fr_ap

Since our ejection on Friday night I've been reflecting on our season and where it might have gone wrong. Or in particular, why this year never quite felt right. All teams have question marks on whether they have what it takes to get to the top. Supporters and the media focus largely on whether the playing group is talented enough, whether the coaching/gameplan can succeed and whether the off field administration is enabling success. These are no doubt important. For us though, none of these 3 elements have changed materially from last year. We know the team is good enough, we know the coaching group was good enough (notwithstanding tactics need to change) and we are stable off field. What has changed and I think why I felt 'uncomfortable' with a lot of the seasons successes - is the culture. This is what stitched it all together last year and in this sport in particular, with the largest ground and freeform positioning, is a crucial element to executing a defensive-minded gameplan. Bit by bit, week by week, I think our leaders (players and coaches) have let it slip, with a trail of markers going back to the end of last year: - Gawn declaring at our premiership celebration that we'd salute in 2022 - I'm sure this was designed to be bold, but it imbued from the start a disrespect to our opposition and to some degree, embedded some underlying complacency - the Carlton pre season game, conceding 8 50m penalties and clearly lacking some discipline and respect for our opponents and the umpires - consistent selection of players who were underdone, out of form or blatantly injured, reducing accountability, reducing trust in the FD to be impartial, and denying our youth and second stringers of chances to grow. Not very selfless or trusting from our FD decision makers. - May/Melksham incident, notable not for it's drunkenness or timing but for what was said by May to Melksham, implying a clique of 'premiership heroes' to the exclusion of all others, and again a sense of entitlement stemming from achieving success last year - coaching refusal to change structure or gameplan in the face of pretty compelling evidence that it was being dismantled - clear on field selfishness in front of goals - Fritsch the poster boy but it arguably most damaging from players like Trac who repeatedly attempts to kick goals with 3 oppo players on top of him rather than using his gifts to release someone to space as he did more often last year - clear drop off in accountability to team defense standards in guarding space appropriately or sitting at the defensive side of a contest. The selflessness that was such a hallmark is now difficult to see in this regard. - clear drop off in willingness to work hard at the little things off the ball - they spoke about being the best teammates they could be last year. Being 3rd last in pressure implies they weren't very good teammates to each other this year at all. - Continued poor discipline in both our finals, conceding 50m penalties to Sydney at crucial times and again against Brisbane, with the leadership group repeatedly at fault and a litany of downfield free kicks as we repeatedly dumped players after kicking -players openly arguing, pointing and expressing frustration with each other on field, including the leaders -Langdons poorly worded 'duck dinner' comment - I'm sure not wholly intended to be disrespectful but again a marker of an underlying arrogance in the teams evaluation of its opponents -Consistently going ahead early in all our losses - indicating again our pure footy ability was clearly good enough - only to be overrun. I think fitness wasn't the issue. I think it was the teams mindset to run for each other, trust their teammate to win a contest and a collective belief in the system and team defense. -Gawn spoke about last year how their cultural change started with the removal of the 'little quips' around the club - not bringing each other down for fun. I'm sure I'm not alone in noticing that from about a 1/3 of the way through the year, the Gus and Gawny episodes took a bit of a turn...the quips of teammates returned in subtle doses in exchange for a laugh. By the last few episodes of the year I no longer enjoyed the show - arrogant, backslapping banter often at the expense of their guest or the team's lesser lights. - Gawn has a guest spot on Nova's breakfast show once a week. The hosts questioned Max a number of times about our form during the 2nd half of the year. It's a breakfast show and I don't expect it to be serious, but near the end of the year Max kept referring to our ladder position as his defense. "Well, we're still second so we must be doing something right". There was a clear denial of the trends within our game (at least to the extent he would admit it externally), again implying a level of disrespect for the opposition. Jonathan Brown more than once accused Max of living in the past. Brown is hardly a beacon of morality or good judgement, but I think he was on the mark. I'll stop here to avoid making this any longer - I'm sure others can add their own observations to this list. I've no doubt some of you will say I'm being pedantic, particularly on the final two points on how Gawn has presented in the media - but I just can't shake the sense that the selflessness, humility, and team unity that we had in 2021 has been pretty significantly eroded. I think this is encapsulated by our two finals games. We were deers in headlights when both Sydney and Brisbane cranked up the pressure. We clearly weren't running for each other. Uninspired and selfish can look a lot like being gassed. It was pretty alarming to see this team, our amazing, contested, tough, 'built for finals' team start playing hot potato and putting teammates under pressure with errant or 30cm hospital handballs. I think this reflected that the playing group to some degree lost the trust & faith they once had in one another. If I am unfortunately right, it won't be an easy fix from here. Culture is the hardest and last thing to get right, and it's the easiest and first thing you get wrong. Looking forward to the offseason moves and all of that - but my eye will be watching for the return of some of the cultural markers we had in 2021. Or at least, the non recurrence of the markers of 2022.

Whilst he has games where he is a true game changer, I'm now in the camp where I'd like him to go. Securing two first rounders at this point in our journey with our flag window still wide open could be just what we need (presuming we don't stupidly spend one on Grundy). Put simply - if someone offers you two first rounders for your backup ruck, you take it. I'm not sure his ceiling is all that higher than we've already seen. He'll get more consistent no doubt, but I think we can probably replace 70% of his output with a 2nd stringer ruckman from elsewhere.

Good on the OP and good on you all playing the positives. I agree with most of what's been said. A positive for me is we are clearly still in the window - we were in every game and largely when things are equal (at the starts of games), we were the better team in all but maybe 1 or 2 matches. I'm not convinced those teams remaining are miles better - we are just banged up, in a weird headspace, copped a lot of 'higher than expected conversion' against us and we really were everyone's grand final. The planets need to align for a flag and they never quite did for us this year. That's ok.

Kane Cornes saying Kozzie Pickett in the sights of the two Adelaide clubs. If this happens pack the joint up

This is very alarming. Coupled with us being 3rd last in the comp for pressure acts and it's not hard to see why we're all feeling like we're struggling despite coming 2nd and being still in the hunt. Doesn't bode well at all for finals footy...Sydney already bore this out

As much as I want to see it, if they bring JVR in it's pretty poor form IMO. The kid has been in great form for a long time and Melk has had down weeks before. We've played one key forward for half the year and it's only ever really looked potent against Brisbane. I think that is for a reason. If we blink and pick him, I think it tells you how the FD are feeling - not confident. Some would say making a structural change with the season on the line is bold. I think it is risky and/or negligent after a season of chances to try has passed us by

I made no such suggestion....we are the reigning premiers. We came 2nd. Lost a QF to a red hot young team who are clicking at the right time and kicked opportunistic goals, aided by 50m penalties. It's hardly the time to throw everything out and make 'courageous change'. If in 3 years we are still kicking to the pocket then sure - make courageous change then. I'm not sure why you're simultaneously lauding Geelong's change whilst in the next sentence deriding that it took them 5-10 years to make it. As for the G once being exclusively ours - completely irrelevant to the here and now. It's well known that Geelong's home ground provides them an advantage over visiting teams. It stands to reason, then, they are better placed to make 'significant change' at home with the knowledge they carry a headstart into every game. What an odd exaggerated response you've come up with!

Whilst I don't want him to do any further damage and would bet my house the snipey lions will go stand on his leg or something (J Berry probably), you can't undersell how crucial he is to us scoring. Highest score involvement player in the comp in a team that often struggles to score. I dont have the stat but wouldn't be surprised if he has a hand in at least 50% of our goals. Simply cannot be replaced. On that basis, he'll play. The one we should be more worried about is Fritsch, who is usually the one kicking said goals. If he doesnt play, we are really in trouble. More generally, nearly every player in the forward line is now carrying an injury and many with knees: Fritsch, Brown, Melk, Pickett's all have troublesome knees. Spargo has a bashed throat & ANB played arguably the worst game of his life after struggling all year. I don't want JVR being thrown to the wolves....but short of Joel Smith, we might not have any other options.

Its taken a long time for the penny to drop at Geelong & make real change, despite their significant advantages affording them plenty of time & easy home games with which to experiment. Hardly courageous. Our PF mauling did that to them.

I get how most are feeling. More than a whiff of straight sets, banged up team and a lions outfit that will be hunting for revenge. Far from a guaranteed victory. Late start, late finish. Another ticket to purchase. If you're on the fence, I'd implore you to get along. We of all people know that finals absences can happen quickly, and we never know when we might get back to this position again with some key planks in our team starting to get on. Its largely the same team that gave us a flag last year. They're probably not at our best, but they deserve our support. As for the game, I attended many games when we had a less than 5% chance of winning. Comparatively this couldn't be more exciting with a PF on the line. Plenty of premier's have lost a QF - get along and support your team.

We have a big whiff of straight sets I reckon. Rapidly losing interest in all other games as a result. What's really sad is Melbourne supporters were ready to believe again last night - 78k a huge turnout. The disappointment on everyone's faces, cost of attending finals and our poor form at the G will likely restrict our attendance to 50k max next week. Even after a premiership, our supporter base are incredibly fragile because we didn't get to see it in person. Curtains I'm afraid.

Say what you want, but I maintain we are a better team away from home because the young dad's are away from their kids. It's no coincidence to me that Viney, lever and melksham in particular play poorly at home. They ain't sleeping. (This is coming from a place of vast, significant experience btw). Our best players are the Childless - May, Oliver.

People make excuses to feel better mate, a tale as old as time. Easiest excuse in the book is 'just wait, you'll see'. In any other language it's called blind hope

100%, every team in the comp would die to have this guy nullifying the 2nd or 3rd banana every week whilst seemingly going unnoticed

Absolutely

If there is any legs to this Hird rumour, it would be a horrendous breakup from the club for me. Would hand back the membership and ask for a refund

Heavens to Betsy there a lot of people in here who don't understand footy, our game plan or what won us a flag

This is what tipped you off? Of all things? Anyone who has gone remotely close to them in corporate Melbourne knows it. Its a milk bar being run by your uncle's best mates ' mates and the boys. Truthfully the entire industry is a house of cards that rests on 4 very large invoices

You're not missing anything - it's a fair question. I can only surmise that given the opportunity, our players are trying to make it look like a "Melbourne game", gain control and command the tempo. The more they do it, the more we revert to type and the system can take over. It's just a gameplan - there are many moments within games when they won't adhere and we will go fast and direct. To some extent, we potentially rely on those moments to kick a winning score despite doing the pocket stuff so frequently. Instinct when it's clear & obvious (e.g Jackson's kick to Fristch one out with Murphy in the 1st Q on the weekend), pocket kick when it's not. Noting that 'instinct' differs for many - some will still put it to the pocket by type (Clarry). Doesn't mean we don't score from the pocket - we had several scores from it on the weekend - but if we do it 70% of the time it allows the system to take over. On good days, the other 30% will help us score in spite of ourselves... I hold some hope that in finals, the energy and excitement take over and we go more on instinct - clearly, Bang Bang Bang was not the product of the pocket kick. To the poster questioning how we stop #3 - teams playing on quickly after intercepting - its two fold: -play a competitive tall to halve the marking contest -stay switched on. Requires all who are not involved in the pocket contest to avoid ball watching, running to space, or zoning off too far.

Precisely 😛

I'm not sure why anyone is surprised after 2 years of this game plan. I'll be very clear: The players are under coaching instruction that says "unless you are confident you can hit the lead up or lateral kick, play the %s and kick to the pocket". It is the #1 building block of our much vaunted defence as it narrows the opposition's exit, allowing us to set up the full ground zone accordingly. This plays to the strengths of our key & intercepting defenders. It is also why we have so many inside 50s - from the pocket, you're the least likely to score but the most likely to get repeat entries. This also comes with an advantage of tiring the opposition's defence & mids, and giving our defence a break (adopted from the NFL). The longer you play front half footy, the theory is the more you score. We play a mathematically conceived system that ignores low conversion & low efficiency in favour of sheer quantity. If you unflinchingly play the %s every time, those %s are realised in the results. This is not to say anomalies can't occur, but its a system designed to keep us competitive for long periods of time in winning positions, somewhat irrespective of personnel. Sprinkle some luck, skill or moments of class onto this system, and you'll be OK a lot of the time. If you're complaining about kicking to the pocket, then you can't laud our high i50 count or laud the fact we have conceded the least points all year. They're fundamentally connected. Where this falls down is: 1. The majority of our players are not confident they can hit the lead up or lateral kick, so they don't bother, because if they miss it the defensive system falls down & our 'defence first' gameplan falls apart. Lacking this confidence, they play the %s, ignoring blatantly open options. Spargo is told by all and sundry he's our best i50 kick - he now knows it implicitly and is the only one who takes the chances others are too scared to try. 2. Our bigs need to be able to contest the pocket-kick & at least bring it to ground or get it out of bounds. With one tall (often taking the bail out kick on the wing), it falls down and we get intercepted. 3. Having intercepted, teams like Collingwood move it out from the pocket incredibly fast. This negates the defensive benefit we were getting whilst still limiting our chances to score. It is however for them a risky strategy that relies on supreme fitness. Teams can do this, but they'll not often succeed. #1 and 2 can be addressed by encouraging players to be bold (they have the skill; they've been coached out of it) and simply picking a competitive 2nd tall. #3 has emerged this year and is a challenge for the coaches. On the eve of finals we're not going to change this plan. It is the reason we are competing for top 4.

We were spoiled by what happened in Finals last year & it's tainted our expectations. We came in this year believing the hype and genuinely believing that we would beat most teams by 100 points every week. When we struggle through and win by 20, even going 10-0, a lot of us were disappointed. The reaction on here was testament to that. Noise & passion is based on how performance compares to expectation; when we had nothing to lose in 2018 & were dreaming of a flag run, we were raucous. The Pies didnt expect to be where they are & they're riding the wave. They're raucous (moreso than usual). The other key driver of noise & passion is demographic. I've covered this before but put simply - footy means more to those with less. It's a weekly highlight (for many, the key highlight) & an escape from the daily pressures. You can see this at Pies games, Blues games & Tigers games - there are swathes of grown men who rock up in pilly trackies, a 1999 bomber jacket & are incredibly vocal. You get the impression the footy is their key weekly outing. It's a cliche but our more affluent supporter base results in less passion - put simply, they've got a lot of other things to do. We on this forum aren't the problem & by definition have some fanaticism.

100%. Its only ever been a factor for those that can't or won't come to terms with what their eyes can see is happening on field. I'm sure they'll find another excuse shortly

What's missing is hunger. We drop away in second halves because we mentally let it happen. It's not fitness. Our response as supporters to these losses is - we have last year. Players are no different. They are satisfied with one.

Gutted. One of the best games I've been to...probably ever. And of course, we're on the wrong side at the end. The train just broke into a Collingwood chant. Is the loading conspiracy dead? Same theme again tonight as all of our losses. All were blamed on loading despite no confirmatory evidence. Sometimes you just need to admit that your gameplan has been worked out and that other teams want it more. It's been clear all year, even when we won 10 in a row. The fact we are As close as we are without a dominant key forward is just absurd. The fact Geelong are gettable' despite having two is an indictment on them. Can't argue with 11 in a row. I will say I don't think it's sustainable, but I've already been proven wrong. I don't think any defence can setup when the ball moves that fast. Blink and you'll miss it. They added an absolutely elite 18 yo half back and it changed their side. All credit to them - if they can win a flag in this style it will be one of the Better ones. Every premier revolutionised something - maybe Collingwood have broken zone defence. Its utterly deflating and utterly painful. I've not seen dees fans look that wrenched for a long time. Be kind to your families folks. We have last year. They don't. I'm hanging onto that and they can't take that away from me