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All footy journos are the same. They pick the best team to slide, one of the close contenders to win it and the middle and bottom teams to stay where they are. Jake predicted we would finish 9th in 2021. Literally where we finished in 2020. Brilliant insight. His opinion is worth less than that of us random posters on here - bias be damned. Not a single journo picked us to rise even to top 6 in 2021, which shows how little attention they pay to the details - it was all there to see if they looked closely enough, irrespective of the luck we had with injuries. The clairvoyants are now saying Carlton to rise and Hawthorn to fall - literally a continuation of JLT form. Oh how easy a job it must be. Don't get me wrong - I agree on Carlton but for different reasons - no pundit or journo has spoken about their vastly improved body language & team unity that was on show against us. There was a lot of connection, support & selflessness. It wasn't until we added these elements that the other pieces clicked. They'll do Ok. I don't have the time to watch all the teams that closely & only watched Carlton because they were playing us. Other teams may be similarly poised. But the journos are paid to watch it & still not one can really nail some out of the box predictions.

Getting a little fraught in here. We've all forgotten what losing was like! All things told it's not a bad thing - touched up in the middle, taught some umpiring lessons, got miles in the legs, no injuries, exposed some depth, and still only had a narrow loss. I'm glad we didn't pinch it (although Carlton fan's devastation would have made my week - they celebrated this win hard). We were never going to just Romp to a 2nd flag. We have a good shot but it's going to be a hard journey and we'll need luck as we had last year. Let's see how it folds out. We have a strong team, can expect close to a win every week - that's a great thing and it should be a fun year of going to the footy.

A couple people jumped on me in the pregame thread for suggesting we would be in trouble with a few outs. Really does go to show - having a consistent team, no injuries - how fortunate we were last year. The backline was unaccountable tonight (a halfback line of bowey, hunt and harmes/brayshaw should never be used in season, especially when Smith is there roaming and ball watching...still think he is wasted down back) and what it showed was that our mids are perhaps sometimes bailed out by our amazing defence when at full strength. Maybe they're not as accountable as we thought they were. Maybe Carlton's midfield is just very good. Hard to tell. What is clear is that Hibberd and rivers are 5x better defenders (let alone rebounders) than bowey or hunt. Salem - he's a whole other level. Don't underestimate what he gives us from behind the ball - truly our quarterback, lifts composure of the whole team by finding targets when no one else does. Creates time and space for the team. And he's tough and accountable to boot. In our top 5 most important players without a doubt. Don't forget as soon as he was out last year - we lost our first game to Adelaide. Its an even comp, lots of strong players in lots of teams - doesn't take much to tip the scales As I said, this year will be harder than last

You're right, we'll never lose again. What was I thinking? ... I'd forgotten what a circle jerk it could be in here; apparently pointing out that we had luck and no injuries last year, and that we might not be so lucky again whilst the opposition may improve, is an affront to the psyche of our supporters. I never said we were crap - far from it, rather that sterner tests may be coming. We will get an early (albeit inconsequential) preview tomorrow night with 5 of our premiership 6 defence out of action. Don't be surprised if you don't like what you see. No Salem alone changes our ball movement and setup enormously. 'we won by a lot last year, therefore we will keep winning this year' 'we could do the job even with our 2nd stringers in' 'other teams will improve, but we will of course improve more' Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? In no world are Joel Smith, Hunt, Daw, Weideman, Baker and Chandler walking into the best sides of our closest competition. Dunstan spent half of last year out of a bottom 8 side. Our depth is good - they can't all be stars - but we're one of 18 strong teams and we are not infallible. All that said, I'd love for you to be right and quote the hell out of me after Grand Final Day. We have as good a shot as any team, but it's a long year with a lot needing to go right. That's all I'm saying.

Winning one is hard enough, but this year will be much harder in my opinion. Our defensive positioning/game plan and sagging back seemed to catch most teams off guard last year - we can be sure they will all have detailed plans to beat it this year. Add in COVID outs, a few injuries presuming we don't miraculously avoid them again, and who knows. Most teams rely pretty heavily on their top 6 and we are no exception. A long injury or three to the group of Oliver, Petracca, Gawn, Salem, Lever or May would make it tough. Personally, I think we still look very vulnerable to very tall/resting ruck forwards (all of the big bags kicked against us last year fell into this category) and expect a number of teams to capitalise on this whilst also backing their half backs to handball through and around our speed forwards. Collingwood game last year shows the blueprint. As amazing as we were we had our fair share of luck last year. Winning one without it (or maybe without as much of it) is the test from here on out.

KM doesn't have a great track record. Watches a lot of footage/highlights, combines with stats and doesn't actually watch anyone off the ball live. Plus, I'm not convinced he understands what's important in the modern game. Qualifies most of his judgements and is generally just overly verbose, contradicts himself and....annoying. If you couldn't tell, I'm not a fan! He was first to the scene and works hard, but that's about it. ESPN threw him a bone to loss lead their AFL readership from Big Footy. Never liked Kossie, said you could get higher production out of a....Jack Mahony. Yep. My wife took one look at Kossie in the U18 SA game and knew. This kid looked at a stat sheet and saw he didn't kick enough goals Ignore everything the fool says Rant over

It was actually Viney who won both clearances - first with a handball to trac, and then a toe poke into the Path of Jackson (good thing he did this too as both Jackson and Oliver had run ahead of the stoppage!) I will remember it for Petracca and Oliver but let's not forget who got the hard ball

Scrolling in bed with the wife asleep, you and Jaded have moved me to some silent tears here rpfc. Very well said. Nagging hurt is the perfect description. I've nothing to add other than what I said to my 65 year supporting dad on the post game video call...who's to say that this would have happened if this was played at the G? If there had been crowds all year? Its happened the way it's happened and couldn't have happened any other way. We're lucky to have something bringing us so much joy and we're lucky to have this forum of kindred spirits. Reading this thread and hearing of the happiness, the joy, the disbelief, the emotion - it's almost been as good as watching the game!

Scrolling through this thread and the Demons Twittersphere has been a genuine pleasure. I wondered if I was alone in tearing up (only a few, I'm saving them yet) as max celebrated but from what I've read there were many locked down households shedding a tear tonight. Amazing what sport can do. Whilst I don't think the result actually mattered that much (could absolutely be wrong), the manner of the comeback, the fact it was Max having botched it before, and the memory of Tuohy in 2018 (still the most painful loss I can recall. I cannot forget it) was an amazing confluence of events that pushed me over the edge. If we achieve nothing else from here on in, I'm so pleased as Dees fans we were able to have that moment. Despite what the Blues, Bombers, Saints and Tigers (pre '17) fans may claim re. Lack of success, no other supporter base has been through what we have. From the years of beltings to the rays of light being crushed (Jim, Jesse, Jurrah the most notable), to dysfunctional management to all-time worst coaches to bizarre sponsor fiascos, to having no respect in the office, the schoolyard or at the dinner table, it's a miracle we're alive (and now, more than kicking) In my 30 years I've watched other fans enjoy these moments, enjoy these years of success. It never seemed to eventuate for us but it did tonight and it has this year so far. Enormously cathartic. Whilst we don't get to have the 'home QF', the crowd, the fanfare of what (hopefully) is to come, I feel lucky to have enjoyed this season when so many Dees fans no longer with us waited and waited for these days never to come. Doing this without my dad, brother and sister locked down in various parts around the state, or without the swell of Dees fans we all so enjoyed in 2018, is not the way I pictured it. But I'm going to enjoy being the minor premier and at the pointy end of the finals as much as I can. It may never come around again.

Includes the last quarter - they were on the bench when the lightning struck. Nothing to it.

I also like Toby and we know Jack has limitations but this is a pretty amazingly bad call. Not only has Jack played many important roles over the journey and has been our physical barometer, but Toby isn't an inside mid at all. I agree he's eye catching when he's there for Casey but there's more to inside midfield work than the odd burst of speed and acceleration. The absolute peak possibility here is that Toby follows the Shai Bolton school of development as a small forward who develops over a period of years into a very smart HFF/part time onballer. But he hasn't even cracked the team yet on a regular basis... Plus, he can't kick to save himself. I'm so tired of people attributing a high level of skill to Toby seemingly because of his appearance/manner/heritage. He's a shocking shocking field kick and misses more targets than Viney.

A word of warning on the 'third youngest team' thing - that's quite a bit of a misnomer when a lot of our success relies on May (maybe 2 years left at best), gawn (maybe 2 or 3 but he's had a heavy few years), Hibberd (1 year after this probably). They are three key cogs we absolutely cannot replace any time soon. Arguably in the best spot in the ruck with Jackson - but May in particular and Hibberd are irreplaceable and there is no-one in the twos pushing for their spot. Maybe Bowey for Hibberd, but that's not like for like IMO. Bowey being groomed for the Salem QB role. We all know May is irreplaceable and the window with him at the peak of his powers is closing. Unfortunately, another year or two to mature might be what trac, Oliver, Jackson, rivers and kossie need, but by then it might be too late. The list demographic challenge is very real.

It's an interesting situation - I think a few of us need to take a deep breath. Fact is every club other than the Bulldogs are looking at us are envious of our position. Until next week at least. I think the combination of the lack of any large margined dominant wins, together with our fragility as a supporter base, is creating this sense of panic that really isn't justified. Personally I've never had a season where we just...keep on winning - I think it's natural that then when we lose, we get dramatic and think the wheels are falling off. We've known nothing else for our football supporting lives. The evidence says we've met every serious challenge this year under a variety of different circumstances -beat red hot Sydney despite playing poorly ourselves ('winning ugly') -reversing momentum against one of the best front running aggressive teams in the comp (Brisbane) -going after the wounded champion (Richmond) -systematically dismantled the gameplan and contest skills of our nearest competitor (WB) Whilst we beat Geelong, there were missing a host of their best players and I'm not sure we'd fare as well against their full strength 22. Unfortunately those who have led the charge - Petracca and Clayton - are immature. There are weeks or months (apparently) where they lose focus, lose application and lose consistency. The forward line is also generally very immature. It's no coincidence that Kozzie's drop in form has corresponded with the team's drop in form. Barring injuries to May and Lever, our defence will keep us in most games. The rest will turn on the mood and attentiveness of Petracca and Oliver. Think about the week to week consistency we get out of May, Lever (who is a very old young man), Hibberd, Gawn, Tom Mac, and the quietly mature Langdon. If we had that sort of consistency of output from our prime movers - Petracca, Oliver, Harmes, Kozzie - we'd look a lot more like a premiership team. The forward line needs work in general but I honestly think that lack of maturity is the problem. We just can't rely on our game changers to show up on any given week or even in any given quarter. We can fiddle with structure, we can add BB in, etc etc....I can't help thinking that is all academic. Our fortunes will rise or fall on the mental positioning of our prime movers come finals time.

Some of you need to remember where we've come from I've no idea why some of you think the team defence was off - i thought the adherence to the gameplan was at season high levels. It was evident extremely early in the 1st when they just couldn't move the ball and continued through the night. A lot of their goals came from stringer breaking lines (not many can do what he does, so I'm comfortable with that) or individual errors from our players. Fact is we kept an extremely high scoring team that has been on a hot run of form, to a very low score. And we did it happily letting their mids get heaps of the ball. Agree with the poster who suggested that whilst we looked like we lacked a target and Weid/BB may have been able to add to our score, I don't think we would have been able to defend them the way we did if another big tall was in the fwd line, given the dynamism of their back half. Defence first wins again. I thought the horses for courses selection in that regard was terrific. It also felt like a frustrating win because of the inaccuracy. Most other weeks that's a 5 goal win and it would have been shut down much earlier. There are weeks where that happens and we fought through it and won anyway Arguably up there with our best wins for the year. Wasn't pretty and wasn't free flowing so it doesn't feel like it, but I think on reflection it was. Koz will be fine, needs feedback to focus on simple things but he's still learning. For a 2nd year player the impact he and LJ and Riv have our team is immense. They'll all have ups and downs - ATM LJ is definitely up! (Despite the brain fade)

Absolutely Love Oliver but he's such a bloody head case. Wins it like no other and gets clear looks to put it i50 - proceeds to stop, pivot, handball sideways or backwards to players on their back foot. Needs to grow up - gawn had 4 cracks at him tonight A brilliant player, brilliant - but childish. Would love choco to mentor as the kid has no ceiling

Fair enough - wasn't referring to you directly, moreso the general vibe of these weekly threads where collectively we seem to have a laugh about opposition fans thinking they're a chance against us. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for deriding them for being Essendon more generally as drug cheats etc - but I personally don't blame any of them (nor the Pies fans last week) for being optimistic against a team that has done nothing but let us down for the best part of 10 years This week's thread has actually been far more humble than the Collingwood one and K2P you're right in that you never said we cant lose it. Apologise for the misrepresentation

Hilarious and ironic that some accuse them of overconfidence....much like they did the Collingwood fans that thought they had a chance Surely we still realise we can lose to anyone on our day with our only losses coming to bottom 4 teams?

The goal was great but far from the most impressive thing.... rewatch the 4th quarter - there is a play near the end where it was impossible for Richmond not to score - it starts on the members side wing/hff for Richmond and eventually ends up in the pocket near the Anzac flame. Between the wide shots and the close shots - nibbler is pretty much never out of frame - he goes and goes and goes and goes and goes and eventually the ball falls into his lap and he mongrels the ball out of bounds. A Richmond guy near me at the game said 'how did we not manage to score there? I implore you to find it and watch it - you will see his value to the team. The goal from the boundary was just a bonus

I just posted saying I was wrong mate Read recent comments

I've now watched the replay and the pile on was right. I was wrong. Kossie threw a baby half elbow that barely brushed mansell's chin, and then Mansell reacted by wrestling koz to the ground. And Kozzie post-goal was much less taunting than I originally thought. Thanks for calling me out all I particularly enjoyed Bolton saying 'come on, come on' to Viney - like he would last 3 seconds in that fight. He then went and decked Oliver for the 2nd free. How good!

Glad to hear Goodwin was having a word. Mentioned in his presser too that Kossie needs to deal with the attention better. More or less vindicates my concern so I'm not sure why it's hyperbole. I haven't seen the incident in full in replay but from what I could see, Kossie somewhat instigated it. Agree with what you're saying though - passionate young kid who will mature in time. Just need to watch he doesn't overstep it in the meantime as I said, because the media narrative can quickly turn on him and like it or not, that can impact performance and careers. If a Richmond player had done this, we would be baying for blood and calling him a sniper. People were already calling Mansell a thug and sniper and he barely did anything.

I actually don't disagree with many of their observations. Many dees fans around me were embarrassing with their gloating - was a fantastic win and no one knows what it's like to have been a dees fan, but you'd expect some humility given all we have gone through. It is only April. I don't agree that Tigers fans weren't like this in 2017 though. I recall they were, led by Riewoldt on field. I might be the only one but I didn't enjoy Kozzie's actions in the 4th. Mansell had held him well all day (with some sniping/rough stuff but par for the course) and Kozzie was sick of it. Elbowed Mansell in the head and then held his knee on his throat....and somehow received the free kick. Then kicks the goal, goes back to the 3rd gamer for more and taunts him and points to the scoreboard (against the reigning premier no less). Think he lost a few fans tonight. I generally love his aggression but I hope the coaching staff can knock this on the head and ensure he stays humble. It's not the first time I've seen him do this either - he's dumped people off the ball before and gets away with it because he's small and exciting (check his snap against Geelong - was only free to run at the ball because he'd dumped someone). Maybe I shouldn't care...Michael Long was a career long sniper and is remembered for all the other reasons

I'm so sick of this narrative. The idea that a professional sporting team, which is by design playing at its maximum potential if the coaching staff and players perform their roles, can 'lift' for an occasion and suddenly become 10/20/50% better than they otherwise would have been is just pure nonsense. It implies that collectively they have been leaving something in the tank in other 'non occasion' games. Or that they are lacking motivation to perform in the absence of a milestone. Inevitably, the team that performs better on the day/night in terms of executing their roles, strategy and football skills will win the game. It's as simple as that. The media love these stories as they are sentimental and easy to understand, but it's just not a concept that holds any water. In this example I'm not sure how the passing of a club great would cause 22 unrelated men to collectively raise their output. In all likelihood, the Lions were just the better team on the day. As we were in Spud's game.

For those jumping on me for knocking him, yes I did watch him on the weekend. I've watched him since he joined the list, at training, in intraclubs and generally in every game he's played. I agree he was fantastic on the weekend and his pressure and aggression alone will be enough to get him games given the MO of our forward line this year....Spargo wouldn't want to have a few quiet weeks in a row. For me he was BOG ahead of Weid. I maintain though, and this is evident if you watch the weekends game without bias, that his disposal is his significant weakness. Short kicking could not be further from A1 if it tried - honestly can't believe someone has said that. He's got very little control (and the speed at which he moves Is no doubt part of the problem - see Treloar for years), overkicks significantly the majority of the time. He's in some respects the polar opposite of Spargo - he's got speed, agility, bounce and power, but far less skill and guile. Charlie lacks in explosiveness and speed and tricks, but his kicking and weighting of the ball IS A1. (The combination of the two is basically Kozzie). Chandler is another who has a higher natural skill level and is a touch cleaner particularly on the deck, but doesn't quite have Toby's explosiveness. Absolutely not writing him off - he has improved significantly with the benefit of a couple of pre-seasons and his strong attributes are indeed high level. Natural skill/feel for kicking is hard to mask though and may put a ceiling on his potential. More than happy for him to prove me wrong - he wouldn't be the first player to improve his skill level (Jobe Watson, Nathan Jones, Tom McDonald all good examples) Seems many aren't capable of nuance - he's got tricks, and deficiencies. If he didn't he'd already be in the side....

Suggest you watch more closely. Has some attributes but disposal is not one of them - has been demonstrated at both levels many times