Deeko2

I remember thinking he would be our next AA and our next premiership backline was going to be: FB: Strauss. Frawley. Jetta HB: Grimes. McDonald. Garland How times change. Anyways, as I mentioned above, I remember it a bit differently and his work down back was going along ok and he was developing fine - he had a lot of practice back there. He did have some turnovers but his days as a defender really only ceased permanently due to injuries and the Weid taking a while to develop imo.

It’s funny how different people recall things. Not saying I’m right or you’re right, I just remember it differently. His mobility was fine as lots of times he streamed out of half back with no issues - other than his occasional shank in kicking. He was Nick Riewoldts hardest opponent (Nick told me directly this) so it’s hard to believe that at this stage he had mobility issues and lacked footy smarts. With this in mind, I’m thinking that perhaps he will get back to playing solid footy as a backman with some higher quality players around him like he did with AA Frawley next to him. As for 2018 forward Tom, I disagree again. I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread that not once did he receive the best defender or the interceptor forcing him into a 2 on 1 unless Hogan was out injured. It was the common theme that was happening all year. He was still great in 2018 but the fact he’s done sweet bugger all since up forward with more focus on him pretty much confirms that he’s just a good number 2. Anyways, with this all said and done, I’d rather Weid, Jackson, May and Lever as our spine for 2021 and hope is wage spent somewhere else.

My god.... Why didn’t our recruiters think of this earlier?? He’s an amazing player. I want to hate him as he’s a star playing for a team that I’m so over but you can’t falter the way he goes about it. That contest where he took out three pies players in the air setting up a goal was absolutely inspirational. One would say, “Hogan like”

I don’t believe these posts are correct from what I recall. His form down back was fine, he had no issues playing his role there and we didn’t hide him forward due to poor form at all. He had to go forward as the Weed was playing like a 10 year old boy and was in the twos for most of the year. Hoges was battling cancer and Gawn was crippled also. There was no one else other than Pedo where they tucked and rested up forward. Him going forward had nothing to do with him playing poorly down back. I’m not a TMac lover and have continually said his 50 goals will never be repeated until he’s back to a number 2 forward. With Jackson/Weid there now I have no issue with him going back. A couple times over the last two years he gave a chop out down back and didn’t look good. A concern would be impacting the cohesion there as May/Hibberd provide better rebound whilst May/Lever have better hands. Still, Tommy’s are pretty safe and it might take a while to settle but I would be fine with him going back down back. The positive could be that Max could rest forward instead of a kick behind the ball with another big back there.

This is glorious. Essendon are my most hated team just to let people know so I couldn’t be happier about this. It seems there are some loose lips around the Bombers where people have vented about him not being particularly flexible in his role and he may have cracked the sads about it being made public and rightly so. Why you wouldn’t shut your mouth till the deal is done is beyond me. If anything, I’d be leaking how incredibly talented, hard working, positive for culture, etc he is to maximise the compensation. The club has so much arrogance in regards to list management and had so much swagger around last year in making Daniher and Faz stay. Couldn’t be happier it’s come back to bite them on the toosh and hope they lose Saad for sweet bugger all

I’m definitely no advocating for it SONS, more just giving comfort there are some other people around whom could play his role at a slightly higher level and remain year to year prospects.

Frosty played some good footy for the Hawks this year and well done to him on his accolades there. He still has quite a few “Frosty” moments in fumbling uncontested marks and double grabbing the ball that made a lot of my Hawks mates nervous as hell which I admit to enjoying. I really hope he goes well but I don’t miss him at the dees one bit and would much rather Lever/May under the high ball or with the ball in there hands than Frost when the game is on the line. Also don’t forget, he does have 3 years of extra development on Lever being a little older. Im comfortable in our recruiting in the backline allowing us to let him go. The chase down tackle of Petrucelle basically sums up his career for mine. Brilliant chase, burys him, gets up as quick as lightning only to kick it on the full. He’s an excitement machine being both so good and then so bad all within seconds. Following the dees is enough stress on my life without him making things worse!!

Unfortunately Oscar has been around long enough and still hasn’t improved enough to be a mainstay at the top level. He still plays like an 18 year old boy which would be forgivable if he was but he’s been around the club 6 years now and hasn’t overly improved in this time. He played a really good game earlier in the year with a couple intercepts and some rebounding which I was thrilled to see only for him to revert back into his shell. I don’t know Oscar at all but he strikes me as just a nice, shy kid who needs a bit more dog and swagger to him to be a top line player - which I doubt will never happen. Has never deserved the heat he has copped online and it disgusted me some of the crap thrown his way which I believe the club is at fault for as well. He should have been playing twos for his first 3 years till he was dominating that level and built the confidence to play top line footy. Instead he was in and out like a yo-yo playing like a kid scared of making a mistake. In saying that though, a change of scenery will be best for him. Plenty of talent in the state leagues in which we’ve seen players like Mihocek and Sam Collins really show there worth. Id rather take a punt on one of these types or bring back Frawley as protection for Lever/May in case of injury.

Really good post AF in regards to the Port Adelaide comparisons. The other thing I’ve noticed about Port is is the amount of inside mids they play. I read on here frequently about Trac, Olly, Viney and Brayshaw being one too many yet they won over the weekend with Wines, Boak, Powell-Pepper and Rockliff in the guts. They also rotated Robbie Gray through there who won some vital clearances as did Darcy B-J. I really like how the Power have gone about it over the last couple years and right now my monies on them for the flag.

I was saying the same. So exciting every time he’s near it. Can only hope that Kozzie is as good or exceeds him in a couple of years

There’s not exactly a massive sample size for either argument. The response could be how he needed Jesse as Tom only had one game where he kicked 4 or more goals without Hogan in 2018 with Jesse continually receiving the best backman. I’ve always thought Tom has had a solid career and worked incredibly hard to get the most out of every ounce of talent he has. With this in mind though, I can’t see he’ll ever have a year like 2018 again (the 6/6/6 rule prevents us playing that way) so I wouldn’t mind if he left. I strongly believe we need a number 1 key forward and would happily offload Tommy for a Cameron or Brown who would both be upgrades imo.

People will be underwhelmed if they’re solely looking at Jacks stats as he doesn’t have the free rein that Olly and Trac get. He played a lot of defensive roles this year and played them very well which again is confirmed by his placing in the B and F. His third placing also debunks a lot of myths that he’s not coachable. I don’t get where people get this from other than making some crap up. Ill admit, there were a few times this year the remote nearly went through the TV when he was pinned HTB but I have faith that this was due to him trying to lace someone instead of 2019 footy in bombing it in to no one. He’s not on the same level as Olly and Trac but he’s a bloody good foot soldier who Id much rather have in the red and blue. I don’t mind players testing the market to estimate there worth. It would be ridiculous if you didn’t as we all know how quickly a career can end. He’s got a young family to take care of. Pay him what’s fair as there’s a reason why other teams are after him.

Agree fully. Theres a bit too much hype around Jackson (I’m onboard by the way) but it’s laughable to think he’ll be impacting finals games anytime soon. We need another quality big man now as in finals footy you need escape kicks into the forward line and two quality key forwards up there. Look what the Tigs did after the 2018 prelim loss, they went out and got Lynch. Fast forward 12 months to the finals and the same prelim Riewoldt stank it up but they were saved by Lynch being amazing. Then in the GF Lynch was held well allowing Riewoldt off the leash. Just watching the Dogs vs Saints finals and the only time the dogs looked dangerous was the last quarter when Naughton finally clunked a couple. They were smashed in the air. Weid will just continue to develop and chip away. Jackson will come into his own in three years time but for now, I’d like to see him play as the third tall as he has the pace and agility to pressure and chase well. Jackson is an exciting talent and allows us to play another key forward. For me, that allows us to go and get big Benny.

To do a runner there is clearly something behind the scenes that would be alcohol or drug related. Why else would one do it? Oh Jack. I don’t think there has ever been a MFC player that I wanted to really achieve higher standards more than Jack. I’ve always stuck up for him but he really does continue to crap the bed and tarnish his “good lad” reputation.

It’s always the challenge to know exactly what a players role is and if they’re performing it or not - would love to be on the inner sanctum. On roles, Lewis had a great start to his career on ball and then as we know moved into the HBF spot where he was a back line leader where he was beneficial in structuring us up correctly. He played the HBF spot at a decent level until it got too quick for him. His kicking skills were solid for this role. Right now, I just don’t know what Jonesys role really could be as he no longer has speed, doesn’t have height, isn’t overly agile and isn’t overly dangerous around the goals. He’s not going to play in in the backline. He’s not going to play on ball in front of Oliver, Trac and Viney. I don’t think he is in before some fringed players either. I’ve never been an ANB fan as he struck me as a player who’s afraid of his own shadow but even he adds some pace and kicks more goals. AVB has more speed and aggression plus height as he likes to contest in the air. Milkshake is on thin ice but still gets his score assists each game and has played a couple negating games ok and Fritsch is fine. We need to keep getting games into Kozzie and I know Hunt can be up and down but let’s not forget he was one goal from leading our goal kicking award last year and today’s another reminder the ball can play - plus he has pace which we are desperate for!! As I said earlier, I really love Jonesy, always will and thankful he stuck around during the tough times but right now he’s one of my last picked for a gig in the 22.

There aren’t many true forward pockets in the comp who get more than a dozen touches a game. Those who do usually play decent time in the guts also. Even Tippa for the bombers has copped heat this year by people saying he doesn’t do enough and most touches he get are golden. Butler has gone missing at times along with Charlie Cameron. It’s a hard role to play if you want to have decent looking stats. Hes tracking along fine and you’d be silly to expect more from him in his first year. In my mind, we have plugged in a quality forward pocket for the next 12 years

This is nearly word for word what I was going to write. I don’t think people are understanding his role. He was great last week in stopping Haynes’ intercepts and his first half against Ridley has bee great as Ridley has been super this year and will probably win the bombers B and F. His kicking for goal usually look straight they just go towards 11 or 1 o’clock. He really needs to sort this as it would elevate him to another level. His game today and last week has been very good

For some reason mentioning Frawley here sparked some interest about his contract status. This may get shot down in flames but would we consider him back if the Hawks delist? Other than Burgoyne I’m guessing they’re going to be looking to get rid of a few older lads this offseason. He’s still playing decent football as a lockdown defender and frees May and especially Lever up to be more attacking. Plus provides insurance as of May goes down then god help us. Will be a lot more supported now with some good kicking around him. Dont hate me, just a thought and upgrade on Oscar - if only for 12 months

Sorry Pollyanna, just to be clear you’re saying you’d be mad to not take the players right? I’d always rather a known commodity (Saad/Viney) then a pick 18-30ish. Unfortunately due to severe boredom I’ve watched most bombers games this year. We’d be made not to chase Saad. Will be top 3 in there B and F, has speed, is a great kick and surprisingly is a very good defender. Unfortunately Nev is about done, the pace of the game has gone past him and Hibberd isn’t getting any younger. If he’s keen then it’s a 100% yes from me.

I understand what you’re saying but even with Michael Voss / Chris Judd leading the club we’d still have been ordinary over the Jones years. Jonesy’s dedication, match day preparation and recovery methods are second to none from all reports. He is a true professional which I believe would add serious value to some fringe players or players with potential in the new VFL. He’s never been a William Wallace like leader with the big speeches and never a superstar player like some mentioned above but I truly believe he squeezed every bit of talent out of his body and shows leadership just by the example he sets. I’d be 100% in favour of him playing on in the twos with a contract from Casey (not the dees) just so players can learn from him in regards to professionalism. I am however disappointed he wants to go on. I would have thought he’d know the writing is on the wall with his body breaking down and his lack of impact on games. I love the bloke but he’s only tarnishing his reputation by going on and it strikes me as someone seeking personal glory (reaching 300 and breaking Neita’s record) or financial gain more than having a positive impact at AFL level. I think it’s time for him to bow out with some grace so we can reminisce over the good games he played, not so much his last 2 years.

I agree fully with this list. On top of Hibberd and Viney, these are the only lads in my opinion who are AFL lever footballers at present. FB: Lever. May. Rivers HB: Hibberd. ??? ???? C. Langdon. Viney. ??? HF: ??? ??? ???? FF: Picket. Jackson. ??? R: Gawn. Oliver. Trac. I’m a Weid fan but he still needs to keep improving to continually get a game. There’s a hell of a lot of holes to be plugged imo. I’ve lost the emotional attachment to most players as I’ve gotten older so I’m all for trading a star if the right deal came along. We need to get real busy this year at trade week and look for some quality free agents. If we bring in a Preuss or Tomlinson like I’ll be filthy. Go hard for more quality please

A club with a history of being mentally weak is rubbish imo. If we had the same players, coaches and administrators over the last 56 years I’d believe it but we continually make changes to all in order to try improve. Unfortunately with us however it’s one step forwards one step backwards at present. I don’t believe players like Trac, Olly, Viney, May, Lever, Gawn are mentally weak at all. They all have there flaws which get exposed at times but good teams can cover a star player underperforming on week. I’m 36 and followed the dees closely my whole life and In my opinion, there is not once I’ve ever looked at a dees team and thought “Wow, this team looks amazing and will clearly be top 4 this year.” We’ve never had a super team like Brisbane, Hawthorn, Geelong or Essendon did in there little eras over the last 25 years and the only way we’d get a flag would be to fluke it like the doggies but we blew that chance in 2018. We do need to get our foundations sorted more than anything. An elite base where players would want to train and improve there development. Furthermore, somewhere free agents find attractive. Our talent (and coaching at times) has always been the issue for mine, not this mentallly weak rubbish.

I don’t think being in an out of the team would help anyone’s confidence and would clearly increase the fear of failure in players which wouldn’t help. Still, you need to look at it the other way also and see that he’s had plenty of chances in the team but still is nowhere good/consistent enough. His marking yesterday was awful and a couple odf intercept drops resulted directly in scoring chains. This is what frustrates me the most in his game. He’s tall but doesn’t play like a big. He offers little once the ball hits the deck, he offers nothing on the rebound, he offers little as an intercept player and minimal in the air other than the occasional spoil. I want him to play well as he seems a lovely chap who has copped so much very harsh criticism along the journey but the reason for this is that he’s not good enough and continues getting picked when everyone knows he’s not good enough. He doesn’t pick himself obviously and therefore doesn’t deserve what he cops but he definitely doesn’t help himself with poor errors continually. If he was still 18 years old I’d cut him some more slack but he’s now mid 20’s with 6 pre seasons under his belt and still plays as well as he did in 2014. Unfortunately for Oscar he really just isn’t good enough imo but good on him so far, he’s played more games than I ever got to. I still believe there are better options as potential rookies or running around in the state leagues that would add more than Oscar.

I’ve heard of a cold shiver up ones spine but a cold slither is even more haunting!! I completely understand it however (oddly) following our boys for years and years. I’m oddly confident against Swans and Freo but worry against GWS and big time against the bombers as who knows what those oxygen thieves will bring in the final round.

I hope more than anyone he gets to 300, I really do but gifting someone games if there undeserving is worse for culture than getting him there. Right now, hes only getting a dozen touches a game, not impacting the scoreboard and adds zero speed and not a lot of defensive pressure. With that little impact he needs every possession to be immaculate. They’re not. If he’s still playing decent footy he gets picked but if not, bad luck. It’s a ruthless business. Personally I’d rather Harmes in as on a wing I feel he has a higher ceiling and will impact the game more. I love Jonesy but I’d rather win with him out than loose with him in. Lenny Hayes wasn’t given another year. Judd, Voss, Buckley, Hird never got to 300. Few do. It means bugger all in regards to how he’s remembered by dees supporters and adds nothing extra to the respect earnt from external supporters as well. Id be disappointed if he wanted to go on and imagine he will announce his retirement intentions over the next couple weeks and he will get a send off festival as a demons great for sticking around during the dark days. Its a shame we won’t get to see him chaired off at the G in front of the adoring fans. He deserves this more than anything.