Gator

My name is Robert. And I want an apology from your player.

Pound for pound is there a better one v one defender ? I thought he might get edged out this year due to a lack of rebounding, but he'd be just about the first picked every week. He won't come into AA calculations, because he just doesn't get enough of the footy and lacks the dash that stands out, but as a pure defender there's virtually none better.

Boy he goes to ground a lot.

I think @Clint Bizkit was the first poster who gave Petracca votes on the first page. He and Oliver were terrific. Thankfully, more posters are including him. Petracca had 25 disposals, 18 contested possessions (game high), 6 clearances (game high) and 3 centre clearances. 6. Tom McDonald 5. Oliver 4. Petracca 3. Jetta 2. Frost 1. Neal-Bullen

I'm skeptical about McDonald as a long-term viable forward option, but there's no doubt he's exceeded every expectation, including his own. I can't come at both McDonalds and Frost playing in defence as their kicking will crucify us, so for the time being McDonald forward solves that problem as well as being a legitimate scoring option. Right now, what's not to like.

I hate Carlton and I hate their [censored] supporters even more. I hope he asked him if he'd like to suck a big fat one.

I'm confident about today. If we bring the pressure that has us as the no. 1 or 2 pressure team in the AFL then I think we have too much pace and quality across the field. Oliver had 35 disposals in round 2 and was very important. He needs another big game today. We're 4th on the quarters won ladder and they're 16. We win nearly 61% of every quarter we play and Carlton 43%. We've kicked 203 goals for the year and should be 4th highest at the end of the round (passing Essendon on 210) and Carlton have kicked 149, which is the lowest in the competition and won't change after today even if they win. Put simply, our pressure, ball movement and wider spread of goal-kicking options should see a victory today if we regain our 'brand', which is outnumber at the contest, spread, and move the ball quickly. Jones, Viney, and Tyson are losses, but they really only effect a small part of the game. And it's not as if we won't have others in their respective roles. The 'others' probably won't be as good, but they don't need to be for us to win. They just need to play a role that gives us opportunities to get the ball moving our way on enough occasions.

OK mate.

Oscar McDonald wasn't up to it, which is why he was dropped. I've not overly complained about them getting games into him. And he's improved as a result. I'm for getting games into young developing players, which is why I've been for getting games into Weideman. Pedersen has been fantastic. I still don't rate him as a stay at home key forward and I suspect the club doesn't either. It will be interesting to see how his role develops for the remaining of the year. Watts finally pulled his finger out, which only vindicated my views of his hopeless years. Even then, I believe he has much more to give. Here's the thing and perhaps where we differ, I'm not fussed who rates my opinion or doesn't rate my opinion. Who cares ?

I couldn't disagree more. It would be a hopeless structure. I also said you can't have the kicking skills of the McDonalds and Frost together coming out of the backline. Let's not keep going around in circles. Clearly our footy views are polar opposite.

You put an argument, but I gave it short shrift. You said, "A back six of Hibberd, Jetta, Frost, the McDonalds, and Lever looks pretty damn good." I don't see a back 6 that includes 194cm, 194cm, 195cm and 197cm. It's way too tall. I don't see a back 6 with the McDonalds and Frost by themselves let alone them with the acquisition of Lever. It would be diabolical. And wouldn't happen. The McDonalds and Frost are suspect kicks under pressure. Imo, you can't have the three of them in the back-line together. Kicking in the back half is super important. I can see a back 6 that includes Hibberd, Hunt, Jetta, the McDonalds and Lever. That works for me. We often play a 7 man defence, so fitting Smith in would also work. If and I know it's a big if and probably unlikely, but if Lever came to the club I see Frost as the logical player to make way. Hunt and Smith, who is just as fast, more than make up for what Frost brings to the table.

No worries. I like to argue logically and dispassionately and I realise that's a bridge too far for most supporters. Thankfully, our list management committee will work through scenarios like me and not like you. Btw, there is room for sentiment, but for a player like Frost, who is already at his second club, and with obvious deficiencies in his game, he becomes expendable for the greater good. As for Smith becoming a mid ? I haven't seen enough, but on early viewings I don't agree. He's never trained as a mid and he's been developed as a back. He's getting into the 22 as a back. It's nothing more than wishful thinking to assume he'll become a mid. When I was at a supporters forum with Brendan McCartney in October 2016 he was asked for his best longterm team. He slotted Joel Smith into a back pocket. They rate him highly as a courageous and fast line breaking defender. As for Jones ? Perhaps you're not as keen, because you're a hoarder. It's easier to pass on Jones if you don't want to give up what you've got. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you or I think, what if the club is keen on Jones ? What if the club is keen on Lever ? How do YOU get those deals done ?

I don't see it at all.

How about in attempt to win a flag and build a dynasty ? So you think all of Hibberd, Jetta, Hunt, Frost, Joel Smith, the McDonalds, and Lever can all play in the same side ? All play their best footy in defence. All are best behind the ball, which is an easier position to play. And all won't fit. Also, how do you plan on securing both Lever and Jones if it was feasible to do so. It's a hypothetical, but one the club would love to be in a position to enact. Hogan, Weideman, and Watts are the future in the forward-line. Trying to convert Tom into a forward is unnecessary and not his best position. And he won't be needed there.

Tom isn't going to be a key forward long-term. He's done OK, but he's not a natural forward and will revert to defence in 2018 and beyond. Lever is still physically developing as a 21 year old defender, but he's 195cms. He's brilliant at intercept marking and his best position is in defence. He'd be the general in defence, wherever he plays, for a decade. Trying to turn him into a mid isn't going to happen. Yes, injuries occur, but assuming they're all fit and firing they're not all going to be in the best 22. If one has very good value and could be used in a trade you do the deal to get a player like Lever. If there's a possibility to land both he and Jones something has to fall from the tree. Adelaide and Sydney will want very good compensation, so what would you propose ? Frost would go a long way to securing Jones, which allows first round pick/s to secure Lever.

I know, which is why he has value. No point stockpiling what you have an abundance of. If it looked like we were Lever's preferred club should he decide he wants to shift back to Victoria then all of Tom McDonald, Oscar McDonald, Frost, Lever, and Joel Smith is at least one too many and potentially two. And I don't see the McDonalds being split up. So what is your solution if we were a chance to secure Lever ?

There is, of course, the question of what to do with the McDonalds and Frost if we were lucky enough to recruit Lever. My guess is that Frost would be traded. Oscar is developing well and at 197cms he has a tonne of physical development left. Splitting up the brothers is also problematic. This isn't to say I don't rate Frost's speed, but he's not as good a defender as Tom and is more easily replaceable. Joel Smith for one is as fast as Frost and at 191cm he's only 3cms shorter than Frost, who doesn't play overly tall anyway. Frost doesn't have to be involved in a Lever trade, but he could be involved to secure Jones. Frost has lived in Sydney once when he was with GWS and his line breaking speed on the SCG would be a weapon. Grundy is getting on (31), Laidlaw no longer gets a game and is short at 190cm, Michael Talia is finished, and Allir Allir has stalled. Melican looks a player, but that's about it in the key position defender stakes. The Swans are crying out for another tall defender. Frost has Leverage.

We don't always see eye to eye, but I read Binman's post a couple of times and could only conclude he quoted the wrong poster. It made no sense whatsoever.

As your position is shifting so is mine. Not about Lever, but about who perhaps is gettable and can provide some outside pace and be that connector we're presently missing. I think Lever is perfect for us in that he is going to be the best key defender in the competition for a decade. I worry about the NQR McDonalds and the NQR Frost. All three have some great attributes, and Oscar has come on in leaps and bounds, but the opportunity to get a player like Lever doesn't come along often. But where I've shifted is on Kelly. As good as he's going to be I don't see how we can get both he and Lever, such is the expense. My compromise is Zac Jones and I know I'm late to the party. It's taken longer for me to warm to him than others. Not being the most sentimental supporter I suspect my resistance was borne out of a desire to make good decisions and not allow any family connection to influence good policy. But in doing so I've probably marked him harder than I should. I still think he has plenty to work on, but his performance last week reinforced the view he's exactly the type we need running the lines. And I'm guessing he'll probably cost approx. $300-400K pa less than Kelly. So it's a more doable solution for a result that won't be the same, but still very good. They could obviously both resist moves back to Melbourne, however, Lever has recently discussed it as being a "life decision" on 5AA. the fact he's put off re-signing gives some hope. Jones would know that if he ever wants to play with his Brother he must come back next year. If he commits to the Swans for another 3 years the time will have probably passed. The general consensus is that he'll probably stay at the Swans, but once again, the fact he hasn't re-signed gives hope. He's a Mornington Peninsula boy who's never known Sydney and he's close to Nathan, so I think there must be some pull to come back home. Who knows if it's enough. Lever and Jones in the off-season would allow us to seriously challenge in 2017.

Yeah, Dad looked interesting with the hand tatts. Whatever it takes.

Jeez Lever is good.

Who from Casey did you think was equipped to replace Viney or Tyson ? We've got plenty of players in the senior team that have spent years in the midfield, but have been pushed out of the top 5 or 6 core. Players like Lewis, Vince, Melksham now get their chance and with Oliver, Petracca, Neal-Bullen, Hannan, Stretch, etc. it's not all doom and gloom. One thing I like is our speed. Hannan, Hunt, Garlett, Frost and Smith are lightening. I reckon our pace can really worry Carlton.

He's not even playing in the midfield at Casey, so he was never going to get a call up.

Not quite right. The Age: CARLTON 11 MELBOURNE 13