Goodvibes

I like Tom McDonald. Rivers should be worried.

I think we need to spread rumours of Jack getting expelled from school after a romp with a young would-be WAG on a school camp and then orchestrate a nightclub king-hit on our future star.

Yep, 2 hours of crap footy will destroy the memory of Jim Stynes. Get a grip.

About the only reason to watch the Dees play at the moment. And he'll get better.

It's obviously way too early for this kind of talk but if the season follows the vibe of the first couple of rounds then we'll have to deal with GWS and Gold Coast. I'd give GWS Sylvia on a better than market rate and then offer to take Warnock back off Gold Coast. In exchange they'd of course promise not to nominate for Jack. Easy.

Can't believe I changed my Carlton/Brisbane tip from Carlton to Brisbane at the very last minute. Cost me 9 our of 9. Friday arvo drinks are dangerous!

Unless we do a deal.

Awesome post. I don't think enough evidence exists to categorically dismiss the benefits of bottoming out and basing a climb up the ladder around a series of high draft picks. Losing Scully certainly wasn't part of the plan but if we are to have an ordinary (ladder position) year coming to terms with the approach and gameplan of a new coach and we only finish above 2 or 3 teams then we will be incredibly well placed to fill the remaining pieces of our premiership jigsaw. As much as I've challenged the cultural ramifications of tanking, I'm convinced that high draft picks are the most probable means of finding the midfield class and out and out elite talent that we will need to win a premiership. Losing Scully and the perceived slow development of Watts and Blease is no reason for us to ignore the benefits of high draft picks. Frawley and Garland are approaching their peak. Watts and Cook will hopefully be there within the next few seasons. We know midfielders develop more quickly and if we get our picks right then the 2015 - 2020 window should be an exciting time. BH summed up the situation really well. We're all tired of the wait but the reality is the re-building needs one last phase and we're fortunate to be in a position to do so with quality draft picks. Whilst the addition of Clark is important structurally, building from within is clearly the best path. We rightly bemoan our lack of leadership but it's important that we don't hang on to our older players for the sake of experience and perceived leadership. Green, Davey and in my opinion Moloney and Sylvia should all go at the end of the season. I'd trade terminate Davey's contract and cop the payout. I'd trade the latter two in the hope of improving our draft position further. The departures of Johnstone and McLean were the correct play by the club and I think we should try to cash in with Sylvia. We're all seduced by his end product but his defensive skills are ordinary and his off-field antics aren't needed. Moloney wouldn't hold the same currency but I'd test the market with him as well. We've taken the bold step of naming two very young co-captains. I think we should back them in and cut the dead wood. If BH is right when he suggests that young midfielders groomed through the TAC are more ready than ever then hopefully we'll be enjoying our footy again sooner rather than later.

Round 2, 2012 - it's a sad situation but would make for an interesting poll. It would also be interesting to compare the thinking of the 2012 anti-tankers with their previously held positions.

I've noticed that anyone who is sidelined by injury during a losing streak automatically looks more promising than anything on the field! Having said that, I agree. I think Gysberts has the overall package to be a very important midfielder for us. He was compared to Joel Corey a couple of years ago. I hope he continues to build his physique to match that of Corey's and develops the mental application that has seen Corey utilize every last ounce of talent he possesses.

Would you support us tanking again this year?

Excuse my self-indulgent double-bump but I'm just interested on how we're all sitting on the "winning/losing culture" issue.

I'm a little worried about this sponsorship situation. If only the club could find a way to generate more media exposure to help lure a sponsor.

The disappearance of Yze Magic

You purposely didn't watch an interview with our coach because you're over the talk by the MFC but then clicked on a thread focused on what was said in that same interview? Interesting. I lapped it up. Any opportunity to get an insight into the way our new coach thinks about the game is fascinating given the importance he will obviously play in what we hope is our next premiership. I would certainly have approached many things differently to him but as a student of 'leadership' with some coaching experience, I'm fascinated to see if his approach will get the 'buy in' from the players that so many in the media are talking about. He seems almost 'old school' in his treatment of players and seemingly even his gameplan but as I've been at pains to point out on this forum of late, we tend to look at things in black and white. Either you're a boundary line team or a corridor team. Either you're possession team or a bomb it long team. Either you're a hands-on man manager of a coach or you're autocratic and disciplined. I'm looking forward to Neeld revealing exactly where he stands and observing the grey when it emerges.

Try growing up in the 70's and early 80's.

Could we possibly play Moloney, Jones, Couch, Magner, McKenzie and Bate all in the same team? Surely two of that group must miss out. I know most here will nominate Bate. And where does the Couch/Magner promotion leave Gysberts? I'm hoping both McKenzie and Gysberts play but I've always got an eye to the future. Looking forward to selection tomorrow night.

I actually suggested that there's grey between your assessment and the simplistic view that the alternative to yourself is the happy clapping, strawberry fields Demonland supporter. I'm a debating coach and the first thing I tell my debaters is to take an extreme stance and to distance yourself from the opposition as much as you can. That's exactly what you're doing. That's what makes you a good debater but it doesn't necessarily mean you're accurately summarizing the views of people here. You're suggesting that Watts has critical issues in his game and that the alternative view is that he doesn't and he'll be right in the end. It's not that simple as you've shown yourself by suggesting with a softened view that you believe that the penny will drop and I've shown by acknowledging that I'm disappointed with his unwillingness to assert himself in contested situations. There's your grey. I think most on here share your concerns. Just because one supporter gets a little excited and makes a Brownlow comparison (which I think was unfairly criticized and taken out of context) after his Casey performance doesn't mean that the vast majority of us are putting our heads in the sand and failing to see his flaws. When you make statements like, "I know that 26 disposals and a couple of goals from a wing/half forward will excite nearly every Melbourne supporter", you're setting this up in a Rono-style us versus them argument - the chest beating realists versus the rose-coloured glasses-wearing optimists. You're right, it is a chat forum and of course you're entitled to share a differing view. I just think you regularly choose to stereotype and pigeon-hole those with a very slightly different view to your own to create the impression that there is a huge chasm between you and everyone else. I've always loved reading your contributions and know that you've spent an enormous amount of time defending Jack over his first two and half season over on bigfooty. You've given opposition supporters heaps and Jack hasn't always backed you up and I completely understand your disappointment. I certainly hope, when you suggest that the penny will drop that you're right. The alternative, I'm afraid, is another decade of mediocrity.

One of my ongoing frustrations is the way so many on here view things in simple black and white. I've gone on record here as saying that Jack Watts is the single most important player on our list in terms of our premiership jigsaw. I'm massively disappointed with his inability (so far) to show that he has the necessary mongrel to split a pack open or the willingness to compete more ferociously in one on one contests. But I fail to see how repeatedly lamenting his flaws on a football forum is going to help the situation and more importantly make Jack a more traditional bash and crash CHF. If you'd been questioning his drafting prior to draft day, I think many on here would be more sympathetic to your position. Jack may not be the player many of us were hoping for but he still displays the talent, speed, skills and athleticism that had all recruiting departments salivating. How that translates to AFL level and indeed finals footy remains to be seen but until his development is more than half complete, the supporter in me and many people on this forum will back him in. That doesn't mean we don't cringe when we see him take a short step or yell in frustration when he seemingly doesn't will himself to get to a marking contest. There is a middle position. There is some grey between your assessment of Jack and the overly optimistic defence of his ability that you continue to allude to.

If he makes a meaningful contribution to a Melbourne premiership then we'll all win. Who cares how he compares to others based on where he was picked? The question for me, now that he's drafted and on our list, is whether he makes us a better team when he's in it. Whether we'd pick him number 1 again if we had our time over or whether we should have gone with Hurley or Naitanui is Bigfooty fodder for gleeful West Coast and Essendon supporters. He's on our list, he's improving and has incredible upside. Our job is to support him. Let's get on with it.

I'd be happy if he was in development mode for 199 games and then stars in his 200th with a premiership and a Norm Smith medal around his neck.

I think I'll be leading by 3 or behind by 3 after the first round!

It's been an incredibly sad day. So many have commented on how deeply the loss of Jim has impacted on them. Like so many, I've shaken his hand and shared a few brief footy related words but have really had little to do with the great man on a personal level yet have grieved today like I've lost a close friend. Perhaps this ability to inspire so many outside of his own family and personal sphere, is his greatest gift. I've always respected the Chuck Palahniuk philosophy. He said, "We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will". Jimmy, you've meant so much to so many and achieved so much across so many different fields. So many of us have feared for the future and the life of our footy club and without you it may well have died. I now have no reason to think that the MFC can't live on forever and while this footy club we love is still breathing so will the Jim Stynes name and stories of your feats on and off the footy field will be passed on from generation to generation. RIP Jim. Can I just add that I often walk away from my computer screen after a session on Demonland with a fair degree of frustration with some of the stuff that gets aired here and the constant negativity but reading this thread on and off all day has made me genuinely proud to be a member of this club and this site. The members here have moved me with their sincere outpouring of emotion as we've all been coming to terms with the loss of our spiritual leader. Well done Demonland - you've been all class. Jimmy would be proud.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/compo-picks-triggered-20120319-1vfug.html Looks like we could still go either way.

I'm not comparing teams, I'm comparing rates of player development. My reference to Thompson was merely to suggest that a coach lives and dies by player performance and sometimes a club is rewarded if they show patience with the vision of the coach who has committed to a re-build as Thompson did.