Wiseblood

So any time we get back in to a game of footy it's not because we play well, but because the opposition 'loosen up a little?' You're talking out of your back pocket. I love these supporters who give the club and the players zero credit for anything. It's always because of what the opposition did. When we win it's because the other team didn't play well, but when we lose it's our fault.

If we were a bottom four side I'd agree with that, but we're not - we are off the pace, but not so far off it. The weekend was disappointing and it snuffed out any chance of finals (even though, this year, we're not a finals calibre side), but we can't let a loss on the weekend allow us to be blind to the improvements we have made over the last few years.

That's the way it goes here Chris. One week we have threads slamming the players, the coaches and the development. Win next week and we'll have threads on certain players and their excellent improvement, how we're back in with a slight chance for finals and everyone wants to play here. It's just the way it is.

If you want to shift the goal posts and look at this year in isolation to suit your point then, yes, he probably hasn't improved a great deal this year, although during the first 10 rounds or so he was in stellar form. He has dropped off a little since then but it was only a few months ago that the majority on here (myself included) claimed he was our best player down back. If you look at recent memory, which is the last few years, then there is no argument - he has improved out of sight. And all that has been under Roos, Goodwin and McCartney.

If you compare our side in 2013 and how we played to the 2016 side and how we play then it's clear we have improved. If you can't see it then you are blind. Our culture, training habits, ability to teach and educate the players... it's night and day to what it has been. We have some very good players coming through and the future is bright. Obviously, there are some things that still need to be worked on. Our ability to have a Plan B, play at Etihad and learn to win games that we SHOULD is all part of that. We are better at beating those teams below us (Essendon aside) and our gameplan, mostly, works against all sides. If we had a time machine that took us back a few years to see what we were like then, we would all be down on our hands and knees kissing the feet of Paul Roos and Peter Jackson. As the players get more games into them we should see them eradicate some of those things mentioned above.

Yes - his interrupted pre-season and subsequent ankle injury have hindered his ability to have a consistent impact. The FD clearly rates him highly and, it could be argued, they brought him back a little too soon. He was another who was good last weekend but fell away this weekend. I'd love to see him play more in the middle but, clearly, he hasn't built the tank to do so yet. Might be one who gets dropped this week.

You are selling him well, well short. Not to mention that Clint named people who have improved in recent memory, and recent memory would be the last few years. You would be close to the only person to say that Jetta hasn't improved in that time.

So seeing the writing on the wall in one quarter of one game means only 3 players have improved in recent times? You're kidding yourself.

Hogan has improved. Jetta has improved. Tyson has had a more consistent season. Kent has also had a terrific season to date. Jayden Hunt has improved as many, including myself, believed he was gone at the end of last season. I hate to say it but M. Jones has improved as well. Hogan is on track to kick more goals than last year. Harmes has shown some improvement as well. Billy Stretch is another. You're talking negative rubbish again, Clint.

I'm not deluded. All I said was that I wouldn't put it past us to cause ONE upset. There is every chance we won't do it, but we've had a real dip against some good teams this year (Hawthorn, Adelaide) and we seem to rise to those challenges much better than against teams at around the same level.

Exactly. I understand where people are coming from after a loss - all of a sudden half of our players don't seem up to it, too many are out of form, gameplan doesn't work etc. The truth is that we have improved and we have 6 weeks now to add a few more wins. Will we get to 10? It's a bit of a stretch, but we have both GC and Carlton at the G which are extremely winnable games, while I still won't put it past our side to cause 1 upset out of the final 4 games. Going 3-3 in these final 6 games and ending up with 10 wins is something for the team to aim for.

Great. Did that feel good? We will still win a few.

Gold Coast and Carlton are big chances for a win. We may not get 10 now, but we will still win a few before the season is out.

The 'third man up' at the rock contest needs to be outlawed from the game. The ball ups and throw ins should be contested by the ruckmen, and the ruckmen alone.

You've gone soft.

Show me the proof and I'll agree. I guarantee you won't find much.

Consistently?

Legit discussion? Rubbish. That thread got what it deserved.

I'll agree that, at times, he tries to do a bit too much. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. Once he works it all out he'll be pushing off players and making the opposition look silly. The one thing he does well is that he is always looking to kick. In amongst the many handballs there were times when he would get it, look up quickly and get it forward. Wasn't enough of that today. Still learning for sure, but not cooked.

Disagree, although I would need to listen to it in the context in which it was being given. I have no doubt he is referring to the standards, culture etc that he established in his time there, something we didn't have at all when Roos arrived. Having that already in place allows them to be in a different category for the time being, as they have been able to focus all of their energy in different areas while we've had to make a long and sustained effort to turn around a shambles of a club.

This week, they did. In his presser Roos didn't say we weren't tired or whatever - just that we didn't turn up and that we can't afford to do that. We need to remember that what Roos tells the press is very likely to be different to what he says to the players after the game.

I disagree - there is no point in him taking over now. He continues to work with Roos and then, when the season finishes, he can take the reins and mould the side from the very beginning of the pre-season. While today was disappointing I'm excited to see him take over and to have some of our younger players get another pre-season under their belts. Today was a real let down but that doesn't mean the future isn't bright.

I actually thought he was okay. They chucked him in the middle in the last and he got his hands on it a bit. He is a weapon up forward as well with his marking. I hope Hogan, somehow, gets a fine.

Brayshaw, a few clangers aside, was pretty good. Had the second most contested possessions behind Viney and was good around the stoppages. Clearly he was a few steps off the pace having been out for so long, but he will get better. And I agree. It might be time to get Oliver back in the side.

If Vince had a shocker today, I'd agree. I really would. But he didn't. He still had 34 touches and did some good things. If he was tired, or found it difficult to cover the ground, he wouldn't have had that sort if impact. That's why I find it so hard to buy. Some of younger players were down, but I can't see ANB, Newton etc. making any difference. I just think that, in the context of the game, we lost it in terms of gameplan. It had nothing to do with selection. As Ralphius said above, the players were let down by the coaching group this week.