Wiseblood

No matter how good we become or where we go from here, there will always be tough losses to swallow. True, we've had more than our share, but it doesn't turn me off the club or make we wonder about the money I put into it. I'll always buy my membership and get behind the club no matter how well we are playing.

One quarter. It's one quarter at the moment that is hurting us. In our wins we were able to cover it - we had a poor first term against the Saints and a shocker in the third against Carlton. Against Geelong we had a poor last quarter and we all know what happened yesterday. We are doing most things right - our attacking intent and ability to hit the scoreboard has been good. We are winning more than our share of the football and getting plenty of inside 50s. You could argue that our zone defence is still taking a little time, but it's seemingly these lapses in concentration for a quarter that are hurting us. I could handle 3-1, but we shouldn't have allowed ourselves to get rolled yesterday. When we look at our side we can see further improvement - Neal-Bullen and Salem have flourished, Hunt has taken the next step, Garlett is playing his best footy for the club, Oliver has had an amazing month and so on. When others catch up or get themselves back into form then we'll add further consistency.

Me too, jumbo. I feel as though he shows flashes of his ability during games - the one grab marks, the side steps, his ability to twist out of a pack and kick a goal. We just need that consistency from him. A spell at Casey isn't required though. He is playing well enough to be a part of our best 22.

The burden of proof is on you, jumbo. You're the one who thinks he needs a spell at Casey, so tell us why it should be so.

Changing the focus, are we? I wasn't arguing his possessions, I was arguing your shallow point that Goody is solely to blame for Melksham's recruitment. You're better than that, SWYL. For me, Melksham will take time after spending 12 months out of footy. He's done some good things, and he's also done some not good things. He has plenty of time to settle and we're too quick to sign off on players when they don't automatically do what we want them to do.

Which Roos would have ignored had he felt Melksham wasn't up to it.

For a bloke being asked to play a third tall role, yes. He may not be hitting the scoreboard as much as we would like, but to suggest he needs a run at Casey is a little baffling coming from you jumbo.

Big chance for some players at Casey this weekend - Brayshaw, Pedersen and Kennedy to name a few. Their performance will go along way to deciding the changes for next weekend. You would think Weideman has used up his chances for the time being and will be straight out for Hogan. Will Hibberd be right to go after one week at Casey? Most of us would hope so but we know what happens when you take in a player who is underdone. Hannan is another who might be on the chopping block and if one of Kennedy or JKH can impress then they may get a run as well.

That just says to me that these teams need their stars to fire for them to get anywhere near us. Shut them down and we win. Well, that's how I choose to look at it anyway...

I don't even know anymore, titan. I really don't. Edit - in all seriousness, it was more about Grimes being past it and this revisionist thinking that I hate.

No, he wouldn't. I love this place after a loss. It just gets more and more ridiculous. Here, I can do it too: Cale Morton is stiff....... He would offer more than Dean Kent.

You would need to ask Goodwin about that. There was a reason it was done. What that was is something that only the footy club knows. And I don't think Goodwin has the sort of ego where he feels the need to signal the end of the Roos era to begin his own. He was in charge of many things last year, so it's not like he needed to come in and make sweeping changes. We'll have to agree to disagree. I just think Viney is out of form, nothing more than that.

Jetta was injured throughout the JLT series. It had nothing to do with Melksham.

He is to some degree, but what would the promotion really change? He was already VC and doing lots of leadership on and off the field. Why does changing it from VC to C make that big of a difference? Every player will encounter a slump in form. Viney is experiencing that right now, and it's how he gets himself out of it that counts. I don't think the captaincy has much to do with it at all and, if anything, his injury over pre-season probably has more to do with it than anything else. And go ahead and say it's the coach trying to 'stamp himself'. Did you come up with that yourself, as you've used it ad nauseum for the last hour.

In 2014-2015? I would agree. But not now. We've got a far better list and we are pushing for finals - finals sides don't carry blokes like we are right now. Weideman will be alright in time, but right now he is a liability. He can't impact games in any way and we can't have that in a key forward at the moment.

Once we get Lewis and Hibberd back into the side I could see him playing as a defensive half forward. He's a ripping shot for goal and his turnovers won't be as pronounced.

If Viney didn't think he was ready, then I'm sure he could have knocked it back. Goodwin wouldn't spring it on him and make him captain without consultation. It's a two way street. Plus I still think he is carrying an injury from pre-season. He is certainly not the Jack Viney of the last two years.

That's fair. I think both are capable of hitting targets and also missing some easy ones. I think it comes with experience and assessing all of their options. I've been super impressed with ANB this year, though. Another 24 touches, 5 tackles and a goal. He's taken his chance with both hands and is running with it.

If we want to single out players from the game today, then we could have a thread on half the side. Vince made a blunder, and one he shouldn't have made. I agree with you dazzle. But why aren't we then starting a thread on Weideman? Why not start one on some of the other players who had ordinary games, like Hannan, Stretch, Melksham, etc. etc. I know Vince has made a few blunders in his time, but the loss doesn't lie squarely at his feet and nor should he be blamed for it. Where was our midfield when the game was on the line and they allowed guys like Neale, Fyfe and Mundy to run riot? Plenty of people we can point the blame at for today's loss.

Normally I'd agree mate, but I can't blame anyone for going bananas about a loss like this. It shouldn't happen. On the flip side, as you say, we are 2-2 and we have plenty of time to make amends. Hopefully this loss really cuts them deep and they take a good, hard look at themselves this week. We need to see a big response next weekend, and if anyone rivals us for a soft underbelly then it's Richmond.

Where to begin with this one? Deflating. Frustrating. Vomit inducing. That's a really, really tough loss to take. One of the toughest we've had in years I think. In the past we may have commended the effort, but we know our list and our side IS better than this. We got on top in the second and then got ahead of ourselves. They got on top through the midfield and we couldn't stop the rot, which isn't good enough. I won't blame anyone for going right over the top on this board over the next 24 hours. This is a game we should never have lost and I was right to feel nervous about it going in. But, in the end, we also need to look at the positives (as everyone covered the negatives). Oliver - another 27 touches, 14 contested possessions, 10 clearances and 8 tackles. The kid is a freak. Jeff Garlett is playing his best footy for the club at the moment, while some of the kids like ANB and Harmes also put in good stints. Spencer was good in the ruck and got forward to jag a few goals which were terrific, while Watts again stood up to be counted. Without Hogan we still had 29 shots on goal which shows that whatever we are doing forward of the ball is working. That is something to be pleased about. The problem for us today was what happened in the midfield. Outside of Oliver and, to a lesser extent, Tyson, we allowed their mids to dominate AND hit the scoreboard. Mundy, Neale and Fyfe combined for half of their goals (8) and we simply cannot allow that to happen. We allowed McCarthy too much space as well and we paid dearly for it. You would have thought the days of letting teams kick 8 unanswered goals were behind us. The one thing I want the players to take out of today is for this to REALLY hurt. To cut them deep and to make a commitment to the club to make sure this doesn't happen again. I want them to come out next week against the Tigers and make a statement, and that statement is that this weekend was an aberration. We've got an opportunity to put it right and there are still 19 rounds of footy left, so we have time to make amends. Let's just hope we can do it. Happy wrist slashing everyone.

Nervous. Very nervous. I like the fact that Freo won last weekend as I'd much rather play them with a win on the board already, as we seem to be a side who would hand them their first win otherwise. If we work as hard as we have during the first 3 games then we win, and we can win well. Any drop off and we could be in big trouble. Enjoy the game today everyone, I'll be out all day and checking updates on my phone. I'll miss the 'reasoned' discussion that always occurs in a gameday thread.

Much better second half. Lindsay Thomas cost them the game with his kick that landed on the chest of Johannisen. Should have put it to the top of the square. North are 0-4 and I don't think any AFL fan will feel sorry for them.

At the moment we're playing much better footy than both of these clubs. We've been cleaner, quicker and hunted the ball better to this point. The Dogs are clearly suffering from a large case of 'premiership hangover' and the fact the other 17 clubs are far more wiser about how they play. It will be interesting to see how they respond in the second half and in the coming weeks. Cloke isn't really working for them at the moment, either. He's kicked a few goals but he doesn't have a huge impact outside of that. Edit - North are also winning the free kick count 15-6 at half time. What are the Dogs to do when they don't win the free kick count?

Teams are starting to work the Dogs out and it shows. They stuff around with the ball and then have little to kick to going forward as clubs choke them through the middle of the ground and put pressure on them. It also helps that the umpires are harder on their use of the handball and that they can't duck their way to free kicks as often as they did last year. North are just waiting for them to turn it over and then making it count on the scoreboard. And as SWYL said above, this has been a horrible game to watch. Why couldn't they give this game to anyone but North?