CP5

I have little interest in Casey or their flag attempts. All things being equal I'd be happy for them to win, but it's not hugely important to me as I follow a different team in the VFL. I also don't believe it's critically important to the players development, although it would be nice for them. As far as the list goes I'll back the club on individuals, but in the main I'm a proponent of turning the list over, which is something the club has been historically poor at doing. They've held on to ordinary players for way too long, dating back at least 15 years. The two McDonalds were picks 53, Hunt 57, Harmes, vandenBerg, and Frost (GWS) rookies. Jetta has most recently been a rookie and Hibberd was a pre-season draft selection. Potentially our entire back-line for 2017 is a group of 50+ draft pick selections or rookies. The club will know who they want to keep, but in the main keep turning the list over and back Taylor and his crew to unearth some gems. There will come a time when there'll be room for consolidation, but in my opinion we're not there yet.

So you don't trust our medical team ?

I assume you noted that the poster I was quoting said " There appears to be no other team chasing this guy I wonder why". Perhaps not...

Jack, I think a prudent approach would be to accept that you and I have zero clue what is happening behind the scenes, or who clubs are or aren't discussing.

Bump A few poster on BF have stated that Mitch Clark has been sacked from Geelong. Nothing has been announced, but comments include: "Anyway at the end of the day Clark has been fired from Geelong and Geelong is the clear loser in the trade deal as Clark has played about 10 games for us with basically no impact in any of them." "Isn't it common knowledge yet that geelong has already sacked him and he has left the club?" And - "This. I'm surprised it hasn't blown up more." (in response to post above) The comments are from 3 separate Geelong supporters today.

Will be a gun. Would love this guy at the Dees.

14 marks (5 contested) in round 22 seems to account to nothing. Prior to this weekend Riewoldt's record was 18 marks. But at least Schwarz is saying Hogan should take a leaf out of Hawkin's book. It only took Hawkins 6 seasons to have a breakout year and 69 games to reach Hogan's tally of 85.

I'd hate to be in the trenches with many of you.

I was at his first game against Melbourne when he kicked a couple of goals and looked a likely player. I wonder what's gone wrong. There appeared to be an issue 12 months ago before he accepted another contract.

Leadership is involved in EVERY win. Do you want me to highlight some of our 15 losses last year that contributed to our 70 odd percentage as evidence of our poor leadership in 2015 ? To suggest our leadership has gone backwards is utter nonsense.

You'll have to admit that Wise snookered you. While far from acceptable our leadership hasn't gone "backwards", which was your assertion. Rathet than argue "semantics" you should just concede the point and say "yes, poor choice of words".

We definitely lack leaders. It's a legacy of having consistently the youngest and least experienced team in the competition.

If one puts the entire season in context and not one game in isolation we're well placed. GWS in 2015: 11 wins/99% Dees in 2016: 10 wins/97% GWS had 2 x 80+ point losses and we had one over 10 goals, albeit a bad one. There are obviously no guarantees that we'll emulate GWS, but I do see similarities.

It's incredible, isn't it ? A 21 year old key forward playing the hardest position on the ground with next to no support is ridiculed after a 40+ goal season where he's finished top 10 in the league for contested marks, 7th for total marks and 6th for marks inside 50. He hasn't played 50 games and yet some are talking about trading him. Some people could watch footy for 60 years and still be clueless about the sport they love.

Poor ball use and decision making. It just shows the gulf between AFL and VFL. Can't say I'm a fan.

Except the bulk of our best talent have played less than 50 games and many of those less than 30. A young GWS team lost to a lowly Melbourne in round 23 last year on their way to 11th (11 wins). They'll finish top 4 with 16 wins. As disappointing as yesterday was I won't be despairing too much. We'll be better again next year and the players have a pointed reminder as to where they need to take their game.

97% to 54% suggests so. 11 x 60+ point thrashings to 1 x 60+ point thrashings also suggests so. Perhaps you have a different metric.

I haven't seen it mentioned, but one of the more interesting features on a bleak day was Hogan's run up for goal near the end. It looked almost normal. I love Hogan despite his indifferent year. Gee he gets marked hard for a young player. Hopefully he takes Petracca to the goal-kicking range. His set shots are unfathomable for a quality young player.

The players will find it hard to look Roos in the eyes. They saved their only 10 goal defeat for the year until his last game. And his worst loss ever. But despite this bitter pill I take solace in the young emerging group, which has quality right through it.

No senior players that lead the way.

You'll have to get over your obsession with one position. Rampe - one position; Enright - one position; Shaw - one position; Laird - one position; Birchall - one position; Docherty - one position; Zac Williams - one position; Neville Jetta - one position ... If you don't think Hibberd is good enough that's fine, but I'd lose the concerns over "one position". Although I'll add that he came 4th in their B&F in 2014, which was a year they played finals. The description "foot soldier" suggests to me that you're not overly familiar with the player. At 27 he's in his prime. I've also never worried about a player's pay. I'll back the club to manage the finances within the salary cap.

It's hard to know if Jack had any lingering psychological issues with his foot this year. It's possible that he was still protecting it without being fully cognisant he was doing so. A full preseason, his first in 5-6 years, is deserved. I don't think he needs to find much pace to be the footballer we crave. If he can get full confidence and increased strength in his take off lever (foot) it just might make the small difference required. We're only talking fractions here, even though some may think it's quantum. It's also not insignificant that Jack is a former captain and one of the most popular players at the club. From where the club has been the culture and fabric looms large. As for Picket's question about what position he'll play or who he'll supplant, it's not as profound as he thinks. If he's good enough he'll create a spot, if he's not he won't. None of us would have had Hunt in the team this time last year. Now he's a staple running off half-back. Creating a position or role is what the preseason and practice games is all about. If Jack can become that bit lighter on his feet I can see him in a Vince, Bartel or Jarrad McVeigh type role, where one minute you're a mainstay in defence cutting off a mark, the next bobbing up with a crucial mark 30 out, or shutting down the opposition's best mid. Trengove has the versatility to be a utility. None of Vince, Bartel or McVeigh are quick, but their first movement is better than what Jack has recently shown. Can Jack get those first 3 metres back? For the sake of one position on the list and one full preseason it's hard to fathom why anyone thinks it's not worth the punt. Even if you do think success unlikely.

At a time when quality users of a football have never been more valuable, largely due to a modern game based on turnovers, you don't jettison a clearly talented 21 year old former top 10 pick, who has struggled with injury. That would be foolish and hasty in the extreme. I remember a young Scott Thompson, who was invariably injured at Melbourne, leave for Adelaide where he's hardly missed a game.

Heath Shaw was 28 when he played his first game at GWS. How has that turned out for them ? Heath Shaw is their general down back. He organises teammates and uses the footy well out of defence. How often do you see him in a midfield rotation ? Answer - never. How often is Grant Birchall in Hawthorn's midfield rotation ? Answer - never. Hibberd will be a terrific mature pick up in a young team with an even younger backline.

Looked a bit emotional in this morning's 21 minute presser, which is now up on the club website.