titan_uranus

I understand why Smith is playing but I don't agree with dropping Fritsch before Tyson. If we win, and unless Smith shows some sort of Rance-esque level of dominance, I wonder whether we'll drop him back for Fritsch to return, given both Richmond and Collingwood have smaller forward lines?

Valid concerns, but I'm sure the same concerns were held over the Bulldogs in 2016, who had already had to go to Perth and then had to go to Sydney for their prelim.

Eagles, Chargers, Giants

Good pick up. I didn't see this at the game but on the replay saw it happen with 10 min left in the third, and Daisy subsequently mentions it on the broadcast. We'll need to monitor this one. If Salem's out that is a position we don't have great cover for at Casey (Vince can play half-back but his run and kicking is nothing like Salem's, whilst Hunt's form just isn't good enough to warrant getting back in the side, and J Smith is too slow and tall for that spot).

My late votes: 6 - Viney 5 - TMac 4 - Gawn 3 - Jetta 2 - Hibberd 1 - Salem

They'll already have Kennedy, Darling and Vardy forward. Good luck to them if they send McGovern down there too.

I don't blame him for leaving and given how it turned out for us I'm glad he did. I wonder what he thinks of his career, though. How much success does he gain from walking into a star-studded Hawthorn and winning a premiership in one year when that club was almost certainly going to win it whether he was there or not. The guys he was celebrating with, he'd known for 12 months or less. Some of them had played 10 years together and had built that club into what it was. I just can't believe he looks back on that flag the same way Trent Cotchin or Matty Boyd look back on theirs.

The thought of Collingwood being in a preliminary final is sickening, but to be fair a Richmond-Collingwood prelim is mouthwatering.

The general argument that we can play better is correct. But saying things like we "took a step backwards" is just sensationalist stupidity. We're a young, inexperienced side playing in front of 90,000 people for the second time ever, against a much older and more experienced opponent. To find a way not just to win, but to win by 6 goals, when not playing our best, is an absolute step forward.

Tuned in for the fourth quarter, the team defence was huge. Bernie was huge that quarter, too. Good on him for cracking in and giving it his all.

On a side note, has anyone seen @Wiseblood recently? Hasn't posted since before the Geelong game. Of all of us, he's been the shining light of optimism over the past few years (and yes, sometimes a little too much). But I hope now he's getting to enjoy this finals run with the rest of us.

He's still trying to do too much with some of his field kicking, he often wants to hit the incredible, 1% chance of pulling it off sort of kick, but it either doesn't work or the target isn't ready for it/good enough to make it work. But I thought his defensive work was excellent yesterday and his leading and marking were an improvement. Not sure if there's anything causative in it but don't worry, there's zero chance he gets dropped. It's been covered a lot in the media but that was a massive turning point, only 15 points up at that stage, he misses, and we take it straight down the other end and goal.

I love Bernie but his form pre-injury doesn't warrant a spot in the side. Tyson was poor (would be interesting if someone can confirm he was in a defensive role on Burgoyne? I didn't notice it but I didn't notice Burgoyne either). But I don't think we'll be making any non-injury changes. Bringing in J Smith for Tyson means we're pushing Fritsch up the ground, but we've been playing Fritsch in the back line for weeks now and it's working. I just don't see us making that change mid-finals when our form is peaking. If we're going to drop Tyson, I think it will be for someone like JKH if he plays really well at Casey today and can add more in the midfield than Tyson. But I think we'll ultimately back the 22 in to do it again with an 8-day break and I'd be all for that plan.

Agreed. Hawthorn's supporters are the weakest in the comp IMO. They might have 80,000 members but half of them don't like football and most of them don't go to games. They signed up on the back of the threepeat. What we're seeing now is that our 45,000 members are as passionate and devoted as the supporters of clubs like Richmond and West Coast.

Another incredible night to be a part of. We weren't at our absolute best last night but in some respects, to have won they way we did despite not being at our best is a positive in itself. The second quarter was anti-Melbourne. They had 17 inside 50s for 0.6, we had 7 inside 50s for 3.1. That quarter could have changed the game but to our credit, our defence stood up and we didn't drop our heads despite the game being played in the wrong half of the ground. We kept working hard and we took our chances when we got them. That quarter was huge IMO. And our ability to steady when they drew to 12 points was enormous and speaks of a maturity that our side, as young and inexperienced as it is, has already built. There were some individual standouts but it was again largely an even 22-man contribution. Viney, Gawn, Hibberd, Jetta and TMac all played strongly, but Petracca lifted on his past few weeks, Melksham was always dangerous, Weidman's confidence is there even if he didn't influence the game like last week, Brayshaw battled through his tag, Spargo's score involvements are hugely important, OMac and Frost are getting better (save for that howler of a mistake that led to the Puopolo goal). Our form is peaking at the right time, we're luckily now through two finals without any injuries, and we know we can beat West Coast in Perth. It's surreal to think that we're in a preliminary final, but we are, and I can't wait to see how we go.

Agreed. It's an old take on Melbourne which was relevant 8 weeks ago but less so now. We didn't have the West Coast game on our terms all day, and indeed they fought back and took the lead from us. But we steadied and won. Geelong opened the first quarter with the first 4 inside 50s. We didn't panic, we didn't collapse, we didn't go into any shells, we just steadied and blew them apart. A lot of supporters seems to throw around general MFC-style cliches - we can't play in front of crowds, or under lights, or in prime time, or against experienced sides. We've slowly been debunking each of those, to the point where they're not going to decide the game.

There's a moment in the first quarter where Scott Selwood leads into someone's hip with his head, (rightly) doesn't get a free, then stops and looks at the umpire whilst the play carries on around him. He's worse than Joel. Absolute [censored].

What a night. Our pressure was as god as any side's has been all year. We were tackling hard and they knew it, some of their players were just avoiding contact all night (see, e.g., Ablett). The second quarter felt like the Port Adelaide or Sydney game again, wasting opportunities and then seeing our opponent take it down the other end and kick a goal. But we held them at bay largely, including through the third when they lifted, and we put them away in the fourth. Goodwin mentioned the belief we gained from the West Coast win, and I'm sure that includes how we fought back after they took the lead. I reckon the days of us not believing in ourselves are firmly disappearing. I thought Harmes was incredible last night. His development this year has been as important to our improvement as any other factor, IMO. He does defensive jobs but burns his opponent the other way. Weideman is going to be a star for this club. I didn't think we'd see that sort of performance from him this soon, but he clearly now belongs. His tackle on Dangerfield was delicious. Frost did well on Hawkins IMO. Hawkins got into it when we allowed him to lead up into space. His two marks in the third were both a failure by the defence to plug the hole in front of him. I've seen a few posts about VDB. At the game I thought he was our worst by a mile. Yes, he tackled a lot, but so did pretty much every other player and I thought he made more mistakes than anyone else. Might have just been me though. And finally, I've been to plenty of games with big crowds but whenever Melbourne is involved, we're usually dwarfed by Collingwood/Richmond/Essendon supporters. But to be at a 91,000+ crowd where 80% of us were Melbourne supporters was surreal.

I'll try to join this year - I regularly miss a week or two early and then fall behind/drop out, but I'll try to keep up this time! Titans, Steelers, Rams

We're actually 1-7 (all losses bar St Kilda, we scored under 100). Still, that's 14 games where we scored 100+ points. Who'd have thought that imaginable back in 2015? As to the argument, of the 7 losses two were the Geelong games which we should have won, one was the Port loss (should have won), one was the Sydney game (we weren't terrible) and one was the Richmond game (we were better than them for significant periods). Flip the Geelong games and our record is 3-5 and not that much of an issue. From memory, in the fourth quarter in Geelong they dominated in the middle, and that's where the game turned around. But in general, you're absolutely right - their defence is their strong suit and they'll be banking on mopping up our inefficient inside 50s and turning them into scoring chains. The work we did vs West Coast and GWS to get more efficient going inside 50 and setting up our zone defence to lock the ball in our forward half will hopefully stand up against Geelong. Agreed. Setting up 6-6-6 is still an important tactical change from us, though. We've seen the 7th forward running in off the back of the square at centre bounces pretty much every week until last week. IMO we looked better without it - Gawn and our midfielders are more than capable of generating clearances and inside 50s without that running player and it means we're down 6-7 and not 5-7, as is often the case. We're 3-3 in night games this year, and of the losses one was the Port loss (we should have won) and one was the Geelong loss (we should have won). In the second half of the year alone, we stood up and played solid football against Port (Friday night on the road in hostile territory), Geelong (Saturday night, road, hostile) Adelaide (Saturday night, road, hostile), Sydney (51,424 crowd) and West Coast (55,824 crowd, road, hostile).

Bit of debate in here about whether the top 6 or bottom 6 matter more. Across the home and away season, I think the bottom 6 are as important as anyone else. Teams who fall away and have a weak bottom 6 I think struggle to win enough games through 22 rounds. But when it comes to finals, I think the top 6 become more important. In one game, where everything is on the line, the teams with absolute stardom at the top tend to shine through. As for our bottom 6, assuming Hannan and Viney replace Tyson and Kent, I'd consider them to include JKH, Spargo, Weideman, Hannan, VDB and Frost. These are our fringe players, the ones who have been in and out of the side (VDB due to injury of course, and Spargo's been more in than out). They're good, and can be match-winning (e.g. Hannan vs West Coast, Frost vs GWS), and I think they stand up with most other sides' bottom 6. But there's always room for improvement and in players like JKH and Spargo, plenty of room.

Stanley beat Gawn lasts time, but I don’t think Stanley will be fit for this final. We also get Hibberd and hopefully Viney back, both of whom missed last time. Need to keep their star mids as quiet as possible and take our opportunities when they arrive. They likely can’t be as accurate and as fortuitous as they were in the fourth in Geelong but they mightn’t be as slack as they were for the rest of that game, either.

Sounds a bit like Collingwood vs Melbourne, Round 23 2017. I'm sure some West Coast board last year had a thread hoping for a Collingwood win so they could make it, and someone on there was like "there's no chance Melbourne lose this game to a team with a coach about to get fired".

Wasn't sure where else to put this, but going into the last game we're outright first on the "Quarters Won" ladder: Melbourne - 57 West Coast - 56 Richmond - 54 Collingwood - 52 GWS - 48 Geelong - 48 Hawthorn - 45 Sydney - 45

It's still possible for us to host Geelong or Port, be away to Collingwood or Hawthorn at the G, or be on the road to Sydney or GWS. However, we'll know exactly what the win/loss ramification for us are when the ball is bounced as the games that matter (Port v Essendon, Fremantle v Collingwood, Sydney v Hawthorn, Geelong v Gold Coast) will all have been played by then.