offers that we think will make sense for the club. Make us an offer. We need to learn from last year that shopping a player or a few players around isn’t great if it doesn’t come off, so we are open to offers on all and see if we get any bites.

Agree with both of you. We have a good crop of young talent but so do other clubs. We need to add more young talent both in terms of high end talent and role players. As much as I’d love to win another flag with Max I think we need to recruit players via trades and the draft that will be around when this crop peaks in 4-6 years. We aren’t in the position where we need a cherry on the top and can sell the farm to get it.

I get what you’re but think we would lose out massively if Judd went to WC. Should they wish they can play hardball and pick him up in the PSD. He’s probably not rated as highly as he should be by people outside the club either. Bergman has his pick of clubs in Vic and Cal has reported he’s been offered a 7/8 contract by port. The net cost of changing Judd for Bergman would be way too much imo both in terms of draft capital and contract terms. If he wants to go and doesn’t sign a contract then there’s not a lot we can do. But given our current position we really can’t afford to lose out on trades.

Is it time to start worry about him not signing a contract yet? Anybody got any intel? @Dannyz ? Given WC low ladder position we could lose him for very little at the end of the season if he doesn’t sign up.

Agree I’m not as bothered as I was about how Tassie coming in will affect the draft. Firstly who knows if they will even come in. Secondly they only get access Tassie talent next year and the year after they have to trade some of the picks they get. If we traded Clarry or Trac with a future second and pay a chunk of salary could we get a top 10 pick?

Agree with most of that. I don’t think we are a chance to get 6 good players in. Although I do think that’s what we need to contend again. But I do think for trading purposes we need to value our future picks as top 4 picks going off our current ladder position and last years. Given our recent player trades I wouldn’t be letting Tim trade out our next 2 years first round picks as we have too many holes to fill over that period and I think letting JT go to the draft with them is a better bet. After the review this year we were told we have a team that can challenge for finals yet we are currently heading into the bye in the bottom 4 with very few injuries. I’m don’t want to bet the farm that they can turn it around. We need to sell before we can buy.

White won’t be ready for a few years, Sinnema isn’t lighting it up at the min either. Happy to get both of them but not sure it makes us contenders next year. You don’t think we need more depth?! We can’t get a win at the minute with a full healthy list( more or less) to pick from. What about when we are 4/5 of our best 22 out injured? We saw how that goes in the first 5 games. Two good users would be handy so would a ruck/forward or a forward who can kick straight, another small forward be handy too. I think 6 players is about right, 3 to improve our top end say in our top 15 players and 3 that would fall in the 15-30 range

I had been thinking along the same lines but the more I think about it the more I think we need to go to the draft again. I’m in favour of making aggressive moves to give us capital but I think it might be smarter to invest that capital in the draft. We have more or less a full fit list at the min,I think we would need 6 players to have us contending again. 3 quality players like you said and another 3 role type or good depth players. We would require another 3/4 the following year after some retirements. I just can’t trust the same people that have been responsible for our player trades post flag to get that many successful trades done. Our success rate has been much better at the draft( apart from key forwards). Maybe we just need to take our medicine and suck it up for another couple of years. I think we need to assume that both our FF are going to be top 4 picks we need to make sure we nail whatever players we bring in with them. Draft seems safer to me.

If Goody does stay then we a very good forward coach to come in. I wouldn’t mind even a specialist key forward coach to come in over the summer in addition to a new forward coach. Agree about being aggressive with our list management this off season. Problem is it’s not the best year to do so given we don’t have a current first rounder and this draft is meant to be poor in terms of quality and depth. It will make it more difficult to pick up a gem or two with later or rookie picks. I think we need a min of 5/6 players that can have an impact next year. If we put out 2 future first on the table and don’t get it right then it will be a very long road back. Even if we were to get Jackson for those two FF we still have a lot of holes to fill with not a lot of capital.

Agree his work around the contest is fine. He’s just not interested in marking the ball if it leaves him in a vulnerable position which is understandable but reduces his ability to play forward roles as well as previously.

I’ve just scrolled through this thread from page 30(twice). Can’t find the post that I was referring to. So I’ve either inagined it or it’s in another thread. I’m convinced I read it though as it stuck with me. However if I can’t find it then I guess I shouldn’t be claiming what other posters have or haven’t said in the past.

Yes but a 9 year contract exposes you to more risk. Just look at the amount of pages that have been written on here questioning the length of contract extensions we have to Trac, Clarry and Viney not to mention Gus. All their contract lengths have been brought into question at different stages for different reasons, given that it’s not unreasonable to be a little nervous at a 9 year contract even if the overwhelming feeling is of shear joy that we have Kossie signed on for life. The filth winning their last flag not long after a salary dump in the trades of Grundy and Treloar shows that even if these long contracts don’t work out there can still be a path to success. But it leaves very little wriggle room for bad luck or other decisions that don’t work out as hoped. Success might take balls but getting more decisions right than wrong and having luck on your side certainly helps too.

Well at this stage the concussion terms haven’t changed. We are still paying for Gus so we know all too well that it can and does happen. Petty hasn’t been as good since he did his foot, Spargo was out for a year and probably hasn’t returned to previous form. ACL injuries and so on. Also I can’t remember if it was @Dannyz or @goodwindees who said earlier in this thread that was a growing number of people within the club that were becoming tired of having to bend over backwards for Kossie. A bigger contract on more money may increase tension should he continue to flirt with other clubs in the future. We’ve seen with Clarry that a bigger contract can be a burden when things aren’t going as well. I’m over the moon we have signed him and if the decision was down to me I would 100% do it, but a 9 year contract on big money is not without risk.

Our coaching and development of key forwards over the past number of years has been shocking. Not surprising we are failing to get the best out of a defender playing forward when we are failing to get the best out of more natural forwards.

I was one that was thinking he was the answer to our prayers when he kicked 6 against Richmond. In fact I said after that game if we kept Max fit and Petty in form we would win the flag that year. I still think that’s true. I was solely focused on him the following week against North when he got that foot injury and prior to the injury I thought he was fantastic. Taking good marks, good set shot kicking, leading into space, putting blocks in for others in short the total package for KPF. He is the definition for a confidence player Unfortunately he hasn’t come anywhere near that very short bit of form post injury. I think we have a better chance of getting him back to his best if he goes back and plays in defence along side lever who I think is good at pumping up his tyres when needed. Perhaps we throw May forward for a game or two to see if that works. Not like we need to worry about finals now anyways. Petty back to his best and paired with Disco and our future defence would be looking strong.

I did mention it earlier in the thread that I didn’t think it made a heap of sense for Freo to go for Kossie when they have just signed Bolton on big coin for two first round draft picks. As well as the $2.5m in cap space you’re also looking at 5 first round picks all up imho. Add Murphy Reid into the equation who has been brilliant this year and I rate very very highly. Vic clubs will come hard for him over the next couple of years Freo will need to match offers. It’s just way too much capital to put out on small forward types even if they are spending time in the middle Also Freo made it known earlier this season that they were going to priorities Chad Warner above Kossie.

Yup, would also be a bit of a statement if we can get him to sign. All the negative stories that have been in the media and yet our best talent is willing to sign on for life. Would be a good step in the right directions towards attracting other players to come. Who wouldn’t like to play with Kossie.

I get what you’re saying Layzie. It’s a massive contract when we already have others tied in on very long expensive contracts. The length concerns me more than the value. $1.4m is what he’s worth to offer him less would be unders when the likes of Trac and Clarry are in as much as maybe more( I’ve seen figures as high as $1.7m this year). Ruckmen are getting paid $1.4m these days. I thought Jackson on $900k was to expensive until I looked at what some others are getting. The length of the contract is a worry for me. We’ve already seen it okay out that form and injuries can have a massive effect on players ability to give value for money. But any club that comes in for him would have to be offering 7 years as that what the top players are being offered now. Freo already have Young and I thing Jackson on similar terms. By going to 9 it means we can’t be beaten. It also sets his trade value should he choose not to stay. The biggest contract offer in AFL would require just about the biggest trade deal ever.

9 years seems a lot but I’m guessing we wanted to table an offer that no team could beat in terms of value or length. One of the very best in the comp, can swing a game by himself amazing to watch and will put bums on seats for the next decade.

Think the aftermath of the Collingwood game is a good point to give this thread a bump. A few things that stood out to me. Leaving aside coaching and tactics for this thread Unfortunately the pies at currently top of the table and the benchmark to compares ourselves against. I’ve stated elsewhere that I was confident before the game and thought it was a good time for us to be playing them. They have an injury list that’s twice the size of ours( 5&10) and probably twice as many best 22 players out(2&4). It’s no coincidence that we have returned to being competitive since we have had more or less a full list to choose from. We just don’t run deep enough to cover a few key outs. I think we are 5/6 players short of having a list that can properly contend. That 5/6 doesn’t all have to be best 22 but they all at least challenging the best 22 and at least 2/3 need to be best 22. They seem to have a lot more players with greater ability to move the ball well. This is clearly an area we have tried to address in the last two drafts with Windsor, XL and Langford Hopefully some at Casey will get a chance before the end of season to show what they have got( Sestan and Adam’s maybe). But we will have to get creative and a bit ruthless this off season. In order to get 5/6 players I think we need there will also be some misses so we might need to turn over up to 20% of the list. If we could bring Jackson in and hold onto Kossie it would mean given up our two future first picks which means we wouldn’t have much else to trade with without players going out Worth noting that Collingwood are top of the ladder and played McStay and Membrey as their key forwards yesterday. Not all players we bring in have to cost a lot.

Flat as a pancake after that result. Gave up on finals after our 0-5 start and have been happy to look at positives other than results in games since that. But yesterday I just wanted a win no matter how we got it. Thats 10 out of 11 games we have lost to the filth. Horrible. I was one of the few confident going into the game, felt we were getting them at a good time. It ended up being as good an example of all the things we have been doing wrong for way too long now.

Have a feeling we get up today. Expect to filth to have started their bye loading last week. It’s now our GF. Wet conditions will mean a lower scoring game which I think is in our favour. Langford to have a big game.

Given the overall standard of this years crop is thought to be very poor it’s a bit of a concern that neither rates highly at this stage. Hopefully Sinnema can have a good champs series and move up the ratings.