fr_ap

Appreciate the considered response and that someone could see where im coming from. Im not saying he has a problem or potting the kid, just that i wish for his improvement to be as fast as it can be, because he could be absolutely elite and i believe key to our improvement. He is capable of moments not many in the league can produce. This is what we need more of and I actually love him to bits. However, you can bet that there are players in the league in his bracket who are doing extra (and he may be too, I dont know). Whether that is Parish, Mills or Dunkley, thats what he is competing against, no point glossing over it. We've all seen that the natural talent isnt always enough (sylvia says hello). We've been burnt before so i proceed with caution. The OP is a valid point. As someone who has never been able to get rid of it, I have immense respect for anyone who has. Judging by the responses i must have struck a nerve?

Disappointed to hear Oliver is still battling in the running. I was really hoping he would put in a ton of work over the break. I fear that despite being the most gifted of the lot IMO, he doesnt appear to have the will and drive that some of the others do (albeit early days). I would hate to see him not reach the potential he clearly has as he could absolutely tear the comp apart one day i think. I know he wasnt in all the elite draft programs and is a bit of a lad (I know from a source at the club he copped a few sprays from roosy about his early behaviour), so hoping he's just coming from a bit further behind and will catch up in these areas.

Landsberger reporting pick 29 this year

Why are people surprised re salem? Ive expected him out this year since about round 20. We are lacking currency to make moves and here we have a top 10 pick with obvious quality but injury and occassional form concerns. If he was playing for GWS and we were chasing we'd be saying its a done deal.

No. Where has this come from?

From a source close to Jayden, the money the saints have on the table is close to irrefusable compared to what the bombers have offered. He wants to stay, but the money is talking. There were inquiries from other clubs but its either st kilda or essendon, so i wouldnt give it much thought. Not sold on him anyway, he has a long way to go in my opinion.

For once can we not throw the captain title at anyone playing career best footy? Whether its viney, watts, hogan or tom mac, jones has a few good years left and is clearly doing a marvellous job. Its such a melbourne supporter thing to do. Just leave it be and let the FD do their job.

Did something happen to the guy during the week? I cant recall him ever playing this bad for either us or Adelaide. He really looked listless and just awful today (though he wasnt alone, viney was half asleep)

I dont get the hysteria on here and to be frank im thankful none of you are in charge. Young teams cant travel, its well documented. Dawes is in to provide experience, a target and a big body and he will bring all of those things notwithstanding his flaws. A few have rightly pointed out that two ruckmen at subi would be a disastrous selection, so spencer waits a few weekz before we put max on ice. Weed and hulett arent banging the door down and by all accounts have a fair way to go - whats the rush? We arent gaining anything this year by sending them on a 6 hour round trip to Perth with noone in the fwd 50 except 20 year old Hogan for company. Get real. Hulett will debut later this year. Weid potentially not at all unless he can turn his form around. My understanding is VDB has been basically playing injured all year - both ankles and a few hip issues. If you watched closely at the st kilda game he got crunched a few times and was slow to get up. For those saying he is slow - you have no idea. One of the quicker players on our list and its a key reason why his defensive and tackling pressure is a good attribute. Hope ANB gets played a few times in the middle and can show some things. Was disappointed when he came in earlier in the year off the back of red hot form and was unsighted. Just quietly - i think stretch is coming along very nicely and in 3 years might just surprise a few with how good he is.

While im not happy with the win tally and a few of the losses in particular, suggest a deep breath and some time is needed from all. We are fielding the youngest team in the afl every week, and more often than not taking it up to some good teams. This sport is too tough, the season too long and the spotlight too intense for kids to consistently perform at a level expected of a 100 to 200 game player. You might say otherwise - look at the bulldogs for example - but there are always exceptions. They drafted superbly and have built a great mix. They click with the coach and also have had quite a favourable draw that allowed them early wins and confidence to build, regardless of how hard it gets for them in the back half of the draw. As long as we keep fielding the most inexperienced team in the league, wins are going to be difficult to get. At some point the list needs to stabilise and a core is carried through until they are all 25 with 140 games, which is a real challenge in the age of free agency and will ultimately define how successful we can be (of course, these players need the talent but i believe we have it) There were times during the year when all of us on here were very excited and finals were discussed, but a bad performance sees people clutching for the life jacket. Perspective!

I like VDB for all the defensive things he brings to the game but im concerned about his ceiling. His decision making and kicking is still poor and is costly at key times. Its a shame because with his speed and power he could be incredibly damaging

Matt jones was in great form early in the year before getting injured. He gives us what we dont have - two way running and spread. His decision making is improving as he gets more experience - remember he has only played 55 games. Agreed, Harmes can be fumbly - but he is also one of our few mids who can be a genuine forward threat. Garlett and kent are small forwards. Small forwards always go missing first. All are better than JT and JG objectively.

Dont normally get sucked into this stuff on here but you absolutely need to pull your head in. You want to talk stats and number of posts, your ratio of posts to likes will do. On average less than half of your posts get a single like, so it seems your opinion doesnt hold the sway you think it does.

Not just you mate. Small pocket of us went absolutely sick. Got told by the woman in front of me to 'calm down' as she patted my leg. They must coach the umpires better. You could see them today hesitate on these calls i think after the furore during the week..but then they called it anyway. Afl must sort it out its becoming a real issue. Its the kids who are doing it too, they are clearly being coached. Sicily got 3 free kicks from it today.

That doesn't imply he is missing with concussion. It's saying he missed round 7 with concussion. He's been dropped.

Missons update on the club website has told us a bit about the injured players. Lumumba is still showing concussion symptoms so he can't come in to replace jetta this week. I think we will see grimes get a gig and play down back, as we dont have many other small defender options for the likes of green and zorko at times. Kent sounds right to go as well and he did play out the gold coast game with his back, so i suspect he may come in. To conclude, i dont think ANB is the lock this week some think he is. Oh, and vanders will play for casey. Make no mistake, a fit and firing vandenburg gives us a real point of difference with his size and speed. Even when he played poorly this year he still added a few goals against gws and north. Cant wait to have him back.

Not confident at all, dogs are the better more consistent side in the contest at this stage and have had real tests already in north, adelaide and hawthorn. They kept the saints to 36 points and the saints put 135 past us. Always hopeful, them playing at the g and without marcus adams makes it a bit unknown. Go dees!

Can you copy and paste for those of us who cant get past the paywall? Cheers

He copped an awkward tackle in the forward pocket before hogans disallowed left foot over the shoulder goal, and drove his knee into the ground, jolting his back. He lay writhing on the ground for 20 seconds in front of the dees cheer squad after the play and was very sore holding his lower back when he got up. Im not surprised hes not 100%. Maybe watch the game next time before you suggest a player 'learns a lesson' from a genuine injury.

Yes I'll admit I'm not sure where I got 4.5 from - It was a 5 day break (Mon to Fri, game day does not count). I don't care how long a break the Saints had - we looked tired because we had a shorter break than we have had so far this year. We also went hell for leather in the NAB Challenge, starting largely the same team we are fielding now. I've no idea how much the Saints have rotated their squad through pre-season and rounds 1-6 - I can only speak to what we have done and the game showed we were ragged. Not sure their game plan is highly taxing - they waited for us to press and then quickly countered around the wings and over the back as soon as they got the ball. To be honest, we were the ones who actually forced the play style - they just countered it very well. Re. The Saints being just as young - you are proving my point. We are up and down, they are up and down. They were widely criticised for last week, we were absolutely heaped with praise. I'm telling you to look beyond the week to week performances and look for the game style and the traits of our young players. Reserve the swaying with the wind day-by-day or week-by-week approach for the media. Gresham, Acres, Minch and Membrey are all mids or forwards who benefited from the counter-attack, Membrey in particular who profited from having 3 goals fall in his lap off the contest. Far harder task is being put to Hunt and Wagner who have to remain accountable but also drive the play and take risks from half back. We have had our young mids put in games like Acres' before - again it changes from week to week and Blake will have many more bad games before he does this consistently. Agree re. Plan B and the coaching box, but clearly the coaches are backing themselves in with this game style. The coaching box are trying to show the players that the style can work at all times and we have shown this with some comebacks so far this year. It just didn't work yesterday but its no use throwing it out completely. Poor individual performances from our KPDs in particular did not help and the coaches hands are always tied to the performances of the players on the park. I demand better performances and criticise when the club and players deserve it, which has been frequently in recent years, and yesterday was not one of those days. I was absolutely scathing after the Essendon game because it was clearly an effort issue. I said we as a supporter base are part of the problem. I didn't say we are the cause. But when we kick up a fuss about bad performances because we pay our $150 membership a year, the club and the media listens. Heads roll. Confidence falls. Why do you think we look like we are turning a corner now? It's because we've had Roos to take the flak from people like you without forcing the club to make a change. This has allowed us 3 years of stability, and hopefully we have 3 more at least with Goody. I greatly admire how Brisbane are sticking with Leppa through some pretty rough years. The Melbourne of the last 15 years would have been through 2 coaches by now and decimated the confidence of every bright player on that list. They may see success sooner than we do on the back of this stability. We will not see success until we have more experience on the list and every time you change the coach or cut a player, you are slowing that process down. Change for change's sake is not helpful. Your entire 'us vs them' attitude between the supporters and the club is appalling. We've had a crap decade, but the people who did that are gone. You aren't entitled to great performances purely because you think you're a trooper for showing up, or for sticking fat through the years. So get on board, back them in and act like a real supporter. And Stuie - to be fair to the DL folk, the biggest negative reaction has been on Facebook (the Club's postings comments). You can't be heard on that platform though so posting here was the only option and hopefully it gets through to some.

If you call the entire period since we last won a flag as pain and suffering....I suggest you stop following sport and stay confined to your home where you can control the outcome of everything. If a flag is the only thing that would be acceptable and cure the pain, I honestly feel for you as it must be hard to enjoy even the smallest improvement by that yardstick. As I said, many good teams never win flags - doesn't mean we weren't ever a good team in that time period.

Don't post here a lot - long time reader. Reading some of the reactions to the game yesterday both on here and in particular the club's Facebook feed, I feel compelled to post as I'm just so sick of this club's supporters. And yes, I've been through it all so don't say I haven't done the hard time. Today was an entirely predictable result and the sky is not falling in. We came off a 4.5 day break and errors were made at the selection table for not refreshing the squad. Young teams struggle with short turnarounds. It was clear to all watching that from mid-way through the first quarter after the adrenaline had worn off that we were not covering the ground either in offence or defence. Lots of hands on hips/heads at the breaks. Our new game style is high risk, high reward, and extremely taxing. We played a team that had the speed to exploit this on their fast home track. Our short turnaround resulted in us looking sluggish and disinterested (I don't think this was actually the case and the effort was there). Our fortunes rise and fall with Max Gawn and he has often struggled against Hickey in the past. Mobile, tall tap ruckmen are his weakness, and Hickey is very much in this mould. Max is far more effective against the brutes/undersized rucks like Maric and Grundy (coincidentally when he starred). He's played 40 games and if he continues with his rate of improvement, it wont be long before he has no weaknesses at all. Our team is extremely young and one of the youngest in the league. Our half back line relied on two players who have played less than 5 games and they look to a 30-gamer (Salem) for leadership. We played 3 players with less than 5 games each which is a lot to carry when our 'experienced' players are 50 gamers. Petracca was overawed - hard for a first gamer to play in a team that was evidently tired. We don't match up well on the Saints in the same way we always match up very well against Richmond. Their midfield is quick (ours is not), their forwards are mobile and their backmen are experienced. To those who say that we should be able to play the same way against any team - an extremely simplistic view that fails to consider the variation of players/teams across the league. Anyone who has played any sport knows that there are always certain types of players/teams that you struggle against. Not to say we should just accept defeat - but needs to be understood. The saints only really scored on the counter/over the back - it isn't as if we were soundly beaten in every single area of the ground. We had one key deficiency they exploited, but we still kicked 100 odd points with about 10 passengers. This is progress and a simple fix. Until we have 100+ games into Trac, Brayshaw, Kent, Harmes, Viney, Tyson, Gawn, Kennedy, Oliver, ANB, VDB, Hunt, Wags, Frost, Salem etc. - we can expect to see this type of inconsistency. We will continue to have good weeks and bad weeks. The competition is very even and we saw today that a few passengers makes it hard to win. Our experienced players were poor, yes, and this is the most disappointing part. Don't forget that TMac and Lumumba were a big part of our good footy the last two weeks. The overreactions on here, and particularly Facebook are not warranted. We did NOT lose because the players spoke of confidence and finals. What do you expect? If we are ever going to improve, we will need to learn to deal with increased expectation and positive media. It is part of the journey and to those saying that we should never say these things again - you are effectively wishing for another 10 years of misery at the bottom. The reactions by our supporter base are a significant part of the problem with this club and believe it or not we do have an impact on each other and on the perception of the club. For us to be successful we need long periods of coaching stability and low player turnover, and the worst thing we can do as a supporter base is cry foul and force changes in this regard. There will be good weeks, there will be bad weeks, and we know there will be good media and a fair amount of bad media. I would think after 15 years of pain most would be pleased we are finally playing a reasonable brand and scoring. Apparently not. People need to understand that the majority of good sides never win a flag, and in all likelihood this side won't either. My hope is we become good enough for perhaps a 5 year period where we are top 4 and respected and I will enjoy this time if it comes. In the meantime I'm going to enjoy the ups and the downs and regardless of our performance, the moments and incidents that make the game and being an AFL supporter great (like Hogan's 7 today). We are improving. Shut out the noise, stay the course and keep calm.

I'm not sure if it is anything new with Garland though. Hes always been a mouse and has never had the skills to attack the game. I dont think he was bad, i just struggle to see the perceived leadership. Surprises me pedo had that much of the ball. He wasnt bad either; no one was when we won by that much! I have higher expectations on him than most though as hes played a lot of vfl footy and is one of the older guys out there. To all those who enjoyed the write up, no problem at all. Was actually a great way to spend a quiet saturday night.

I just got home from the game and like others I'm glad I went. Started to get a bit chilly near the end but definitely bearable. Parking lot needs lights, had absolutely no idea where I was. Between the 2 dim sims and sausage roll I've had my fill of reconstituted pet meat. Couldn't find the famed bacon & egg rolls; there was a significant line for the hamburgers though. It was an absolutely rampaging 2nd half from the Scorps and thoroughly deserved win, all the more impressive given they had 1 rotation for the entire 2nd half. Although it must be said that Frankston, despite having the most vocal support, were extremely ordinary all over the ground. As I previously noted their big ruckman must be someone they picked out of Euroleague basketball because he had little idea how to play footy or even cover the ground with any coordination. Awful player. They also had a dashing rebounding defender with blonde hair who thought he was Brodie Smith, checksiding his way out of the backline with regularity into the waiting arms of a Scorpion. I was also not a fan of their TJ esque full back, complete with 50s hair and long sleeve jumper, who couldn't punch the ball nor take the many uncontested marks that somehow fell his way. Onto the Dees listed players (and apologies for any I miss, this is recollection only): Brayshaw - All action game from Gus from the get go. He hits players bloody hard (you can feel it at this level when you are nearby) and his attack on the ball was manic. We know he can bring this side of the game; his evolution needs to come in his outside game. We know he can be damaging through the corridor but even when that worked last year I felt like the kick was often made to look better by the speed of Jeffy. There were times tonight where he was in the clear and completely fluffs the kick, absolute tumblers. He kicked 2 by my count, both when he broke clear in the forward 50 and ran into goal. Seemed to run the game out fine. Also liked how vocal he was in the 3QT huddle urging the boys on for another big quarter. Him and Trac have a fair bit of love going on and its evident they really enjoy playing together. Petracca - I was surprised he had 28 touches ; I didn't think he had it that much. Nonetheless a very noticeable player when he has the ball and at times without it; a real burst runner. There were a number of times where he absolutely bust his gut running quick alongside a contest to try and get on the end of it. Doesn't run quite as hard defensively but this will come. His kicking is low and hard with huge penetration; hit an absolute burner from the wing to Weideman on the lead at CHF in Q1 that big Sam grassed. Just as well too or young Sammy might have jarred all the bones in his hands at once. Not sure I've seen a kick with that penetration for some time. He has a touch of Robbie Gray about him in that he looks to sidestep and ride a challenge before disposing; I suspect when he plays AFL this will get found out a few times and he will be pinged. He has a fair bit of attitude about him and endless banter with both his teammates and the opposition. He continually demands the ball when teammates are lining up for set shots, begging for the ball even when he is surrounded by opponents and absolutely filthy when they don't give it. The type of player that teammates love and opposition players will hate. 1 or 2 more weeks and he will be right to go, but it's a weird feeling being both excited and terrified everytime he goes near the ball. We haven't even seen what he can do yet but I still have kittens everytime he is in a contest that *might* have awkward knee implications. Suspect I'm not alone here. ANB - Really warmed into the game and was a key reason for the 2nd half dominance. He's a good in and under player but I actually think he's not a pure inside midfielder as some have him pegged. He sort of a half-half; he'll never be receiving the ball streaming past on the outside but he's often the one on the end of the handball from under the pack in a yard or two of space. From this position he often finds a free player with a short kick; his lateral awareness is very good and his kicking has a quick and simple release. Could easily end up a 200 game player and if he comes in soon this year expect an impact in the 2nd half of games. His endurance is outstanding and he's quite a mature player for his age. Weideman - First time I have seen him play. He wasn't as dominant as he sounds from the stats but played a good game and created headaches for the Dolphins all night. Most of this was due to his height but he also times his jumps quite well and leads well for a young player. It's clear he has a good footy head on his shoulders and he reminded me a little of a skinnier, quicker, taller Darling. He's very aggressive in the air which I loved, but when he got involved in the play up the ground he generally turned it over. A couple of times he would take a grab or receive the ball in space and look to play it on quickly. This was good but often his execution let him down. Nonetheless I like his instincts and think he could be a good one. Pending our forward line troubles continuing he may get a look in at some stage. I feel like he will be good for Hogan because he actually leads all over the place which will drag the defenders away from Jesse's square. Trengove - Saw him take a mark in the backline and kick off in the first minute. Watching him follow the quick with his run, I thought he was covering the ground better and quicker than I remember. The next minute he had his head knocked off in a contest and was prone on his back for a good 5 seconds. Got up and had the dizzies so he went off and failed a concussion test. He was walking around later and seemed fine, if quiet. Pedo - Fairly average game. Didn't have to assume heaps of ruck responsibilities once Mitch King went down, but other than a few in Q2 he isn't clunking his marks like we know he can. I'm not convinced he has the sharpness or quickness of thought to ever be more than a role player and his age is not on his side. Michie - Whilst he probably got a lot of the ball and did kick a couple of classy goals, he just doesn't have enough damage to his game. He's rather one paced, doesn't work hard to get into space and for a clearance player actually has pretty poor composure. Tends to bomb it long rather than lowering his eyes and backing his skills and he doesn't seem to have the body type that modern AFL demands. He's skinny down low and big up top, which seems to make him easy to tackle and dispossess and limits his explosiveness. He's sort of like the polar opposite to Petracca... White - I'm a fan of this guy - he presents as a slightly odd player but most of his involvements are really positive. He's a strong body player, good size for a third or fourth defender, goes for intercept marks (not a bad leap on him) and has really good footskills. Could improve his ground level play where he is a little dumbly, but is very vocal and clearly seen as a leader. Not sure how Wagner is getting a gig ahead of him tomorrow and I remember liking his Rd23 game against GWS last year too. Handy sidekick for Salem I think with a bit more size. Hunt - Can be eye catching, his 2nd half was fantastic but I'm not completely sold. As mentioned it was an absolute rampage in the second half and Hunt was free to run off the HB flank at will with pretty much no defensive consequences. That said he had some really good set up play and is starting to use his evasion and speed really well. I'm not a huge fan of his kicking but he mostly plays to his limitations which is a trait I like in a young player. He will get a gig at some point this year and may do alright. Very quiet around the huddle and seems to be keeping his head down. Garland - Didn't notice him a huge amount, but contested well in the air whenever the ball went into the Dolphins forward line. They wouldn't have had many marks inside 50 which was a credit to the work he and Oscar got through. Despite being implored by the coaches to be brave and take the corridor, continues to look sideways and take the safe option. Also way too quiet around the huddles for a guy who is in the senior team leadership group. If I were on this team, I wouldn't see or feel he is a leader. Oscar - Could easily get a look in next week. He looked a fair cut above this level to be honest, which was surprising as I haven't been his greatest supporter, but he dealt with most inside 50 entries with ease and rebounded very well too. His footskills are more reliable than his brothers, still not great, but reliable and he generally doesn't make many mistakes. Seems a smart player. Was one of our best and I would have no issue if he was to come in next week. At this stage, at least the equal of Garland and could well be better, notwithstanding the potential of Garland's invisible leadership skills. Mitch King - Poor lad went down near me and was in a lot of pain, wailing from the moment he went down which given he has done it before, indicates ACL to me. I think it was an awkward tackle that did it; was hard to see. He seemed to be playing pretty well before that and I can understand the optimism I've been hearing. Terlich - Just standard. Kicked a good goal from just inside 50 on the run after breaking a tackle, but did little else noticeable. I don't know why he has never been trialled in the midfield or half forward flank pushing up, even the wing? We have played guys with worse endeavour and worse foot skills in those positions before. He is a see ball get ball player who generally pushes it forward with momentum. I think he is wasted in the backline because he doesn't have a defence first mentality. Hulett - He's a big lad and a bit of an enigma. When he gets it I think he is a mid as he's quick and mobile with a decent kicking action. At this stage though he's a fair bit off the pace and just doesn't quite know where to be. I'm surprised he isn't playing in the development league. Cops a fair bit of flak from his teammates constantly yelling 'Huey, get in position', including Petracca who taught him an absolute lesson about pushing up to the edge of the square as a half forward. He didn't listen and was second to the ball when it came forward out of the square. Trac let him know about it too. JKH - didn't have many (any) possessions but was specifically called out in the QT huddle for his work at the contest in the 50. He was certainly on some angry pills and was contesting everything, which was good to see. Disappointing to see him do his hammy; it seemed relatively minor at the time so should only be a couple of weeks I would think. Of the Casey players I didn't mind the smart little mid/forward they all referred to as 'Gussy' (No he wasn't Angus), they also had some good big forward targets who took a few big grabs. Casey barely missed a set shot in the 2nd half which added to the blowout. Don't think I missed anyone notable but happy to answer questions if I haven't covered something specific. Depending on how we go tomorrow I would think if changes are in order then Brayshaw, ANB, Oscar and potentially Hunt would come under consideration.

Hes a funny one hulett. Clearly hasnt played a lot of senior footy as he is frequently out of position but when he gets it i think he is a mid, such is his mobility