stevethemanjordan

Am I correct in thinking he is eligible for NAB cup matches next year?

Forgive the late reply timD, I'll bite... Gysberts finds the ball. I have never refuted that so I'm confused by your first point. Secondly, yes, as petty as it may seem, I find it agonisingly annoying and frustrating that so many supporters, (not just of the MFC but any club), can consistently talk up players on their list on the back of a draft pick number or a handful of games in which a player hits above 20 possies. Examples being Gysberts and Morton. I have not based my opinion on Gysberts from the first couple/few games he played in which we saw some promising signs. I have based my opinion of the guy from his first game with us up until this point in time. Obviously that includes the time in which he has been injured etc. The severity of these injuries are another argument altogether... There's a reason my opinion of Gysberts is such a conservative one Tim. Can you guess why? Because I haven't based it on those first few games he had! Makes sense doesn't it?! Never have I appointed myself as the 'guardian of well thought-out arguments'. That is a label you have given me. Can you see the irony in your post Tim? It's becoming quite humorous now... As for the definition of 'inside mid'. That is another accusation you have made of me.. (I thought your post was meant to be pointing out my accusations of others?) I never defined what an 'inside mid' is, because people have varying interpretations of the word. I simply said that it was a confusing word in context with what the poster was writing about, because my understanding of the word is as follows: a player who's strength is winning the contested pill. That being the basis. Better/more valuable ones will also possess strengths in other attributes. For example McKenzie is a an 'inside mid' and so is Josh Kennedy. Who is better? Why? Your argument is as bad as mine. I know I say some things out of anger and frustration on demonland which may well be irrelevant in your mind. But this is a football forum, and deep down, I care about my fellow Melbourne supporters. To put it simply, it hurts me to see MFC supporters so positive and upbeat about young players who happen to be top draft picks of their year, only to be traded away, delisted etc a few years later. I know it happens to all clubs. But given the fact over the last however many years we have had the worst leaders/experienced crop of players within the AFL to teach/inspire the youth, a questionable recruiter in BP, a couple of coaches who didn't do us any favours, all of this culminating in a culture in decline. No wonder we are seeing major changes at the MFC. I love you all... (Even you Rhino...)

More power to Neeld. Have never rated Gysberts as highly as many do here, and obviously the FD don't rate him all that much either! Hopefully it will shut some of the 'pro every young player on our list' types on this forum. Time to shift to a new level of conciousness gang. Not every young player on our list that has been a top 20 draft pick is going to be the next 'star'. Let the overhaul continue. (Hopefully some supporters will be apart of it also..)

Demonland is amazing. No really... It's amazing.

Whilst winning your own ball is important, I would say that using it is of more importance to the MFC at this present time. The MFC need mids who can win their own ball, have a turn of speed, have fantastic footskills and can kick goals. Jimmy Toumpas is the one we want purely because his ability to win contested ball is better than Wines' acceleration and kicking ability... Jimmy is the complete package but I reckon he'll be gone by 3. Fingers crossed.

We barely have five players each week who get more than ten kicks because we rarely have possession of the ball. Obviously the better we get as a side, the more possessions and numbers our players will have. Maybe accumulator was the wrong word. What I mean is that we have a number of mids who don't have a problem getting first touch within contests, and so using Gysberts 'famous' first two or three games of his career as a measuring stick is ridiculous. I feel as though supporters base their opinion of him from those first few games. It's not like he had the ball on a string, was using it really creatively and making sure his possessions were damaging. To me he just showed that he has a knack of winning the ball at the contest without much else. He is not damaging by foot. He is not an aerial threat. He is a shocking runner for an AFL player let alone a midfielder. He lacks speed. He has a very light frame. He doesn't seem to hunt the ball or show physicality around the contest. They're all worrying signs for a former pick 12 and a supposable Pendelbury prototype.... Demonlanders, you gotta realise that from time to time, (and in our case, history has shown a lot of the time) that you can get draft picks wrong. The MFC need high quality midfielders that show they have several strong attributes. Please name me one other football skill related attribute Gysberts possesses other than his supposed ball finding ability at the contest. Gysberts had 26 and 27 disposals in his first two AFL games and in his third game against the pies he had 10. His first game was against Geelong at skilled stadium. I'm sure a lot of you will agree that the Geelong midfield would have taken advantage of the fact that there was a skinny first gamer running around in the midfield and I'm not sure anyone would have taken too much notice of him. Food for thought. My curiosity only arises because so many people seem to rate him so highly on the back of not much. It confuses me greatly.

What is this 'talent' people keep speaking of? Please. He found it easy to accumulate possessions during his under 18 year. His first few games within the AFL were high numbered games and of course supporters start licking their lips thinking we have yet another 'star' in the making. We have enough accumulators who have plenty more strings to their bow. Gysberts has literally shown no other strong attribute. I do not rate him at all.

Oh, another beauty..

That right there Grun Dee, is some seriously witty humour...

Your constant backing of the decision made to draft Cook at 12 is entertaining to say the least. Stop with the excuses. Please. Save yourself.

Who in the world would trade a pick 11 from a couple of years ago for a pick 48 now? That's absurd and I hope to god there is no truth to it. I don't rate gysberts highly, but that's still a ridiculous trade.

It's called assessment and opinion. You have chosen to believe that Wines is the 'easy' call. That's your opinion. I'm sure many of the draftees tick our requirements and Wines looks to be a solid player. Questioning his disposal by foot is not being negative. It's questioning his disposal by foot.... How many others around around the top 10 have similar attributes but better kicking skills? They're the questions I am asking. You have taken offence to a post I made directed at your 'inside mid' comment. Pick 4 is a not so easy call, and I'm sure the MFC recruiters share the same philosophy.

Absolute disgrace of a pick. Makes me sick.

Selwood has decent kicking skills. Please stop comparing a player like him to Wines. Nobody has a great insight into Wines kicking although from the limited vision on youtube it doesn't seem to be amazing. How does Wines compare to Mayes and O'Rourke as a 'complete' midfielder? Do they have better pace or kicking skills? Can anyone shed some light?

Agreed re leaving it to the recruiters. There will be no disappointment from me if Wines is indeed taken at pick 4, although I would be disappointed if he was taken ahead of Toumpas. Let's see how it plays.

This seems to be a recurring theme amongst supporters on demonland and it's beginning to frustrate me. There needs to be more of an understanding and clarity to the definition 'inside' mid. I'm assuming you mean all the players you have listed above have the ability to win contested ball and that's why you call them 'inside' mids? Do you know that Magner is great at winning contested ball but he doesn't have any other attributes that put him anywhere close to Mitchell, Lewis or Hodge? Why? Not only can they win contested ball, but they have elite kicking skills amongst other standout attributes. The reason Hawthorn are such a great side is because most of their playing list have the ability to win contested ball and can also kick the ball extremely well. One cannot compare the likes of McKenzie, Moloney, Magner, Couch, Bail, Nicholson etc to those three Hawthorn players or even three quarters of Hawthorns list. They are simply too one-dimensional. Mitchell when in congestion for example, has an incredible ability to fire out a handball (with his left or right hand) to a player in the most space or in the most dangerous position. Mitchell barely has two seconds assess where his teammates are in congestion, picking one who has the most space or is in the most advantageous position, executing the skill so that his teammate barely breaks stride, all under heavy physical pressure. It's a pleasure to watch and that's only one example of something that separates mitchell from many others. I won't go into Hodge and Lewis but you get the idea. Saying that you can't have too many 'inside' mids is a very confusing and naive comment. At the minute Melbourne have a whole bunch of mids who have no trouble at all when it comes to jumping on the ball and winning it. It's the next step that is the worry. The continual improvement of Nathan Jones' ability to hit targets makes my heart warm. He has added another dimension to his game and is becoming more and more of a well rounded mid. Arguably our most important mid going into next year. Sylvia, Trengove, Grimes and Howe are four that must come on next year for us to climb the ladder again. All have the ability and attributes to become fantastic mids for our club. Sylvia needs to find the fire and desire to become the player we need him to become. Trengove needs to become even fitter and work on his acceleration. Grimes needs to stay on the park, have a full pre-season. Howe needs to continue on from the good season he had this year. These four players plus Jones are our nucleus. They can all win their own ball, can use the ball well and have other attributes to their game that make them dangerous. Marking, spreading, goal kicking etc. These are the kinds of mids we need! Not Magner, Moloney Couch, McKenzie, Bail, Nicholson etc. The definition of 'inside' mid to me is a Magner, McKenzie Moloney or Couch. A player that is one dimensional. A player who can win their own ball, are relatively one paced and can't do much else. I want multi dimensional mids! Now back to the thread title and player in question, Mr Oliver Wines. I have heard he is tough, I have heard he is a brute that loves winning the contested ball, I have heard that he can even go forward and take a mark, but I haven't heard that he can kick. From the vision I have seen, it seems as though he is effective enough but not as good as Viney, (who is by no means elite). Should that be a determining factor? For me, absolutely. We need players who can use the ball just as much as we need players who can win it. ('inside' mids). In fact, we need both. Lets call them multi dimensionals. I am very happy with Viney, the look of Barry and obviously Hogan looks promising. I want pick 4 to be a star mid with several strong attributes to his name and kicking MUST be one! Go dees.

Wines whilst he seems a great inside player, doesn't have great kicking skills... I really want players whose kicking is just as much of a feature as any other aspect of their game. Is that too much to ask for? Stringer seems like a complete package. I wouldn't mind picking him up at 4.

Rohan Bail is not an AFL footballer. He is an average player in a very average side. Can run and that's his strength as a footballer. If we are going to get better as a side, we need to squeeze blokes like him out eventually. The only reason he plays is because our list is absolute rubbish.

Out of 46 posts on this thread, I haven't read one that says something along the lines of, "I hope we draft some players with elite kicking skills who have an influence on the games they play in." EIther that or some players on our list greatly improve their own kicking skills. All I want for Christmas...

I'm hoping Neeld and co are wanting players who can use the ball as much as I am wanting them. (This guy seems like one) We need an injection of highly skilled users via trades/FA and the draft. I can't think of a side that turns the ball over more often than us. Makes me want to cry.

The Oakleigh Chargers have again made the TAC Cup Grand Final which is being played this Sunday. Does anybody know if Jack Viney is playing in it? Is he eligible? Thank you in advance.

Christ.

Please answer me the following: Does critiquing a Jack Watts performance equate to 'bagging him out'? Was his lack of intensity in yesterday's game, (and in most games for that matter) attributed to this ankle injury he had? Language can unfortunately be very limiting when it comes to interpretation, measurement and definition. Please define what you mean by, 'He's been good this year'. What is 'good'? Please wake up. Please open your eyes. Please.

Please tell me that was a sarcastic dig at some of the poster's on here... Please...

I'm going to give Jordy a copy of eckhart tolle's 'A new earth'. From my perspective, he walked into the MFC not really knowing or understanding the physical requirements and work that needs to be done to make it as an AFL footballer. Like many young players. Unless the flick switches in his egotistical head over the break and he comes back to pre-season ready to work, I don't want him on the list. Jordy cruised through the Vic metro carnival, got drafted at pick 11, had 20+ possies in each or his first few games and thought, 'this gig is pretty easy'. And, of course, demonland goes crazy and the comparisons to Scott Pendlebury begin! Yes Jose, fitness can be solved, but players like Jordy need first develop the desire and will for it. He needs to want to get the best out of himself and not just cruise through. So far, injuries aside, he has not shown the application and his other attributes aren't nearly good enough to give him a game even without the required fitness base. Look at Jeremy Howe for instance. Obviously marking is his best attribute, so even without having an elite level midfielder's fitness base, he still plays every week, mostly in the midfield. He tackles, blocks, marks and kicks well. Jordy on the other hand does not have a standout attribute apart from his ability to win the ball in close but we already have too many guys who hold that attribute themselves and are miles ahead of Jordy in terms of fitness. I don't rate Jordy nearly as highly as some on here, including you Jose. He hasn't and doesn't show anything other than being able to win the ball in close. He is still not strong enough one on one and at the moment he is pretty much useless when the ball spreads. I want natural hard working AFL players. I want players who have great skills and a desire to work hard to get the best out of themselves. Neeld shares this mantra, and I can't wait for the offseason to begin.