waynewussell

Just adding two posts I made at Demonology to show more dissent with Ash's rose coloured view "Saw the whole thing. There was no pushing and shoving happening at the time. The players from both teams were walking toward their respective 3/4 time address positions. I saw Lloyd walking in an unusual direction TOWARD the stream of Melbourne players, from behind and to their left. When he got quite close (already shoulder to shoulder with a few Dees) he accelerated forward and to the right and bumped Carroll hard from behind. You could describe the action as a lunge after several quick steps (into a jog NOT walking) I immediately said to my Essendon mate that he would be suspended for that." "The footage shown on 10 late news is an edited version of the initial scuffle which broke out after Lloyd missed the after the siren shot on goal. Carroll obviously paid out on him and he cracked it. Yes there was a lot of pushing and shoving at this point but this was not the reportable offence. That happened after the players were separated. 10 news reiterated that the incident was not captured on the live game footage, but was captured on the fixed camera behind the goals. The edited footage shown was NOT from the fixed camera."

Good work 4Dees, you make sense when others are spinning out of control. Keep this sharp analysis up and you may be on the coaching shortlist

$20 from me and $10 for each goal on debut

deanox, a refreshingly detailed analysis. Well done. It looks to me that you either were a very astute observer at the game or you watched the replay carefully. Either way, I commend you. As for an answer, I would need to watch the replay to comment on your observations (yes, I recorded it!). I limited my 'at the game' observations to bad decisions made by individuals. - Brown's appearance was going to be pivotal to the Tigers showing. That he got the ball so often in the first 10 minutes set the team and the crowd on fire. Bell was chosen as his opponent and was not up to the occasion. I would have looked to someone to enhance the theatre of the moment... Whelan... Pickett, who was trying to make his own statement and whose hardness (you know what I mean) would have played on the emotions of Brown (who must have had some doubts). - Robbo's first long lead and mark out on the fifty lead to a kick across to a point 15 -20 metres in the pocket rather than at the sticks. This was obviously a pre-ordained place to put it rather than a considered attempt to put it where we were... end result, only Polack and another Tiger there to take the mark. - Our kicking into the forward fifty in the first 20 minutes reeked of "Neita's not there, I better not go direct and long" mentality, which meant forwards were making 1, 2 & 3 leads that were not honoured. The Tigers, on the other hand acknowledged every loose man opportunity, whether the kicker could make the distance to goal or not. This made our sleepy backmen look like clowns. End product... DEMORALISATION of the weak minded. - To finish with, here's a theatrical analysis of the body language of Bruce, Robbo and Yze at Brock's selection as skipper for the night... "WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT!"

Its good to read some calm analysis when the headless chooks re-surface. Well done on a considered opinion amid the 'sack everybody' frenzy that permeates these boards at the moment.

His definition of fickle supporters was those who don't make the effort to get along to games when the going gets tough. By definition all those that were at the 'G' last night are worth listening to. He is right about our hard core group, the smallest in the comp... and have been since the 70's.

Davey was way more effective than Bruce, Frawley, Sylvia, Yze, Bell & Robbo

Carroll - not switched on Bizzell - poise under pressure Bell - came back well Bate - better second half Wheatley - one of best Yze - unable to produce Pickett - several good hits Davey - clever as ever Green - lowered his colours White - several good signs Johnson - not our worst Holland - GAVE US SOMETHING Petterd - still got ball Frawley - often chasing arse McDonald - a game competitor McLean - out of touch Godfrey - main possession winner Sylvia - a few highlights Robertson - it didn't work Jones - tried to lift Ward - better than Bell Bruce - didn't step up

Its just that some of us have been watching the Dees long enough to know that Bruce was a very reliable kick for goal in the first half of his career. We aren't nailing him at the moment because we see it as a fixable problem. It is obvious that he still contributes way more in other areas than most blokes going round.

Nup! Wrong again Walls, second right footer by Godders this year. Just like the Bozo was wrong when analysing frees against Rocca after the delayed replay. It was obvious in two of the 'contentious' frees against Rocca that he had a fist full of Holland's jumper trying to hold him off when in front, but Walls is blind to the bleeding obvious!

Deano74... love the sentiment, have the utmost respect for Daniher, but let's wait and see how we go from here. If we win 8 or more games from here I would say yes. If we only win 2 or 3, I would say its time for a change!

A great read WJ, I know Joni well and I was there with my son on Sunday. We got a lot of pride back in the final qtr, let's hope our team did as well!

they are only excuses if they aren't accurate explanations of what went wrong. I'd say four or five of those listed are, in fact, accurate indicators.

Bizzell is strong overhead, and is a very good kick... short or long. Injuries have ruined his past few years, but I remember many games, including finals where he continually repelled the opposition. I also have vivid memories of miraculous saves, unbelievable spoils and selfless acts. To keep referring to him as unskilled and unaccountable indicates a lack of understanding and insight.

unaccountable in this context is the language of yesteryear's 1 on 1 philosophy. The game has moved on. We have other roles allocated to backmen that take them a long way from their so-called opponent. It is not unusual, particularly if the ball is turned over to find that forwards are metres clear running toward their own goal. I'm sure the coach, having allocated roles in the back half, has a much more accurate account of who has been un-accountable. To label a third man up, sweeper, re-director un-accountable because his 'opponent' popped up with an uncontested possession is out of date. Having said that, I prefer the 1 on 1 days to some of the basketball we see today. Give Bizzell credit where credit is due, and rate him according to the style of back-play popular in the 21st century (at which he excells!)

Rhino, I think your databank has already been partially erased. Do you think Bizzell's 3 or 4 years of mediocre performances include the 12 months out with injury OR the 2004, 2005 era. I'd like you to name the 20 plus games (for surely that would be the minimum to gain 'databank' status). Stop blowing your own horn and talk sense. You may not like the way Biz goes about it but to call his efforts for the club mediocre is just plain dumb analysis. Perhaps you should acknowledge that you had retired him too early. This can be the result of mediocre appraisal of a players contribution... Come to think of it, you may be building your own database there Rhino...

The Biz did what he has always done... best reader of the ball in our backline, most elusive of our defenders, brilliant decision-making under pressure, picks out targets in traffic. As courageous as they come, a massive plus for the recruiting team, and no suprise to those who have watched his whole career at MFC.

I believe that CJ has been given more opportunities than Biz in the past 12 months, he just hasn't taken advantage. He has skill, he has reasonable speed, he has reasonable size... so what is the missing ingredient? As for Biz... will he be given enough ground time to proove to those with short memories that he is a very good AFL player? Too old!!! I don't think so... Too slow, makes up for it by being elusive and an excellent kick. I think it is Biz who has been hard done-by in selection, and who is out of favour... NOT CJ!

Bizzell has current VFL form... CJ doesn't to the same degree Bizzell has a track record... CJ doesn't Bizzell has had limited opportunities... CJ didn't make the most of his Bizzell is a good 'third up' option... CJ isn't Bizzell has proven courage at this level... CJ, Hmmmm!!!

Given that Robbo and possibly McLean will be back this week, I would rest Dunn (and I am a fan) for Newton against the Kangas.

Kee Dee...best post I have read for ages, and I read a dozen times a day. The best thing that could happen now that we are getting key players back is to return to a game plan that suits the 'G'... Yep, last year's method, if our players can remember it. I agree with the analysis about lack of muscle but it looks worse when the endeavour is low. Our previous two games were good. I don't think we have lost all grunt. Players such as Neitz, Jones, Sylvia, Bate, Johnson, Bell, Robbo (expect return), Wheels & Rivers (hopeful of return) are quite capable of delivering in the muscle department.

Ferguson is a better footballer than Holland and Warnock. He has suffered through injury at important times in his career. He is perceived as being too slow for AFL football. He has also been extremely effective on occasions, is as courageous as they come, knows how to spoil from sometimes impossible positions and gives his all. I'm happy to see him given a go in place of the only bloke who should keep him out of this team.

1. David Neitz 2. Brock McLean 3. Jarrod Rivers 4. Cameron Bruce 5. Aaron Davey 6. James McDonald 7. Travis Johnstone 8. Matthew Whelan 9. Russell Robertson 10. Adam Yze 11. Jeff White 12. Nathan Jones 13. Brad Green 14. Matthew Bate 15. Nathan Carroll 16. Colin Sylvia 17. Brent Moloney 18. Simon Godfrey 19. Byron Pickett 20. Clint Bartram 21. Daniel Bell 22. Ricky Pettard 23. Nathan Brown 24. Lynden Dunn 25. Daniel Ward 26. Paul Johnson 27. Brad Miller 28. Ben Holand 29. Ryan ferguson 30. Clint Bizzell 31. Paul Wheatley 32. Matthew Warnock 33. Chris Johnson 34. Mark Jamar

It's a beautiful thing! Jonesy can't be too far away (actually preferred his game to Rick's on Sunday).