Jarka

Heard Gilchrist discuss this topic on the sports show on Sunday morning. He mentioned that Steve Waugh was presented with almost exactly the same circumstances and appealed, apparently something then happened which delayed play for about half an hour, Waugh had a chance to reconsider his decision and then changed hi smind and called for the batter to return. Apparently said batsman went on to win the game for them. Gilchrist said that he spoke with Collingwood since the game and he regretted his decision, he wished that he had half an hour to cool his emotions and think rationally about the incident. Gilchrist went on to say that some of his more experienced team mates should shoulder the responsibility because they were egging him on, they should have counselled him better.

Aussie has kicked a total of 21 goals for the season so far, Robo has 20 but the next uninjured players are Miller and Green with 15 each. Could Aussie become the first rookie listed player to top his clubs goal kicking award in his first season? Miller is the biggest threat, and it would be great for him to top it, the confidence it would give him would be invaluable for future years but how good would it be if Aussie continued with his good form and topped the list! Can't imagine Green to add too much more, his role as a quarterback style defender is going too well. I know they're not big numbers but it's a good sign that a young guy is contributing so much to the forward line. Go Aussie!

I agree DD re his disposal, his delivery to the forward line was of the highest standard, along with Davey I think they're our two best at passign to someone on a lead.

I'm happy for him to be given the rest of the season to prove himself, it's his career on the line.

I'm sorry rogue that you have to put up with it

What are you babbling about? This is what you accused me of: This is what I actually posted: I clearly state that I think he's doing a good job changing the culture of the club, hell I repeated myself on the issue - I SAID IT TWICE!!!. How you somehow translated that into me thinking that the culture of the club is not important is bewildering. You need to stop arguing just for the sake of arguing, it's pretty obvious how desperate you are to win points off me. Go right ahead and make up some other crap about me but do it in another thread, I'm not goign to bother to reply to this dribble because I'm sure everyone is bored of reading this crap. If you want to debate the issues go right ahead, just don't make stuff up, it's embarrasing

When were the consultants hired?

I agree mo

Yeah, I agree Show me where I suggested anything resembling that I think culture is irrelevant at all? I have been saying that we need a change of culture within the club for several years, I'm surprised that you haven't picked that up. Don't make things in a debate to try to justify your argument, it's poor form and only reflects poorly on yourself. Compromise is ok, well done discussing the topic, I knew you had it in you.

If the players are capable of doign it (your choice of words) why do we need a consulting company? Robertson is injured, true, but that doesn't make any sense because they've promoted others who are also out for the seaon. I'm confused by your argument, it seems to be a dynamic beast that changes with each reply.

And risk droping through to Fremantle? I doubt it. Seriously though I would be completely amazed that a kid would be willing to tank. Let's say this is true and a club has verbally guaranteed he'll get picked, sure great. What happenes if he does a knee or some other serious career threatening injury, result is the club he was talking to decides not to trade him and he slips through the system because he has a serious injury and he now has a reputation of not working hard enough. Another reason why is if it became public at any stage in his career he'd be totally in the shiite, I can't imagine anyone deciding to have that hanging over their heads. The other reason why I don't think he'll tank is ego.

If this is true then why was there the need to make changes to the leadership group halfway through the year?

The cats have been up for a fair amoutn of years, they had one recent 'down' year where they were fine tuning the list, and were lucky to pick up Selwood with pick 7 (from memory), but they've been a pretty good team for awhile.

The other view is that the leadership choice should never be made by the playing group, and there are several reasons to back this opinion up. The players aren't always in the best position to make valued decisions, they don't always have all the information on hand. This year is a good example, others have already pointed at the fact that we had a fair turn over on the list and it would take time for the 'newbies' to work out the real leadership qualities amongst their peers (Green) and not just to choose the high profile bloke (Yze). Sure after halfway through the season they might get it right but at the end of the season we'll probably have just as many leave as last year, so the same thing will happen. It didn't really matter if we got the leadership group wrong this year because we'll finish last but it's a pretty important factor of a footy team's makeup, the club cant afford to go through half a season of 'development' from the newbies. Unfortunately a high turn over of the list is the norm for an AFL team, it's just not practical to go through that learning process every year. The 'changing the culture' line of reasoning is a completely seperate issue to choosing the leadership group, from what I've seen bailey has been doing pretty much everything right since the pre-season in regards to that issue, it's clear that he got the leadership one wrong because there were changes made to it halfway through the season. Bailey is good (imo), he's doign alot to change the culture of the club but he got this one wrong.

Or it highlights a lack of genuine leadership material amongst the senior group.

I'm not expecting to win tomorrow but I'm still happy with the changes. We're now in development mode (and have been for several years, it's just that some of us didn't realise it) and as good as White and others have been they're not part of our future.

Swamp, I agree with pretty much everything you said and I created a thread about it recently. I'm so impressed with what Bailey is trying to achieve and it's a great change to the sameness that the club experienced over the last 6 or 7 years. I understand that it will take time and I'm now happy to wait.

It's funny how different people see different things. I believe he'll be a rebounding flanker or playing on the third tall, I'd be more inclined to get him away from the full back position so he can utilize his strengths more.

After reading this thread I'm going to [censored] myself laughing if it's true, for various reasons!!

There's no question that the club got the leadership issue wrong at the start of the season, well if anyoen wants to argue the opposite then it would have to be pretty damn convincing

Care to stick to the topic? No one cares about your pathetic internet vandetta that you've got going against me, just give it a rest so people can discuss and debate the topic *shakes head* Back to Bate, nightmare, Bate is fast, in a straight line, I'm not convinced he can turn quickly though. I can't view it at work for some reason, does the video show just straight line speed or does it show him weaving in and out?

Dropping Frawley isn't the end of the world for him, he'll get another shot. What would be a worry though is that both Garland and Warnock have overtaken him, something thatdidn't seem possible at the start of the season. He's going to need to work hard to force his way back intot he team, I hope he does.

Coming from the person who thinks Zomer is the natural replacement from Neitz your praise means jack [censored], the poor guy can't even get a regular game for Sandy's firsts and you're happy to put that sort of pressure on him /sigh Bate is a good player, but let's not get carried away and build up unrealistic expectations. If you go down that path you'll just get disappointed with his performances. He has several decent attributes, he works hard and he puts his head over the ball. I'm confident he'll end up a 200+ gamer and be a consistent performer, but he doesn't have the agility of a Steve Johnson or the skill of a Didak, don't try to make him out to be something he isn't. I quoted you in my signature because I think the stuff you come up with is absolutely hilarious, the saddest thing is that you actually believe them. Your comment that two players who have spent a big chunk of the year playing for Sandy's 2nd's are the replacements for David Neitz (who holds both the games and goals record and has been awarded with all Australian selection and won a Coleman medal) shows your lack of knowledge of the game and our list. Added to that is the fact that you come onto this site and pretend that you know what you're talking about just increasing the amusement factor. I'f that something that makes you proud then good for you, I'm happy that you're happy that someone is paying you some attention.

Good thread minister. Even though we're last I really like the way that Bailey is developing the list and how he is trying to change the (dare I say the word) 'culture' of the club.

hehe