hemingway

The thing is Moon that you get no return without risk. Their pick ups look good that’s all you can say. Our pickups look safe and reliable but they are not going to be a game changer. Individually the Saints pick ups are not going to bring them a flag but collectively they can make a big difference to outcomes. Lynch for Richmond was a game changer but there few of his ilk. Most trades are just okay let’s face it. Unless you bring in a star into a team that is already up there it’s shuffling deck chairs. In the whole good draft picks can maintain or improve the team’s competitiveness but it’s not going to bring you a flag. Lynch is the only one in recent years who arguably has done that.

A supposition based on the named players playing every game. Well it’s just not going to happen. What then?

Agree, the Saints efforts are exceptional. Also the Cats. Can understand the Cats having drawing power but the Saints are a surprise. Must have very effective powers of persuasion and been working on their targeted players for a long time. And have a well managed salary cap or lots of brown paper bags.

Interesting comments Jim. Your point is well made and reflects the fact that needs and circumstances change. The clubs I mentioned came to mind as clubs that had self contained dedicated training facilities, close to the city, and, in the case of the Tigers and Blues, located at their spiritual home. I suppose I could have included all the Victorian based clubs as Geelong are located slap bang in the middle of Sleepy Hollow (not so sleepy any more). All in all, a hell of a lot better off than the Demons using shared indoor facilities and training on open public park land surrounded by busy roads.

True. And we know its not going to be within spitting distance. Certainly not the MCG or Yarra Park. And I suspect not Gosch's. Public land in or near the city has become to valuable and coveted by locals. That's where Collingwood was so smart. They took an existing asset in Olympic Park and the old Pool that was not part of existing parkland and developed them. Arguably OP was public property under a trust arrangement, but only the athletics community got upset by it. The club has screwed itself by not acting years ago and just putting up with things. Probably no money at the time but also no foresight. Things have just go tougher. More expensive, more vesting interests and less available land. Richmond, Collingwood and Carlton are the clubs that are sitting pretty.

Again agree OD. The term supporter suggests that we emotionally attach themselves to a team in most cases for a lifetime. Support might wax and wane but it remains. It is part of our DNA, and how else do you explain being a lifetime Demon supporter. Human behaviour is all about loyalty to things that matter and to the sense of community that comes from being part of a distinctive tribe. It’s a reason why we are influenced and affected by the clubs success or failure. We take winning and losing personally and it affects our emotional equilibrium. It is also reflected by our strong responses to players who leave or get traded. As a kid, I will never forget Barassi leaving to go to Carlton because Barassi like Norm Smith was Melbourne. We were proud of Norm and Ron. We loved them like family. We don’t have the same love for players that we did in those days but it remains important. We still identify with the team and the players that form part of the team. The AFL, together with clubs and players tinker with this to the detriment of its fan base. We may remain fans but not committed latched on supporters. We detach and divest that strong feeling that the game and our club brings to us .That it is important and it does matter, and that it is part of our psyche. And we lose the sense and feeling that makes our code different and distinctive. But as Mazer points out, the genie is out of the bottle. Increasingly we follow a sport that has lost its soul to commercialism, marketing, product promotion, branding, betting and the avarice that is created by the marketplace and the lure of money and success. Fitzroy and South Melbourne were seen as failures. The AFL contributed to their demise and seized the commercial opportunity to relocate and rebrand them. But those old clubs had heart and soul and a bunch of loyal supporters that loved them and loved their players. Sure some of those supporters transferred their loyalties but many were lost to their new clubs and lost to the game.

Completely agree with you OD. Players and clubs need to honour contracts otherwise they become irrelevant. The system needs certainty and stability and not become a free for all like European soccer and American sport. If clubs don’t enforce player contracts it will adversely affect the legitimacy of contracts and also fans attitude toward their players.

Isaac is not going anywhere. Looks like he only wanted to leave the Hawks by cashing in with a 3 year contract on big bucks. The Hawks were not interested or any other club. So he will stay with the Hawks.

From what’s been said, the Club got what it wanted. The discussion is really whether the clubs ambitions were high enough. I think the club was realistic and practical. Sure another forward would be good but there were no outstanding options. With a few exceptions, the available players were just ok. We have not done too badly when you look at the other clubs and their trades. The strange trade for me is Frost as we virtually gave him away.

Agree. We have too many players whose hands go to hips after being involved in a play. We need players that can run all day. Langdon looks good, Hunt needs better endurance.

However, a sensible person who wants another job in the industry does not bag their current employer or past employer. No reason to do so unless the employer publicly criticises the person. Not the case with BM. BM has good reason to say only positive things.

Hopefully not Picket. He may or may not turn into a better player at the Hawks but my concern is that we can ill afford to lose him. I understand that trading players has become a normal facet of the game. But I reckon that the decision to sack Frosty sends a poor message to the players as a whole. That irrespective of form and performance you can be traded. Sure good players and champions get traded but most of these guys leave for personal reasons or get lucrative offers too good to refuse. But Frost was left with no choice because we made no offer, in short we did not value him or want him. Some folks argue that the players and managers have got too greedy, but given the way clubs behave these days, it is not surprising. As a player, I would see the Frost departure as another reason to put self interest before loyalty to the club. .

More likely we will have an unfit/injured May and Lever during the season. That's why sacking Frosty is a mistake.

My opinion only. The debate over Frosty is well known.. Sure there was Frostball but Sam was a member of team who all had a touch of Frostball. He was no better or worse in my opinion. Add to that his height and dash, his ability to kick long and willingness to chase and tackle brought more to the team than his deficits. And we have a group of defenders with chronic injury concerns. On an emotional level it is sad to see a guy go that did not want to leave the club until it became obvious to him that he was not wanted. I thought the manner in which the thing was worked through by Mahoney and others showed little respect or dignity. I was a fan so I have a bias. I am also one of those old fashioned guys that still value loyalty. I think that he had sufficient attributes that would have kept him at a club that went backwards this past season. Obviously, the Hawks value him more highly than Goodwin and crew.

Nothing that the club has done so far in this trade period fills me with any confidence that their decisions will bear fruit.

Very disappointing on both a rational and emotional level. A failure of the coach and footy department. So many reasons he should have been retained.

Footy clubs are very incestuous environments. I reckon 5 years is about enough before the law of diminishing returns sets in, for both coach and club. For a senior coach maybe 5-10 years if successful. Clarkson, Scott, Buckley, Hardwick etc are pushing the envelope. And Hardwick aside, there are many in these clubs that feel the others should move on.

Better Wise without catching the drift.

I did not include Lever only referenced May and Oscar. The latter for obvious reasons, the former, mainly due to history of injuries. Also not impressed with his body language on the field but entirely subjective of course. We will know the answer this time next year if not before. I think Lever has attitude and leadership written all over him, just needs to remain injury free. We had two players on very high coin earning their money in the gym. Last season, we played poorly due to injury and the inability for a core group of players to string games together. If the same thing happens in 2020 we will be further up the creek without Frost.

Agree on all points. I spoke to Frosty at the GF and he seemed very genuine is his comments that he wanted to stay with the Demons. Yes, I know, he was speaking to a stranger and that is what you would expect him to say. However, he seemed very genuine. If the choice was between May, Oscar and Frosty, I would pick Frost. May comes for the money, turns up overweight and quickly runs into injury problems. He bawls out Frosty in a match, a terrible look, something best left to a private space. Not leadership, simply hot tempered and belittling. The most improved bloke in the second half of the season is not wanted over three aging injury prone players or a bloke who has shown no improvement since his first game. My other concern is the way the club has managed the Frost discussion. Lever comes out several weeks ago and comments on the defenders but does not speak of Frost. Poor form. The club then appears to be mute on Frosty's future. Nothing appears to be have been said to Frosty. He is kept in the dark. For God's sake, as a matter of good people management and decency, the coach could at least speak to Frosty and tell him that he does not fit into his plans for 2020 and that he will not be offered a contract etc. Or if he is offered a contract that it will be a low offer A bit like Watts, the club does not appear to have talked to the player. If this is true, its poor player management. At least have the honesty and decency to be upfront with the player. It may be a dog eat dog market, but the coach and the club should have some guts and show some decency and respect to the player. It sends a bad message to other players and is not the way to foster team morale. Is this the way Richmond would have acted ? As per Max Gawn's comments, perhaps only some of the players are brothers.

Give me Frost any day over the rest of our defence. Height, pace, chase, tackle, never give up, durable, wants to play. Chases the pill and his opponents like no others. The rest of our defenders have dodgy bodies, slow, and prone to drop their heads. Who seriously thinks that May, Lever and Nev, will get through the season without injury and without missing games. And don't even mention Oscar. Sure Frostys disposal is iffy but hey join the club. His attack on the ball and dash make him stand out so his clangers look bad. Best and most improved defender in the second half of season. As the Tigers show you need players with dash and a bit of x factor that take risks. Always sorry to see someone go that wants to play with the Demons.

Went to the sprint via the David Neitz bar!

Just describing how I found him Sorry, not condoning the action. I liked him despite his flaws.

So many opinions and judgments made by people who have no knowledge of the background and personal/family relationships. Mick was a legendary footballer for De La Salle Old Boys. Mick is a decent human being and proud dad. It’s only a few years ago just before the draft that Mick and Toby were clearing away rubbish at home. As Toby was hanging off the roof, I jokingly quipped to Mick that he obviously had no fear of heights but that was not a requirement to be an AFL footballer. Their relationship appeared to be a good one. Perhaps that changed but it appeared that Mick remained in contact when Toby went north. He spoke regularly about Toby and his love for the Giants footy club. I got to know Mick quite well and I would best describe him as a genial and well intentioned knockabout character. He loved his son. Unfortunately, Mick liked a beer or two and that has been a major problem along the way. So what transpired on Saturday is quite sad for both of them. But Mick is not a bad person and the commentary of the incident does misrepresent his qualities as a person. Like many families there were relationship issues but that happens across the board. . Unfortunately, Mick’s undoing has been due to his problem with alcohol.

This is a possible scenario. However, foot injuries are notoriously difficult to pick up even on CT and ultrasound. Sometimes they don’t show up. Also the nature and severity of the injury and diagnosis can change with the effluxion of time. What Richmond picked up may not have been evident at an earlier stage. Also we do not know how Jack presented. It would not have been the first time a player downplayed an injury or discomfort.