GM11

I seem to recall that both Carlton(@Princess Park) & Collingwood (@Victoria Park) considered revamping. But, because the cost to bring the current structures up to fire & safety standards was prohibitive, the only option was to demolish & rebuild or move. If so then Casey (& to a lesser extent Punt Rd) are more viable options from a construction view point. And let's not forget Eddie's new oval.

So I'll ignore "budding" then.

Mainly because the MCC make less money out of it. This is where we need to get the MCC back on board with us. By closing down the top tier, they would, in effect, be giving us a more favourable stadium deal. In other words they would be sponsoring us.

Defend: Miller..... I feel that ND nearly finished him. Thrown back against bigger players with no midfield pressure. His confidence was shot. I suspect he played hurt for a while too (when he refused to kick the ball). His resurgence is no surprise to me. My choice as Captain. Jamar.... Prior to this season he would have been lucky to get thirty minutes a game off the bench. Very hard for a big man to develop that way. The games I have seen him play with Sandy show a very different mind set. Very pleased to see him get the starting gig at last. The benefits will flow. Carroll... People just don't like his hair cut. This bloke played full back on bigger (& yes, more talented) players in a losing team. He more than held his own and was even listed among the best in the competition. Bias because of perceived off field issues doesn't change my opinion of him as a player. Still has a role to play. While I try to see positives in all listed players I have found it hard to see what the hype is about Newton. Saw him in the Kangaroos game at Casey. Looked like he would rather not be there. No enthusiasm. Terrible body language. I think he is a one trick pony. Doesn't seem able to contest the ground ball.

Nick Maxwell Josh Fraser Brendan Goddard

Same here. And if you think this one is bad you should have seen the other two.

No doubt the red designs with the traditional logo are ideal & look great. However I believe the reason we have this silver abomination is because the AFL wouldn't approve an all red design. If this is the case then the same should apply to all clubs. Essendon's wide stripe & Collingwood's black on white are a joke. The AFL need to show some genuine backbone & stipulate a basic design to all clubs. For example all those that need a light alternate have a base white jumper & shorts with a logo of choice on the front & maybe club coloured striping down the seams. All those that need a dark alternate have a base black jumper & shorts with logo etc. Then everyone is in the same position. No arguments & no crap designs like ours or Brisbane's mural.

Nasher- Can you or anyone else clarify this? The rules I have seen pertaining to rookies specifically say they can be elevated to replace "long term injured players". No mention of retirements. I also thought I heard one of the journalists (may have been Caro) mention this. If so did this mean that Valenti wasn't dropped, but went back to the rookies when Neitz retired? Immaterial now with Robbo's injury, but will interesting if Grimes comes back.

After last weeks display it's time to add some hardness & some experience. Especially for this game. Whelan Garland Warnock Green Rivers Wheatley Bruce McLean Morton Davey Miller Bate Sylvia Carroll Wonaeamerri Jamar McDonald Jones White Valenti Moloney Bartram In:Whelan Carroll Morton Rivers Davey Valenti Jamar Out: Bell Frawley Johnson Robertson Dunn Yze Buckley Em:Maric Holland Buckley

6-Bate 5-Davey 4-McLean 3-Green 2-Wonaeamirri 1-Garland & Warnock, Miller, Moloney, Holland, Jones

A win.....for Neita!

Nick Riewoldt. 3 Games 27 Marks 6 Goals

In fact you are correct Nugget. Article on MFC site quotes Morton as staying with a host family for the first year.

What if the Eagles offered to trade {insert dud eagles player here} to the Tiges for Pick 2 and {insert dud tigers player here}? In return they let Judd go to PSD. Then it comes down to who the Tigers would rather deal with. As you say I can't believe Richmond's cap is any tighter than Carlton's.

I reckon you have hit the nail right on the head. I suspect he has a minimum figure in mind and knows he will get it where ever he plays. So, I also suspect the highest bidder in terms of payment to Chris Judd is not going to be the decider. I think he will be more concerned with what he sees as adequate compensation to West Coast. So what is fair compensation in Chris Judd's mind. Low first round picks &/or emerging young players ? Since Collingwood have no low first round picks, would they give up Pendlebury & Thomas for example ? Similarly, would Essendon trade Ryder and ??? Will Carlton hand over their low pick(s) &/ or Murphy, Gibbs etc..? What would Melbourne be prepared to give ? Pick 4 &/or 21 &/or Newton &/or Bate? What I am getting at is, if you add the sentiment aspect, Melbourne are right in this mix if they want to be.

Plenty of people should be leaving here before you do, Ash. You are generally more rational than most (even me). Having said that I reckon Lloyd is still way ahead of the system. His hit on Carroll was hard enough to snap his head back. That, IMHO, fully fits the criteria for a charging offense. The player was not involved in play & would not reasonably be expecting any contact.

Thompson, Farmer, Woewodin Bruce, Pickett, Warnock Neitz, Godfrey, Rivers

Sack the coach & everything will be rosy. But - let's just think about the situation a little more. Let's just look at a few of the our playing group. Does the coach tell Robbo to go out and fly for every speccie he can? Does he tell him to go to ground after every contest, so there is no chance of a second effort? Does he tell him not to play like David Neitz and throw himself in to help a team mate? I doubt it. This is Robbo's mindset. He kicks seven against a second rate Collingwood defense but he can't get a kick against an even younger Richmond defense. Why? Does he start Bruce ,Davey ,TJ in a run with role or on the bench because our midfield is so rich with talent? I doubt it. The fact is these guys are too easily taken out of the game by a hard tag. Why is Brad Green brilliant one week and then unsighted for weeks at a time? Does he drop these guys? Who does he replace them with? I have highlighted some players here as examples. They are by no means solely responsible but - these are the guys who should be winning games for us. They are the core of experienced talent at the club. I fail to see how coaching can effect their performance dramatically at this point in their careers. Fact is, a large number of our playing group perform like millionaires. They show little passion for OUR club, OUR jumper or THEIR team mates. We need more Simon Godfreys - never drop the head - never give less than 100%. Let's face it, superb skills are useless if you can't get the ball. So that's my rant. Keep the coach. Cull the list.

Couldn't disagree with any of that.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I don't think you can just pick a group of 6 or 7 and say goodbye. You have to be able to identify replacements that are going to - . be able to fill the role of the players that are replaced and . improve the list The problem is, with limited lists, you can't afford to bring in 6 or 7 18 year olds, who may not play seniors for 2 years. As for Miller, 2 years ago he was a potential captain. I believe it was acknowleged that he played injured most of last season. The games I saw he was moved back & forward in almost every game. I thought he was kicking more in early games this year. Anyway I just think he is a hard at it player (and we aren't overrun with those) & a confidence player who deserves more time.

firstly - Excellent thread - Excellent opinions. My opinion on some of the players mentioned - Bruce - outside player & receiver. Nothing wrong with that though, every team has them. Really needs to work on his delivery though. The possessions he gets should be much more damaging than they are. Keep. Green - half forward flanker. Could be a damaging one. Can mark & kick. Hard to match up on. Keep . Miller - I reckon he is still playing injured. No inside info here, but he has become reluctant to kick again. Could it be OP? Keep . Godfrey - still our main stopper. I reckon Bartram is earmarked for midfield when he comes back. Disposal is nowhere near as bad as some think. Keep. Holland - Has to stay unless we can find another big bodied experienced player who can play both ends. Keep. Ferguson - Sad that he hasn't been able to stay fit. Trade or Keep. Warnock - Still has potential but ...... Trade. Moloney - Tough inside player. Players like him are gold. Just have to trust he can get over the OP. Keep. Jamar - Hasn't come on as well as expected. The worry is he is the type of player who could suddenly click. Keep. Ward - need to keep unless someone better at his role comes along. Trade or Keep. Brown - Sad but Trade or Delist. Bizzell - Good back up player. Keep. Judd - of course you would get him if you could. But have to weigh up improvement vs. cost. Pavlich - probably prefer him to Judd, only because we need to improve our scoring options more than anything at the moment.

I'll second that. Hard as nails on the field. Soft hearted off it. Some of the stuff this guy has done for people is above & beyond.

Totally agree. Big ask for Newton to step straight into CHF no matter what his form is like. Wouldn't surprise if Frawley gets a start, though. He was widely tipped to start Round 1, so they might be keen to give him a run sooner rather than later.

Rivers Carroll Bell Petterd Holland Yze Johnstone Moloney Bruce Sylvia Miller Pickett Dunn Neitz Davey White Green McDonald Jamar Godfrey Garland Buckley In: Holland(need body strength on Tredrea) Green(if Fit) Neitz(if fit) Buckley(keep the new blood flowing) Out:PJohnson CJohnson Brown Bate(inj) Jamar is not going well but don't think PJ can ruck against Lade. Like to see Garland get another run, especially with Neitz on the ground. Lose nothing bringing Buckley in for CJ, Bate or Brown. Holland has pace to negate Tredders.